build, as in automatically? or build as in show you the segments and allow you to build build the course over the top of them? Strava can do the latter.
App to manage private trails
I ride with a couple of groups that have networks of unmapped trails and every time we go out I record the ride on my Wahoo so I'm slowly building up tracks of every trail. I upload these to Komoot and GaiaGPS but neither tool lets me easily split the ride into individual trail segments such that I could plan a route by selecting specific trails.
I also have GPX Editor which does allow me to split a GPS track into segments, but stitching them back together again can be a pain.
Is anyone aware of an app/service that would let me build a route from saved trail segments, I'm thinking along the lines of TrailForks?
Thanks in advance.
I also have GPX Editor which does allow me to split a GPS track into segments, but stitching them back together again can be a pain.
Is anyone aware of an app/service that would let me build a route from saved trail segments, I'm thinking along the lines of TrailForks?
Thanks in advance.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Yeah, in TrailForks you can build routes using trail segments. They call it Route Planner. Obviously, you can add your "unmapped" trails to TrailForks as well.I ride with a couple of groups that have networks of unmapped trails and every time we go out I record the ride on my Wahoo so I'm slowly building up tracks of every trail. I upload these to Komoot and GaiaGPS but neither tool lets me easily split the ride into individual trail segments such that I could plan a route by selecting specific trails.
I also have GPX Editor which does allow me to split a GPS track into segments, but stitching them back together again can be a pain.
Is anyone aware of an app/service that would let me build a route from saved trail segments, I'm thinking along the lines of TrailForks?
Thanks in advance.
I'm slightly wary of using Trailforks to map these trails even with the private setting. The trails are all built with landowner permission, but on the understanding that they don't get posted on sites like Trailforks. Is Trailforks private completely private?Yeah, in TrailForks you can build routes using trail segments. They call it Route Planner. Obviously, you can add your "unmapped" trails to TrailForks as well.
I basically want the Trailforks route planner experience so I can set a start point and then select the various mapped trail segments to create a ride that I can download to my Wahoo.build, as in automatically? or build as in show you the segments and allow you to build build the course over the top of them? Strava can do the latter.
That I can't answer. I've never had the need to try to keep any trails I've GPS traced private or hidden. I know you can keep your ride logs private (public by default, so you'll need to set them private as you save them). But not sure if trails you add can be "private".... Is Trailforks private completely private?
There are various levels of visibility: https://www.trailforks.com/help/view/22/
(from the link)
- a trail can be visible (fully public).
- a trail can be visible with a red warning that it is Unsanctioned, not maintained and to ride at own risk.
- a trail can be visible with a red restricted access warning, maybe a special permit is required to access.
- a trail can be visible, but clearly marked as closed and marked do not ride.
- a trails location can be hidden from the map, but its name is still visible in lists for users to add photos and reports.
- a trail can be hidden (location and name) and only visible to region admins with "hidden" permission.
Dunno, never used trailforks...but I imagine if yhou want to keep private, then strava would be out... oh i guess you can make the segments private.I basically want the Trailforks route planner experience so I can set a start point and then select the various mapped trail segments to create a ride that I can download to my Wahoo.
maybe try garmon connect... you can make segments, or courses... but being gramin, only about 0.00000001% of anyone uses those functions
none of the tools to do this is necessarily going to be "easy" to use. You're effectively asking for GIS (geographic information systems) functionality. This is standard function for this sort of software, but the learning curve can be incredibly steep. Most of it is quite expensive, but there's an open source program called QGIS. The trouble with this sort of software for the kind of use you're describing is that the software gives you nearly infinite control over the edits you make to the data and you can easily get lost with all the options.
An older program called Topofusion builds some GIS features into a slightly easier to use package. It even has a somewhat automated function to "build a network" from a collection of different rides on different trails. It, too, has a learning curve that can be a bit steep. But less so than most full featured GIS programs. I've found the network tool to work well in some cases, but not others. If you have trails packed very densely into a small area, the network tool has trouble with it. If the trails are more spread out, then it does much better.
When it comes to USING the resulting "trail network" to build routes that you can then load into your GPS, that's a much more challenging prospect. The tools I know of that let you click segments more or less all rely on some amount of crowd-sourced public data. RideWithGPS uses data loaded into OSM, Strava uses data on its own site, Trailforks uses data on its own site. None is really going to be equipped to load a file that contains a "network" full of segments such as you built on your own in the above steps to allow you to then pick out stuff to build a route you wish to ride.
Topofusion, again, might be your best, but imperfect, bet. You could at least trace out a route you wish to ride and save it as a new .gpx. It's more tedious than just clicking segments that you want to connect. This is another thing that's standard for GIS software packages, but much more complicated.
What I've done in the past is built my own "network" of trails as above, then ran that resulting file through GPX2IMG to convert it to a Garmin-compatible basemap so that the network then displays on the map screen of my Garmin. I don't know if there's a way to do similar with a Wahoo device, but it goes part of the way towards what you want by at least giving you a visual of the trail network on your computer's map screen that you can then follow along. It's not routable (making it routable requires more steps and pricy software), but it works well enough.
An older program called Topofusion builds some GIS features into a slightly easier to use package. It even has a somewhat automated function to "build a network" from a collection of different rides on different trails. It, too, has a learning curve that can be a bit steep. But less so than most full featured GIS programs. I've found the network tool to work well in some cases, but not others. If you have trails packed very densely into a small area, the network tool has trouble with it. If the trails are more spread out, then it does much better.
When it comes to USING the resulting "trail network" to build routes that you can then load into your GPS, that's a much more challenging prospect. The tools I know of that let you click segments more or less all rely on some amount of crowd-sourced public data. RideWithGPS uses data loaded into OSM, Strava uses data on its own site, Trailforks uses data on its own site. None is really going to be equipped to load a file that contains a "network" full of segments such as you built on your own in the above steps to allow you to then pick out stuff to build a route you wish to ride.
Topofusion, again, might be your best, but imperfect, bet. You could at least trace out a route you wish to ride and save it as a new .gpx. It's more tedious than just clicking segments that you want to connect. This is another thing that's standard for GIS software packages, but much more complicated.
What I've done in the past is built my own "network" of trails as above, then ran that resulting file through GPX2IMG to convert it to a Garmin-compatible basemap so that the network then displays on the map screen of my Garmin. I don't know if there's a way to do similar with a Wahoo device, but it goes part of the way towards what you want by at least giving you a visual of the trail network on your computer's map screen that you can then follow along. It's not routable (making it routable requires more steps and pricy software), but it works well enough.
Gaia GPS has evolved to be more a system than just an app but all the options and desktop web console can let you piece routes and custom maps together. Over time I've used it more as a trail steward/manager tool but it still works as a sports (and other) navigation app.
I do load all my rides into Gaia, but it's not clear how I might isolate the part of a ride that comprises a specific trail and save that as a usable segment in planning a future ride.Gaia GPS has evolved to be more a system than just an app but all the options and desktop web console can let you piece routes and custom maps together. Over time I've used it more as a trail steward/manager tool but it still works as a sports (and other) navigation app.
Do you have paid tier where you can edit in web browser? Do you have a GPS waypoint editor? One or both might be needed.I do load all my rides into Gaia, but it's not clear how I might isolate the part of a ride that comprises a specific trail and save that as a usable segment in planning a future ride.
In my scenario isolating or making an particular segment is almost always about being a trail steward but I know those segments also become Strava segments and segments people ride and discuss individually.
I have gone Hansel and Gretel, leaving markings on trail so find my way back!! 😋 😂I ride with a couple of groups that have networks of unmapped trails and every time we go out I record the ride on my Wahoo so I'm slowly building up tracks of every trail. I upload these to Komoot and GaiaGPS but neither tool lets me easily split the ride into individual trail segments such that I could plan a route by selecting specific trails.
I also have GPX Editor which does allow me to split a GPS track into segments, but stitching them back together again can be a pain.
Is anyone aware of an app/service that would let me build a route from saved trail segments, I'm thinking along the lines of TrailForks?
Thanks in advance.
Some actually has been doing that on a trail network a couple of towns over, bright orange and pink spray paint on trees and rocks to mark their way...I have gone Hansel and Gretel, leaving markings on trail so find my way back!! 😋 😂
nice 👌Some actually has been doing that on a trail network a couple of towns over, bright orange and pink spray paint on trees and rocks to mark their way...
I have GPX Editor which lets me split up a track, I need to work out how to then convert those segments into usable 'trails'. A lot of our trails run between roads, and it's very easy to miss the entry point, so I like to plan a route that incorporates the road links and the actual trails.Do you have paid tier where you can edit in web browser? Do you have a GPS waypoint editor? One or both might be needed.
In my scenario isolating or making an particular segment is almost always about being a trail steward but I know those segments also become Strava segments and segments people ride and discuss individually.
Komoot will let me plan a new route based on a recorded ride, but because it doesn't know where the trails are it can get a bit confused, and it also doesn't help if I want to ride two trails that I haven't ridden before on the same ride.
This stuff is doable.
I'm going to reiterate that I like Topofusion for working with trails. The "Network" tool is an automated method to take a bunch of tracks and make a trail system out of it. It's not perfect and you might have to edit some stuff to make the final product "right" but the learning curve is less steep for this than full GIS software like QGIS and others. I still use Topofusion when I record an activity with my old Oregon handheld because the active tracklog gets split up and dumped into archived bits that I have to piece back together before I load them to Garmin Connect or Strava or whatever. The process to piece these segments back together with Topofusion is much easier than other options, too.
So, take your data and make your "network" out of it. Once I have a "network" I prefer to get the file format out of .gpx to make sure that I'm distinguishing between file types so I know that this specific file cannot be loaded straight back into my Garmin. I use .shp files (a GIS format that's actually a collection of files that describe different spatial components of the data).
Unfortunately, Topofusion's tools to make new routes (that follow existing paths) isn't good. You can use it to make a new .gpx file, but it's not going to "snap" to your trail network file that you made. You can create a new file and then draw out what you want, but it's going to just be freehand drawing. You get two operations, single clicking to draw straight segments, or click-and-hold to speed up and go more freehand (and sloppy). The GIS programs I use can build a new file and trace existing paths. ArcGIS doesn't support .gpx files natively, but has very good tracing tools. QGIS does support .gpx, but it's been awhile since I used its tools this way, so I can't say how it compares.
As for making this data routable on your GPS, I did a little digging to come up with the methods. First, a FULL tutorial on making custom maps for Garmin devices is here:
How To Create Garmin Topo Maps - GPSFileDepot
A big part of the tutorial is related to where to source various data (roads, streams, contour lines, points of interest, etc), data conversions, and various formatting issues. It's WAY more complicated than necessary if all you're trying to do is work with this single trail network file. But it can provide some insight about what's going on behind the scenes.
For taking your trails and making them routable maps on your Garmin, consider a program like this:
GPS mapping software Mapwel, GIS shp to Garmin GPS device
I haven't used it so I don't know the exact process. But it'll do the job. In cases where trail segments are connected by using some road segments, you might have to dig into the first tutorial I mentioned, depending on how complex the network is, how much of those roads you need to use, etc. If it's just short segments, then I'd just continue to trace/draw/connect the trails as though the connection was just a bit of trail. If the segments use lots of trail, then I'd consider adding road layers to the map.
Now, of course this doesn't help with planning a ride on your computer that you can then load into the device as a Course or whatever.
If you don't care about routing on your GPS, and you just want the trails to show up on the map so you can see them, then this program is probably easier:
Converting your gpx files to Garmin compatible IMG files :: GPX2IMG
I'm going to reiterate that I like Topofusion for working with trails. The "Network" tool is an automated method to take a bunch of tracks and make a trail system out of it. It's not perfect and you might have to edit some stuff to make the final product "right" but the learning curve is less steep for this than full GIS software like QGIS and others. I still use Topofusion when I record an activity with my old Oregon handheld because the active tracklog gets split up and dumped into archived bits that I have to piece back together before I load them to Garmin Connect or Strava or whatever. The process to piece these segments back together with Topofusion is much easier than other options, too.
So, take your data and make your "network" out of it. Once I have a "network" I prefer to get the file format out of .gpx to make sure that I'm distinguishing between file types so I know that this specific file cannot be loaded straight back into my Garmin. I use .shp files (a GIS format that's actually a collection of files that describe different spatial components of the data).
Unfortunately, Topofusion's tools to make new routes (that follow existing paths) isn't good. You can use it to make a new .gpx file, but it's not going to "snap" to your trail network file that you made. You can create a new file and then draw out what you want, but it's going to just be freehand drawing. You get two operations, single clicking to draw straight segments, or click-and-hold to speed up and go more freehand (and sloppy). The GIS programs I use can build a new file and trace existing paths. ArcGIS doesn't support .gpx files natively, but has very good tracing tools. QGIS does support .gpx, but it's been awhile since I used its tools this way, so I can't say how it compares.
As for making this data routable on your GPS, I did a little digging to come up with the methods. First, a FULL tutorial on making custom maps for Garmin devices is here:
How To Create Garmin Topo Maps - GPSFileDepot
A big part of the tutorial is related to where to source various data (roads, streams, contour lines, points of interest, etc), data conversions, and various formatting issues. It's WAY more complicated than necessary if all you're trying to do is work with this single trail network file. But it can provide some insight about what's going on behind the scenes.
For taking your trails and making them routable maps on your Garmin, consider a program like this:
GPS mapping software Mapwel, GIS shp to Garmin GPS device
I haven't used it so I don't know the exact process. But it'll do the job. In cases where trail segments are connected by using some road segments, you might have to dig into the first tutorial I mentioned, depending on how complex the network is, how much of those roads you need to use, etc. If it's just short segments, then I'd just continue to trace/draw/connect the trails as though the connection was just a bit of trail. If the segments use lots of trail, then I'd consider adding road layers to the map.
Now, of course this doesn't help with planning a ride on your computer that you can then load into the device as a Course or whatever.
If you don't care about routing on your GPS, and you just want the trails to show up on the map so you can see them, then this program is probably easier:
Converting your gpx files to Garmin compatible IMG files :: GPX2IMG
Thanks for the detailed posts. Annoyingly it looks like TopoFusion is Windows only, so not an easy option for us Mac users.I'm going to reiterate that I like Topofusion for working with trails.
yeah, technical map work sucks on a Mac. There are a few programs out there (mostly on the publication side), but when you're trying to do something specific like in this case, you're kinda SOL.Thanks for the detailed posts. Annoyingly it looks like TopoFusion is Windows only, so not an easy option for us Mac users.
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