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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=7578833

probably not yet, but sounds pretty interesting. wonder what sherwood would think about it affecting the integrity of the frame/headtube. also, with the shorter headtube of the ventana might not be able to get as much change in slackening the headtube...? i would guess that it would drop the bb a bit, but wonder how much with a .75 head angle change.
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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The one thing I have noticed with the Homers is their is always an element that is unhappy with DTs current frame design. Their is no pleasing them......I want this head angle or I want that HT length...blah blah blah. Well you do not have to screw around with those band-aids.....because Ventana will build you a frame with the head angle you want then your bike will not look like a science project gone wrong



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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
the cups have a centerline mark on them from what i understand. with a straight line from the headtube all the way down the center of the top tube and down tube shouldn't be too hard i would think.

i think it is fairly innovative to be able to dial in geometry to specific needs, wants, desires, etc. most people cant just buy a new frame every time they want to try a new/different geometry.

more options = good ...in my opinion
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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gnomer said:
the cups have a centerline mark on them from what i understand. with a straight line from the headtube all the way down the center of the top tube and down tube shouldn't be too hard i would think.

i think it is fairly innovative to be able to dial in geometry to specific needs, wants, desires, etc. most people cant just buy a new frame every time they want to try a new/different geometry.

more options = good ...in my opinion
Innovation is not always backed up with solid engineering. So you install these adapters on your bike then your frame developes a crack in the head tube down tube junction......would you then try to submit a warranty claim with the frame manufacture or just chalk it up to innovation? Now if you purchased a Ventana for instance and told Sherwood you plan to use these adapters then he could design the frame around these adapters.
 

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Ultra Ventanaphile
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mtnbiker4life said:
Innovation is not always backed up with solid engineering. So you install these adapters on your bike then your frame developes a crack in the head tube down tube junction......would you then try to submit a warranty claim with the frame manufacture or just chalk it up to innovation? Now if you purchased a Ventana for instance and told Sherwood you plan to use these adapters then he could design the frame around these adapters.
Come on Vince, don't you think you're being a bit harsh? While I agree that having the Frame designed to your liking is the superior option, Saar's work is innovative and pretty well engineered. Each headset is engineered to your specific headtube height. Since both the cups are aligned, there is no additional stresses introduced, the lever arm of the fork is still the lever arm of the fork, and quite frankly, Ventana employing the bigote gusset would give me more reassurance over an ungusseted frame (that rely soley on the weld for lower headtube strength). If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were jealous that he beat you to the design! :D

I'd go so far as to say, that if I had the $$$, I'd like to get one for my V1 Bruja and slacken it out 1 degree more. (67 currently).
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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Ciclistagonzo said:
Come on Vince, don't you think you're being a bit harsh? While I agree that having the Frame designed to your liking is the superior option, Saar's work is innovative and pretty well engineered. Each headset is engineered to your specific headtube height. Since both the cups are aligned, there is no additional stresses introduced, the lever arm of the fork is still the lever arm of the fork, and quite frankly, Ventana employing the bigote gusset would give me more reassurance over an ungusseted frame (that rely soley on the weld for lower headtube strength). If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were jealous that he beat you to the design! :D

I'd go so far as to say, that if I had the $$$, I'd like to get one for my V1 Bruja and slacken it out 1 degree more. (67 currently).
Might be a little harsh but just stating my opinion. If I were a frame mfg I would clearly state using these adapters would void warranty. The great thing about Ventana is Sherwood can design a frame to work with the angle-set. No not jealous at all......my little gig is not set-up for that type of product liability.

I've been selling my bushing tools since late 2007 and I have run into three types of people.

1. People that know what they need and how to do it.

2. People that do not know what they need but have the listening skills to understand advice.

3. People that think they know what they need and how to do it. Then screw things up and then want their money back because they ordered the wrong tool.
 

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mtnbiker4life said:
I've been selling my bushing tools since late 2007 and I have run into three types of people.

1. People that know what they need and how to do it.

2. People that do not know what they need but have the listening skills to understand advice.

3. People that think they know what they need and how to do it. Then screw things up and then want their money back because they ordered the wrong tool.
LOL!

Speaking of the bushing tools, still need the Fox version.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
just to add to the discussion what if you buy a "path' geometry, spend the xtra cash for it and then decide (say....as you get older) that you want to go back to 67.5 for your more cross-country pursuits... just sayin. you are stuck with it (unless you but one of saars headset cups and reverse it ofcourse:D )
 

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gnomer said:
just to add to the discussion what if you buy a "path' geometry, spend the xtra cash for it and then decide (say....as you get older) that you want to go back to 67.5 for your more cross-country pursuits... just sayin. you are stuck with it (unless you but one of saars headset cups and reverse it ofcourse:D )
I would get a different bike. It's a little bit country, but it's way more rock and roll.

Changing the HTA isn't the only characteristic that makes the bike what it is. The STA is different. The BB is low. The length of the bike is about 1" shorter than a downhill rig. It's stays very stable at high speed.
 

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Big Test Icycles
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mtnbiker4life said:
The one thing I have noticed with the Homers is their is always an element that is unhappy with DTs current frame design. Their is no pleasing them......I want this head angle or I want that HT length...blah blah blah. .
LOL, this is part of the reason Turner cant bring a 6" frame to market and the 5Spot changes every year. At times DT responds to questions about his mysterious RFX with "why dont you run the company". I met Sherwood at the Handmade Bike Show in Portland a few years ago and he spent a half hour with me talking about a 650 bike he had on display. I'll be ready for a new frame next year and I'm watching for the new changes in Ventana's line.
 
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