[BanzaiRider]

Sorry to bug you guys with my questions but this forum is where I find the best info...

Since the DHX does not seem like a viable solution for the 5-spot and my frame either, I would like to know if anyone has ever compared a Manitou Swinger 3way coil vs a Romic on the same bike?

I'm now thinking about getting myself a Romic or 3-way coil so your feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[tscheezy]

Not on the same bike, but from what I could tell of general shock behavior, it reminded me exactly of the 3-Way Air. Very mild platform, great dampening, nice shock. Nothing ground breaking, but very nice. A tiny bit more on/off platform at the same amount of platform as the Romic (not a seamless transition), but very nice deep-compression cycle control. Better bottoming control than the Romic. Nice shock. Keep your 3-Way Air instead though.

 

[BanzaiRider]

Thanks Tscheezy, so in your opinion, you would not change...?

Thanks for the feedback. In your opinion, you would not change a 3-way Air for a 3-way coil or a Romic? Even tough I really like my 3-way air, I was under the impression that a coil shock would give me a better ride, specially on the downhill. I find the 3-way air incredible for climbing or any slow type bump absorption but when things get rough and fast, I thought a coil would be quite a bit better.

Cheers.

Not on the same bike, but from what I could tell of general shock behavior, it reminded me exactly of the 3-Way Air. Very mild platform, great dampening, nice shock. Nothing ground breaking, but very nice. A tiny bit more on/off platform at the same amount of platform as the Romic (not a seamless transition), but very nice deep-compression cycle control. Better bottoming control than the Romic. Nice shock. Keep your 3-Way Air instead though.

 

[tscheezy]

"Better" is such a vague term. What would be better? Are you looking for less stiction? I didn't feel any in the Air version, but then SPV is simply technologically advanced stiction, now isn't it? Reliability? I have not heard of blown Swingers. Are you looking for more weight? I guess the coil could provide that. As far as I could tell the dampening behavior between the two shocks was very similar. This was not a true side-by-side comparison though.

Tell us what the high speed shortcomings seem to be, and maybe we can zero in on a fix. Personally, I thought the shock was brilliant at speed. The Air I rode was DGC's and he may have had some mods on it...

 

[BanzaiRider]

I've never had a coil bike so...

"Better" is such a vague term. What would be better? Are you looking for less stiction? I didn't feel any in the Air version, but then SPV is simply technologically advanced stiction, now isn't it? Reliability? I have not heard of blown Swingers. Are you looking for more weight? I guess the coil could provide that. As far as I could tell the dampening behavior between the two shocks was very similar. This was not a true side-by-side comparison though.

Tell us what the high speed shortcomings seem to be, and maybe we can zero in on a fix. Personally, I thought the shock was brilliant at speed. The Air I rode was DGC's and he may have had some mods on it...

It's difficult for me to really define what I'm looking for. Based on all I read, I have a feeling that a coil shock will be more plush and will perform better on the downhill. Everybody is very satisfied with their 5-spot, I suspect some of this satisfaction comes from the performance of the Romic coil. If it would have been sold with an air shock (like the 3-way), would it have received such good feedback! Why are all the downhill bikes using coil shocks? Basically when I say it could perform better at speed, I refer to plushness. I have a feeling my 3-way becomes less plush when going down versus going slowly uphill.

Maybe I'm just an idiot and all I'll achieve with a coil shock is add more weight! I would definitely make quite a fool of myself, spending a few hundred dollars for more weight!!! haha I could post on the "save some weight" after and become the ultimate moron!! hahahaha

Hey, thanks Tscheezy for taking the time to chat with me on this one.

 

[tscheezy]

Hopefully other people will chime in, because mine is just one opinion on this. Here is my take on it:

I think there is a lingering prejudice against air shocks (especially forks) left over from back when they really did exhibit considerably and noticeably more stiction than coil shocks. Coil spring shocks have tiny tiny shafts compared to air shocks and so can get away with a lot less seal surface area. Less surface area means less static friction to overcome. It takes high quality and snug seals to keep high air pressure in and this is a problem when parts are supposed to slide past each other effortlessly. Coil shocks have to keep pressurized nitrogen inside too, but they have less seal surface area to worry over. Most shocks nowadays have bridged that performance gap and once properly broken in, coil and air shocks are closer in performance than they used to be.

What size shock does the Banzai take? I have a "board loaner" Romic I could send to you to try out if you want. PM me and we can see if it would work.

 

[BanzaiRider]

As usual, good technical description...

I didn't know precisely why air shocks had more stiction than coil but your description makes sense.

My Talas air fork definitely has some initial stiction but that is mostly on the first push it gets when I sit on the bike. After that I guess it is still more than let's say my old Marzo Z2 or Psylo but it is very minimal. The 3-way air shock however does not have anything detectable. So in my mind, I'm not sure the performance difference of coil shock vs air shock is in the air shock "stiction". I was under the impression that it was the spring itself that made a difference (coil vs air) and the way the a small shaft coil damper worked vs a big shaft air. Basically, the size of the damper tube on a coil shock has much more space to work than an air shock since the air shock has to house both the "spring" and the damper.

Ho well, I'm such an ignorant in shock technology, I don't even know why I write all this which may sound completely stupid to guys that have real knowledge on shocks.

I'll PM you for the Romic... Thanks, that is very nice of you.

Cheers.

Hopefully other people will chime in, because mine is just one opinion on this. Here is my take on it:

I think there is a lingering prejudice against air shocks (especially forks) left over from back when they really did exhibit considerably and noticeably more stiction than coil shocks. Coil spring shocks have tiny tiny shafts compared to air shocks and so can get away with a lot less seal surface area. Less surface area means less static friction to overcome. It takes high quality and snug seals to keep high air pressure in and this is a problem when parts are supposed to slide past each other effortlessly. Coil shocks have to keep pressurized nitrogen inside too, but they have less seal surface area to worry over. Most shocks nowadays have bridged that performance gap and once properly broken in, coil and air shocks are closer in performance than they used to be.

What size shock does the Banzai take? I have a "board loaner" Romic I could send to you to try out if you want. PM me and we can see if it would work.