[Ryan G.]

I ride a 03 F600 C-dale and I am looking to go for a full suspension, spending around 1,500 with a couple hundred dollar wiggle room. I love C-dale frames and the lightness, do a lot of mixed riding XC and downhill but mostly a three times a week intermediate. Any recommendations for full suspension rides? And prospective shops, I live in Marin/ Bay Area

 

[dirtpaws]

I ride a 03 F600 C-dale and I am looking to go for a full suspension, spending around 1,500 with a couple hundred dollar wiggle room. I love C-dale frames and the lightness, do a lot of mixed riding XC and downhill but mostly a three times a week intermediate. Any recommendations for full suspension rides? And prospective shops, I live in Marin/ Bay Area

It's good time to buy a bike with all the year end clearances going on.

XC and downhill, kinda an extreme mix there. Sounds like you may want too look at the all mountain category.

There are some good deals on the Iron Horse Hollowpoint bikes right now. The Expert version is on sale for around $1400-$1500. Nice ride and that's what I would get in this price range.

You mention you're in Marin, but think about a drive to Mountain View to check out some blowouts at Supergo. But do your homework before you drive over there because the sales people there are infamous for being chumps and may not be too helpful if you have serious questions.

 

[Cary]

I second the Hollow point as being an incredible deal for the money. Take $50 when you buy it and change the tires for WTB Mutanoraptor 2.4 or Hutchinson Pythons and the bike will lose a pound right away.

 

[Ryan G.]

So going for something like a C-dale Jekyll 800, wouldnt be good? Yeah and for that XC downhill stuff, I meant to say an "all mountain" type bike

 

[Speedub.Nate]

'Nother suggestion to read up on the Hollowpoint, and at least compare it with whatever other bikes you select. Yeah, the Expert is a great spec for the dough, but frankly, Dave Weagle's dw-link rear suspension that Iron Horse licenses is a friggin' magic carpet ride, climbing and descending, and the IH customer service rocks. Performance sells them too, by the way, and they'll pricematch Supergo.

The base model Specalized FSR is a solid, no nonsense package that'll save you a few bucks, definitely can't go wrong there, but the parts spec is nothing exceptional.

 

[Cary]

My question would be why buy the cannondale? It is a single pivot design that is not all that great coupled with a proprietary front shock, cheap wheels and many house brand components.

 

[Ryan G.]

My question would be why buy the cannondale? It is a single pivot design that is not all that great coupled with a proprietary front shock, cheap wheels and many house brand components.

..you have serveral good points, I guess I enjoyed the framed and was pushed towards it by other people who raved about they lefty shock, the components are of course lacking. But again I am not advanced enough to need everything to be "top of the line"...the Iron Horse you recommended looked great and will check it out this weekend at a local shop, hopefully...any other suggestions appreciated

 

[bacchanal]

I biased (ride a tracer), but I would recommend a 4-bar suspension for you all-mountian needs. The VPPs are probably the current best, but are way too expensive. The specialized FSRs are probably the best/reasonably priced 4-bars out there. A four bar will let you climb (seated) relatively efficiently and will give you a fully active suspension for downhilling (breaking doesn't lock up the rear).

If you're leaning more in the xc side. Something like a trek fuel/giant nrs would be good. The problem is that suspension design isn't the best for going down. I don't know what it's called, but a million bikes use a variation of that design.

That hollowpoint pictured comes with a stable platform rear shock, so it would probably be pretty efficient pedaling as well as active on the downhills, but it may not be the most responsive on the small stuff.

 

[Speedub.Nate]

That hollowpoint pictured comes with a stable platform rear shock, so it would probably be pretty efficient pedaling as well as active on the downhills, but it may not be the most responsive on the small stuff.

The dw-link design is entirely non-dependant on platform valving in order to work properly. SPV was only added to the '04 lineup, but previous to that non-Pro Pedal Fox shocks and Cane Creek (all air damped) did the trick. I run a dirt-simple Cane Creek AD12 on mine and prefer it over the Fox ProPedal AVA; the setup guide from IH actually has users underinflate the SPV chambers on their 5th elements and Manitou Swingers to minimize any platform effects of ths shocks (marketing move just to add 'SPV' to the component spec, my guess?).

Point being that, even without a platform shock, with 5" mostly active inches of rear wheel travel, the bike pedals *beautifully* (this requires a few comparison rides with other suspension types to fully grasp the seamless lack of feedback under suspension movement), is an excellent climber without SPV bandaids, and provides excellent bump compliance across the range, from small baby heads to fast chatter bumps to big hits.

If there is a weakness, it's that the dw-link requires the rear shock to be aired up perfectly to achieve proper sag (~1/3 of travel). Too much or too little and pedaling will result in a bobbing, ineffective mess and an uphappy rider.

 

[bacchanal]

yeah, that's a good point. I was kind of wondering if that might not be the case, but I'm not too familiar with the dw-link design. it seems that there is kind of a trend to go with the stable platform shocks even if the suspension doesn't really need it, which basically limits the suspensions ability to do its job on the small stuff. marketing...go figure
your point about suspension tuning is true for many other suspension designs as well. they really should include a shock pump with the bike as it is more or less a requirement to own one.

 

[Speedub.Nate]

it seems that there is kind of a trend to go with the stable platform shocks even if the suspension doesn't really need it, which basically limits the suspensions ability to do its job on the small stuff. marketing...go figure

Agreed -- in some cases, this is true. The nice thing about many platform shocks is the platform can be adjusted into oblivion if desired, making the shock... well, just a shock.

your point about suspension tuning is true for many other suspension designs as well. they really should include a shock pump with the bike as it is more or less a requirement to own one

I'm comparing this to my old Fisher Joshua, my buddy's Horst link, my wife's single pivot Marin: they can all be pumped up a bit, or set up a little softer to tailor the ride to the terrain or the mood of the day. There is still an optimal range for the suspension to operate in, not as absolute as the dw-link.

Everyone needs a shock pump, but my guess is we're getting to the point where air suspension isn't new anymore. I'd have shock pumps coming out of my ears if one was included with every shock, fork, or bike that needed one. They've become a staple, like tire pumps or 5mm allen wrenchs.

 

[bacchanal]

Yeah, you're right, I guess I'm just old school. i've always been a coil spring kind of guy until just recently. In fact, I've still got a noleen nr-1 that I use on a backup bike (adjustable rebound anyone?). Anyway, didn't think about the $30 I'd have to spend on the pump when I switched over. I don't even want to think about the amount of money I've spent on bike tools over the years...they're all over my freakin house.

oh getting back to the original topic...I was going to mention that weight isn't everything. A well balanced suspension will ride smoother and more efficiently than a lighter and lesser bike over rough trail. so don't sacrifice suspension performance for light weight. an extra pound or so on the frame isn't going to kill you. and that hollowpoint has some nice components for the money hayes discs and xt for $1500...not bad

 

[Vulcan]

I'm also loking for a FS bike under 1500, I have the Jamis Dakar XLT 1.0 and the Cannondale Jekyll 600 Disk on my list.

 

[ShawnsJekyll]

Vote for the Cannondale Jekyll 600 Disc

My vote ($$$) went to my Cannondale Jekyll 600 Disc.
It has some shortcomings (so does every bike), but it's relatively minor.

I really like the way the suspension rides. Can tackle just about anything with it.

The 600 has the Manitou Black Elite shock - non proprietary if you are worried about that.

 

[FoShizzle]

My 2 cents in addition to great input already..

In the absence of truly knowing if a XC or all-mountain/trailbike is actually better suited for your type of riding, without a doubt in my mind, the Hollowpoint Expert is the best deal out there right now. It is only $1450 right now!!!!! Damn I wish I had the extra cash laying around to buy yet another bike I don't need. On top of that, not sure how far you are from the Mountain View store, from August 12-15, Supergo is having a tax-free sale so that would even save you a bit over $100 more!!

Having said that, no bike is a deal unless it is the right type of bike. Good thing about going with the Hollowpoint Expert is that (1) it will not be too heavy for climbing (2) will pedal well....especially since in 2004 the DW-link was entirely influenced by Dave Weagle as opposed to 2003, where it was not "entirely" influenced by him (my understanding but dont quote me) and (3) will descend well. As such, regardless of whether or not a more XC-oriented or true trailbike best fits your needs, the bike should rock.

Some other thoughts based on a very quick review of a couple of websites (for new bike on closeout/sale) might include:

TRAILBIKES

* Giant VT2 ($1299) at Supergo right now. Simply a phenomenal bike. The only theoretical downside is the 2003 Psylo fork but in general, still a fine fork and a great bike at a a great price

* Rocky Mountain Slayer (about $1600 on sale at Supergo) - though not mentioned on their website, I keep seeing this bike marked down at the Ventura store (where I live). This is a great company hand-building bikes (in Canada). This is a great trailbike.

* Rocky Mountain ETSX-50 ($1699 at Supergo) - same great company as above.

XC-ORIENTED BIKES

* KHS 904r ($1700 at pricepoint) - this is a full on race-bike if needed. This is an incredible price (about half price) for a full suspension bike that weighs about 23 pounds. This bike has high end stuff on it geared for racing. It will climb great. Whereas with a trailbike you can be lazy in picking lines on the downhill (comapred to shorter travel) you will have to pick lines more consciously on the downhill with a bike with XC geometry and shorter travel but the upside of climbing may outweigh this for you.

* Rocky Mountain Instinct ($1679 at supergo) - great company. solid setup. Not as good a deal in my opinion as 904r.

* Specialized Epic disc ($1649 at supergo) - great XC bike. this is a great price if you are into the "brain" thing (ie, rear shock). I personally dont like it but then again, I prefer travel that is more active but many love this bike and this is a good price.

Please note that considering used is not a bad idea at all but just make sure you decide what type of bike (ie, XC oriented, trailbike, etc.) you want before buying a bike just because it is a good deal on paper.

Hope some of this helps.

Cheers

 

[Speedub.Nate]

(2) will pedal well....especially since in 2004 the DW-link was entirely influenced by Dave Weagle as opposed to 2003, where it was not "entirely" influenced by him (my understanding but dont quote me)

Dave Weagle and Todd will both deny this rumor started by the MBA review. The '02.5 dw-link is the same as the '03 and '04 bikes, from everything Dave has said here on the boards. The biggest change was a new linkage that changed from the original 4.9" of travel to the two position link offering 3.75" and 4.5" positions. Otherwise, everything remains the same to the point that the '04 rear triangle will fit on an '03 frame.

 

[FoShizzle]

Thanks for the clarification

Dave Weagle and Todd will both deny this rumor started by the MBA review. The '02.5 dw-link is the same as the '03 and '04 bikes, from everything Dave has said here on the boards. The biggest change was a new linkage that changed from the original 4.9" of travel to the two position link offering 3.75" and 4.5" positions. Otherwise, everything remains the same to the point that the '04 rear triangle will fit on an '03 frame.

Thanks for the clarification. I went into Supergo yesterday and man, they had a Hollowpoint Expert with my name on it but of course, I left with my tail between my legs and could not justify pulling the trigger. It is always funny, or at least appears to be the case, during Supergo supposed "Tax-free" sales, prices are marked up to make up for this fact (this was the case on more than one bike I have seen recently priced lower). Anyway, they do honor web prices if you bring it up.

Thanks again for clarifying the DW link fact thing.

Cheers