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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
All this talk about the new Intense trail bike has got me wondering. Can I get close to the same thing by just making some changes to my 6.6?

So I've been thinking about ways to lighten up my 6.6 for more mixed terrain rides. I love the Roco TST and VAN36 and big beefy tires for the really agressive/chunky rides... but when I've got miles to pedal up or lots of flatter, buffer, twistier stuff it feels a bit sluggish. I think my current setup is pushing 34-35lbs.

Is the RP23 much lighter than the DHX Air? Would it be a bit snappier and less wallowy than the DHX-Air?

Maybe switch to a 36 Float. Maybe a x819 or DTSwiss 4.2 rim set and some 700gram tires running Stans too.

What do you think?
 

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KRob said:
I've been thinking about ways to lighten up my 6.6 for more mixed terrain rides. I love the Roco TST and VAN36 and big beefy tires for the really agressive/chunky rides... but when I've got miles to pedal up or on flatter, buffer, twisty stuff it feels a bit sluggish. I think my current setup is pushing 34-35lbs.

Is the RP23 much lighter than the DHX Air? Would it be a bit snappier and less wallowy than the DHX-Air?

Maybe a x819 or DTSwiss 4.2 rim set and some 700gram tires too.

What do you think?
I played around on a ultralight builtup med 6.6 rig and it was something like 28-29lbs. XTR drivetrain, brakes and shifters, Mavic Crossmax XL wheelset, Intense System4 2.25 (maybe 2.35s) tires, Carbon post and bars, Intense seat, Easton EA50 stem, Nixon Fork, and DHX-A 5.0 Shock.

A shock and/or fork swapout is big bucks to loose weight. Carbon post not a good idea if you raise and lower all the time. Handlebars, tires and wheelset are low hanging fruit when it comes lightening up your rig. I believe you have a lighter bike as well with QR hubs up front, correct?. If you get a lightweight wheelset that allows you to swapout the hub endcaps to go from 20mm TA to 9mm QR you could use the wheels on your other bike as well.

I went from a DH/FR wheelset (Spinergy Fallines) to an AM wheelset (Spinergy Enduros) and the difference is huge in rotating weight even without changing to lighter tires (I'm using Kenda Kenitics Stick-E 2.6s)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
mtbbill said:
I played around on a ultralight builtup med 6.6 rig and it was something like 28-29lbs. XTR drivetrain, brakes and shifters, Mavic Crossmax XL wheelset, Intense System4 2.25 (maybe 2.35s) tires, Carbon post and bars, Intense seat, Easton EA50 stem, Nixon Fork, and DHX-A 5.0 Shock.
Sounds sweet (except the nixon). How did it ride?

mtbbill said:
A shock and/or fork swapout is big bucks to loose weight. Carbon post not a good idea if you raise and lower all the time. Handlebars, tires and wheelset are low hanging fruit when it comes lightening up your rig. I believe you have a lighter bike as well with QR hubs up front, correct?. If you get a lightweight wheelset that allows you to swapout the hub endcaps to go from 20mm TA to 9mm QR you could use the wheels on your other bike as well.

I went from a DH/FR wheelset (Spinergy Fallines) to an AM wheelset (Spinergy Enduros) and the difference is huge in rotating weight even without changing to lighter tires (I'm using Kenda Kenitics Stick-E 2.6s)
Not switching to air just to save weight but wondered if the RP23 would have a snappier, less lethargic feel to it. I've got a DHX-Air already I could swap for a RP23 so wouldn't cost too much. Fork would be pricey though.

I've already got carbon OS bars and Thompson stem so pretty light there. Not giving up the Speedball seat post so won't save weight there.

Suggestions for relatively light strong wheels. (Running Mavic XM321 on Hugi FR hubs. 20mm TA up front and 10mm Through-bolt on the rear currently).

Tires? The 2.6 Kenda Kinetics are what I'm running also. Not bad but I could go a bit smaller/lighter and save some weight without giving up too much in durability and traction. Also a very dead feeling tire. Slow rebound Stick-E rubber is great for super chunk and rocks but feels sluggish on smoother stuff.
 

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I've gone for a tough, but light enough for all day build on my 6.6... now a year old.

I tested it with a DHX air and the RP23 and much prefered the RP23, so went with that. Much snappier, as you say, made the bike feel a lot lighter and I don't think it was all to do with the weight difference.

I've got Talas 36 on the front coz I thought I'd use the travel adjust, but I don't so keep thinking of switching to Float or Lyrics ... some folk reckon the Lyrics have better small bump sensitivity.

Not a big fan of carbon... just don't trust it. So, EA70 bars in either a 50mm or 90mm thomson stem. Short stem for bike park riding and jumpy fun, and a long stem for all day epics in the mountains - Stretches things out a bit and makes for less work climbing.

I also run two wheelsets. I've a set of Hope wheels with DT 4.2 rims which are pretty light, they've got light 2.3 tyres on for all day pedalling. There's also a burlier set of mavics with 2.3 Maxxis downhill tyres on. They still roll and pedal well enough to pedal to the top of a downhill track, but I wouldn't want to drag them around all day.

Rest of the build:
Thomson post (matches the stem)
XTR Crankset (sexy and light)
X7 shifting kit (cheap to replace)

I like the look of the new frame from Intense, but I'm not convinced it could take the abuse I put my 6.6 through... big downhills and some uplift days. Some jumping too.

I've yet to find anything my 6.6 isn't a joy to ride on.
 

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for me, the RP23 was way too linear, and felt bad on stutterbumps. carrying roughly 1 lb more for better performance is worth it, IMO. i use a progressive 5th element coil and it's pretty damn responsive.
 

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Curious guys....what kind of pressure were/are you running in you RP23? In relation to your weight. Let say your 200 lbs....are you finding that you have to run higher pressure than body weight to get sag dialed in? Just kinda curious. I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out if I may have a shock problem...The ride seems very responsive/positive.
Thanks,
TT
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
stooo said:
I've gone for a tough, but light enough for all day build on my 6.6... now a year old.

I tested it with a DHX air and the RP23 and much prefered the RP23, so went with that. Much snappier, as you say, made the bike feel a lot lighter and I don't think it was all to do with the weight difference.

I've got Talas 36 on the front coz I thought I'd use the travel adjust, but I don't so keep thinking of switching to Float or Lyrics ... some folk reckon the Lyrics have better small bump sensitivity.

Not a big fan of carbon... just don't trust it. So, EA70 bars in either a 50mm or 90mm thomson stem. Short stem for bike park riding and jumpy fun, and a long stem for all day epics in the mountains - Stretches things out a bit and makes for less work climbing.

I also run two wheelsets. I've a set of Hope wheels with DT 4.2 rims which are pretty light, they've got light 2.3 tyres on for all day pedalling. There's also a burlier set of mavics with 2.3 Maxxis downhill tyres on. They still roll and pedal well enough to pedal to the top of a downhill track, but I wouldn't want to drag them around all day.
Now that's what I'm talkin' about! What does your light build weigh? Which mavic rims are you running on your burly build. I've got XM321s and 2.6 Kenda Kinetics with a new set of Big Betty's waiting to go on. Could I save much weight and gain some responsiveness going to the DTSwiss 4.2 or Stan's Flow rims and smaller tires.. Maybe 2.4 Nobby Nics or 2.35 Panny Rampages?

stooo said:
I like the look of the new frame from Intense, but I'm not convinced it could take the abuse I put my 6.6 through... big downhills and some uplift days. Some jumping too.
Yeah me too. I'm not sure it will handle the abuse either but I'll bet it will handle anything I'm going to dish out. I'm just thinking that if I can come close to making my 6.6 feel like the new trail bike in 6" configuration then I'd be pretty happy and would've saved myself $4500.
 

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@KRob...
Same rims as you ... Mavic XM321s Super strong considering the price ! This is my second set over 3 years. The first set got trashed in some pretty nasty crashes and still turned in the frame/forks ... but that much warp and I didn't trust a rebuild without a new rim. They're not too heavy, but extra strength adds confidence.

The bike definately feels more spritely with the DT 4.2s and lighter tyres on it. Not as stable in the air, or straight tracking at super high speed, but climbs better and you don't feel the weight on longer rides.

I'd say the best all round setup though is with the XM321s and light 2.3 tyres and the 90mm (or a 70mm) stem. This gives enough strength and fast handling for most things and still just about light enough for an all dayer.

@TrailTrasher...
I come in around 175Lbs... bit more with all my bike gear and water on board, and I run my RP23 at about 200psi. I does need a bit more than your weight, but I love the feel of it. I am keen to try a coil though.
 

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Stoo,

Thanks. I'm guessing that there is quite a bit of leverage factor causing the higher pressure. I was slightly surprised at the higher pressure initially.

I built mine on the lite side. It's comes it around 28lbs. I am running the Spinergy Xyclone Enduros. Magura brakes. Fox Float 36 RC2 1.5. Sram XO. and so on. Liking the set-up so far.

Thanks,
TT
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
mtbbill said:
Not a fan. It was hella plush but it was one of the most flexy forks I have ever used. It was not a confidence inspiring fork when you get in chunk/AM type terrian. I think a lightweight rider may find it suitable but that is not me.
Yeah, I wasn't really interested in the Nixon....just wondering how the light built 6.6 rode in general.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
stooo said:
@KRob...

I'd say the best all round setup though is with the XM321s and light 2.3 tyres and the 90mm (or a 70mm) stem. This gives enough strength and fast handling for most things and still just about light enough for an all dayer.
Thanks for the info stooo. This is pretty much what I'm running now, except with Van36 fork and RocoTST coil shock (which I like a lot btw). I'm still interested in a lighter, "spritelier" version like yours though for really long epic days and super G and enduro type race days.

Do you have any brake/disc alignment issues switching back and forth from those two wheelsets?
 

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My 6.6 came with a HV RP23. It did the trick but it wasn't great. I noticed a good bit of mid-stroke wallow and I had problems with it bottoming out on larger drops. Other than that it was pretty good. It felt plush and handled most of my riding w/o issues. I had mine set a about 170 psi which gave me about 30% sag. I weigh 150lbs. soaking wet.

As far as building a lighter bike goes I wouldn't obsess about it too much. Personally, I think having suspension that doesn't rob your power is much more important. That being said there is always room for improvement :)

If $ were not an option I'd probably look at the following:
>>Fox Float 36RC2 - I too love coil but you can't argue with close to a lb. of weight savings. And the 08 and 09's are supposed to be a big improvement.
>>TI Spring - Having good suspension is too important to be messing around with the ultra light stuff. Keep your eye on E-bay, maybe you'll get lucky.
>>Thompson Masterpiece - 80 grams of weight savings
>>Wheels - Be careful. Go too light and you'll be regretting it, unless you don't ride near any rocks :). I'm running DT 5.1's w/Hadley-Hope hubs and I'm just on the border of needing something stronger.
>>Tires - Another area to watch. Go too light and you'll be fixing flats all day long. I did the Stan's thing for 2 years. Didn't go so well for me. I'm running Fat Alberts in the Back and Big Betty's up front. I wish the FA's were a little stronger.
>>WTB TI Saddle - Only 235 grams.
>>Carbon Bars - Very controversial but I've been beating the piss out of carbon bars for years. The only bars I've ever bent were AL.
>>Stem - I found the RF AM stem to be strong and light.

That's enough. I better get back to work...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
woodyak said:
My 6.6 came with a HV RP23. It did the trick but it wasn't great.
I'm hoping it's at least "pretty good" and better than the DHX-Air I took off. I know it won't feel like my RocoTST coil.

woodyak said:
As far as building a lighter bike goes I wouldn't obsess about it too much. Personally, I think having suspension that doesn't rob your power is much more important. That being said there is always room for improvement :)

If $ were not an option I'd probably look at the following:
>>Fox Float 36RC2 - I too love coil but you can't argue with close to a lb. of weight savings. And the 08 and 09's are supposed to be a big improvement.
>>TI Spring - Having good suspension is too important to be messing around with the ultra light stuff. Keep your eye on E-bay, maybe you'll get lucky.
>>Thompson Masterpiece - 80 grams of weight savings
>>Wheels - Be careful. Go too light and you'll be regretting it, unless you don't ride near any rocks :). I'm running DT 5.1's w/Hadley-Hope hubs and I'm just on the border of needing something stronger.
>>Tires - Another area to watch. Go too light and you'll be fixing flats all day long. I did the Stan's thing for 2 years. Didn't go so well for me. I'm running Fat Alberts in the Back and Big Betty's up front. I wish the FA's were a little stronger.
>>WTB TI Saddle - Only 235 grams.
>>Carbon Bars - Very controversial but I've been beating the piss out of carbon bars for years. The only bars I've ever bent were AL.
>>Stem - I found the RF AM stem to be strong and light.

That's enough. I better get back to work...
Yeah, I understand the perils and drawbacks of going too light on an AM bike but I've been riding my HH100x alot lately and it just feels better on most stuff i ride. I do miss the bigger tires, plusher longer suspension, and slacker HA on some of the rougher/steeper stuff though.

I rode an El Guapo and an RFX at I-bike with Fox air at both ends which felt pretty good on both. Both bikes (especially the EG) felt a good bit more spritely/nimble than my 6.6.

Ti spring is a thought. Everything else is already pretty light on my bike except the wheels and suspension and like you said, it can get a little ridiculous (and expensive) obsessing about a few grams on every part.
 

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KRob said:
Yeah, I wasn't really interested in the Nixon....just wondering how the light built 6.6 rode in general.
I think that same lightweight build would work great if the fork was swapped out. It is not like the fork was bad, it just has its niche (I'm thinking long-legged XC) which is not what I'm looking for.

 

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Have to get it "Pushed"

I now run the RP23 "Pushed" and have to say it's like a new bike. The RP23 without "Push" was mushy, and forget about the DHX Air, it was horrible on this bike. Anyway, comes in at 29.4 lbs, and can handle anything I ride, including trips to Whistler.

Build is:
  • Talas 36
  • Monkeylite bars
  • Mavic 819 with Hadley Hubs
  • SRAM Grip shift and X-9 rear Der
  • Avid Juicy 7 with Dangerboy levers
  • etc.
Saved a lot of weight by shaving 1/2 off shock, lighter pedals, saddle, seatpost... but still kept pretty burly build.

I may still buy the new trailbike, but for now am very happy with this set-up.

Good riding!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
king2005 said:
I now run the RP23 "Pushed" and have to say it's like a new bike. The RP23 without "Push" was mushy, and forget about the DHX Air, it was horrible on this bike. Anyway, comes in at 29.4 lbs, and can handle anything I ride, including trips to Whistler.

Build is:
  • Talas 36
  • Monkeylite bars
  • Mavic 819 with Hadley Hubs
  • SRAM Grip shift and X-9 rear Der
  • Avid Juicy 7 with Dangerboy levers
  • etc.
Saved a lot of weight by shaving 1/2 off shock, lighter pedals, saddle, seatpost... but still kept pretty burly build.

I may still buy the new trailbike, but for now am very happy with this set-up.

Good riding!
Beautiful bike, king. I was going to comment on it when you posted it in the other thread about the new Tracer VP. I think that's what I'd like to try and do to mine. If I could get close to 30lbs and pick up some snappiness and responsiveness too I think the 6.6 would be a bit more versatile. I'd save the coil RocoTST, VAN36 and burlie wheels for those South Mountain or lift days but this looks like a better all-around build.

I have a pushed FloatR with AVA sleeve on my HH100x and like it alot (In fact I forgot I've even tried it on the 6.6 once eventhough it's only a 2" stroke). The pushed RP23 should be even better. Do you have the HV air can?

Which pedals are those? Acid 2s?
 

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Hey Kind....
Lovely looking machine. Pretty similar to my all day setup. My shock will need a service before winter... perhaps I'll get it pushed while it's there.

@KRob,
No problems with brake adjustment... they need realigned a little everytime I swap, but it's not a pain with post mount brake callipers. Certainly a lot quicker than swapping tyres... which I used to do.
 

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Thanks KRob. The RP23 comes with the HV can when Pushed, and the pedals are Acid 2. I think I will be going platform so am looking for a lightweight alternative for the rooty/slippery NW!

I think setting the bulier parts aside is a good idea. I also run 2 wheelsets, which includes the 819/Hadley combo as mentioned as well as a Stan's Arch/Hope Pro II combo. Both sets are run tubeless (Stan's) with S-Works Eskar 2.3 tires which helps to shave off almost a pound.

Good luck with your build.
 

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KRob said:
All this talk about the new Intense trail bike has got me wondering. Can I get close to the same thing by just making some changes to my 6.6?

So I've been thinking about ways to lighten up my 6.6 for more mixed terrain rides. I love the Roco TST and VAN36 and big beefy tires for the really agressive/chunky rides... but when I've got miles to pedal up or lots of flatter, buffer, twistier stuff it feels a bit sluggish. I think my current setup is pushing 34-35lbs.

Is the RP23 much lighter than the DHX Air? Would it be a bit snappier and less wallowy than the DHX-Air?

Maybe switch to a 36 Float. Maybe a x819 or DTSwiss 4.2 rim set and some 700gram tires running Stans too.

What do you think?
Hey KRob,
Just put together my new large 6.6 last night with a RP23 on it. I'll take it out on the trail tomorrow and let you know my first impressions after spending quite a bit of time on a medium with a DHX-A.

 
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