[Green Giant]

DW-Link bike?

I rode my saltamontes for almost 3 years. Loved it. NO ONE touches sherwood on build quality for full suspension Aluminum frames IMO. Just no one. From the welds, to finish, double bearings etc. The best. Customer service 2nd to none.

That said, I recently picked up an Intense 5.5. Build quality is not quite what Sherwood does, but I really, really dig the ride of it. I was shocked. The Saltamontes always rode very very well. The 5.5 is just a tad better in the suspension department.

Now, I know VPP patents would be price prohibative, if even available. That said, I suspect that Sherwood could licence the DW link, and build one hell of a bike. I'd snap one up pretty darn quick.

The DW link rides awfully similar to the VPP and it would be awsome to have Sherwood build one. I know tooling, patents etc, would run a bit more, but man it would be GREAT.

I know Sherwood wants to be loyal to his customers over the years who dig the stiffness and consistency of his products and the seatstay link... but would anyone be pissed if he tried a new frame?

Anyways, still dig Ventana, the service and quality. Just wondering what others feel.

 

[cruz]

I have ridden a few VPP link and DW link bikes and cannot really go with all the hype surrounding them. I doubt if you could ever make that design of frame as stiff as the Ventana rear end is now, which is one of the best things about my X5. The progress in rear shock technology has made many 'old' rear suspension designs work very well compared with all the new beaut 'this is the best ever' designs out there.

My thoughts only of course.

 

[Debaser]

DW-Link bike?

I rode my saltamontes for almost 3 years. Loved it. NO ONE touches sherwood on build quality for full suspension Aluminum frames IMO. Just no one. From the welds, to finish, double bearings etc. The best. Customer service 2nd to none.

That said, I recently picked up an Intense 5.5. Build quality is not quite what Sherwood does, but I really, really dig the ride of it. I was shocked. The Saltamontes always rode very very well. The 5.5 is just a tad better in the suspension department.

Now, I know VPP patents would be price prohibative, if even available. That said, I suspect that Sherwood could licence the DW link, and build one hell of a bike. I'd snap one up pretty darn quick.

The DW link rides awfully similar to the VPP and it would be awsome to have Sherwood build one. I know tooling, patents etc, would run a bit more, but man it would be GREAT.

I know Sherwood wants to be loyal to his customers over the years who dig the stiffness and consistency of his products and the seatstay link... but would anyone be pissed if he tried a new frame?

Anyways, still dig Ventana, the service and quality. Just wondering what others feel.

So... You bought a VPP bike and are advocating DW link? How did you make that link?

 

[Pauliemon]

I'm with cruz on this one. Definitely not as stiff in the rear. Don't get me wrong I dig Intense. I would be riding a Spyder (26" or 29") if I wasn't such a Ventana junkie. What makes a Ventana a Ventana is the way Sherwood designs them. Once I asked Sherwood what the secret of his design was. He told me,"No secret. I just design bikes the way I like to ride.".

 

[Ciclistagonzo]

Sherwood 3:16 "I just design bikes the way I like to ride"

AMEN!

 

[Green Giant]

DW link... and again this is not a knock.

So... You bought a VPP bike and are advocating DW link? How did you make that link?

Well, personally I feel the VPP and DW link bikes ride similarly, at least in my experience.

The VPP I am sure would be real expensive, if not impossible to licence. The DW link on the other hand... can likely be had.

Ultimately, this comes down to a huge compliment for Sherwood. No one touches his build quality in Aluminum Duallys. I'd love to have the shot at buying one with a different rear end.

I'm also damn sure Sherwood could build it stiffer than anyone. I dig the 5.5 a lot right now, but there are some small things that Sherwood could correct...

 

[cruz]

I dig the 5.5 a lot right now, but there are some small things that Sherwood could correct...

You mean something like introducing quality control during the frame alignment or painting stages at Intense?

 

[The Squeaky Wheel]

People were saying the same thing about Ventana & Horst Links not so long ago.

Don't hear that anymore now that Turner has jumped from the Dark Side.

Funny.

 

[ozlongboarder]

People were saying the same thing about Ventana & Horst Links not so long ago.

Don't hear that anymore now that Turner has jumped from the Dark Side.

Funny.

Oh yeah I would have loved one of those, but now horsts suck. :skep:

 

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Oh yeah I would have loved one of those, but now horsts suck. :skep:

Just like 26" wheels
:thumbsup:

 

[Green Giant]

true!

You mean something like introducing quality control during the frame alignment or painting stages at Intense?

Keep in mind folks I've owned 3 Ventanas... and enjoyed every one. Platform shocks dramatically helped the ride as far as suspension. Build quality and customer support NEVER needed any help. I fully suspect at some point another Ventana will be in my stable...

Regarding Intense... that is a true statement. In fact, my rear end was spaced more like 140mm instead of 135. Fortunately not a big deal. In fact, I posted about this on the Intense board.

On the flip side, I've always felt the VPP's rode well. Back in the day my shop carried Outland. They rode great even then, but they all blew up... even then we wished Ventana was building it. (I couldn't afford either back then, I rolled on my specialized pro deals). But the shop had a few loyal Ventana riders... as soon as I could afford one, I had one.

Heck, I waited a few years after SC and Intense were building them to let them sort out the bearing pivot issues before trying a VPP.

This post was never meant to start an argument... I think my posts throughout the years have been pretty level headed and objective (except that Tony Ellsworth is a dirtbag). Lots of good bikes out there. I just happen to be really digging how the VPP rides, would love to have Sherwoods build quality.

 

[ronny]

Interesting. I have not had the chance to ride a Ventana yet, but I have read many testimonials that the X-5 and El Salt are the best technical climbers and descenders that they have ever ridden. Extra links and pivots compromise stiffness, which would compromise Sherwood's design philosophy.

Keep it the same, I say.

 

[andy f]

Well, personally I feel the VPP and DW link bikes ride similarly, at least in my experience.

The VPP I am sure would be real expensive, if not impossible to licence. The DW link on the other hand... can likely be had.

Ultimately, this comes down to a huge compliment for Sherwood. No one touches his build quality in Aluminum Duallys. I'd love to have the shot at buying one with a different rear end.

I'm also damn sure Sherwood could build it stiffer than anyone. I dig the 5.5 a lot right now, but there are some small things that Sherwood could correct...

The only similarity i've ever noticed between DW-link and VPP bikes is that they both work well for hammering out of the saddle. Other than that, the DW-link design feels more compliant and neutral to me.

I'd love to try a Ventana-built DW-link as well. It would likely never be as stiff as the current bikes but i'd wager Sherwood would make major improvements w.r.t. Iron Horse's implementation.

 

[ronny]

Sooner or later.

So, what are you waiting for? It's on order, right?

I almost pulled the trigger on the 04, but really wanted the new design. I have been buying demo and used frames for the last few years and the price for how I want an X-5 built, is a little cost prohibitive right now. Keep in mind, that I am in Canada and the final price ends up being quite a bit more than the original U.S. msrp. The money is there, but I have some other things to take care of, so I am buying a cheaper model once again.

I have only been riding full suspension bikes for around 4yrs and I enjoy trying different designs and model makes. In this time I have owned a Cannondale Gemini, Ellsworth Joker, Heckler, Transition Preston, and a Turner Six Pack. I have been educating myself and evaluating the different designs, on my own terms along the way. Finding the one bike that I will keep for a while has been an interesting experience. I am trying out a Chumba Evo next and will judge for myself if the early hype is warranted or not.

Maybe buying a Ventana a while ago would have been the best bet, but like I stated earlier, I enjoy trying new designs. Sooner or later, I will give a Ventana a go. I can't be a tourist on the Ventana forum forever.

 

[steiny]

I have only been riding full suspension bikes for around 4yrs and I enjoy trying different designs and model makes. In this time I have owned a Cannondale Gemini, Ellsworth Joker, Heckler, Transition Preston, and a Turner Six Pack.

What were your impressions of the Preston? How did it compare to the others? I'm just curious.

 

[drumstix]

I almost pulled the trigger on the 04, but really wanted the new design. I have been buying demo and used frames for the last few years and the price for how I want an X-5 built, is a little cost prohibitive right now. Keep in mind, that I am in Canada and the final price ends up being quite a bit more than the original U.S. msrp. The money is there, but I have some other things to take care of, so I am buying a cheaper model once again.

I have only been riding full suspension bikes for around 4yrs and I enjoy trying different designs and model makes. In this time I have owned a Cannondale Gemini, Ellsworth Joker, Heckler, Transition Preston, and a Turner Six Pack. I have been educating myself and evaluating the different designs, on my own terms along the way. Finding the one bike that I will keep for a while has been an interesting experience. I am trying out a Chumba Evo next and will judge for myself if the early hype is warranted or not.

Maybe buying a Ventana a while ago would have been the best bet, but like I stated earlier, I enjoy trying new designs. Sooner or later, I will give a Ventana a go. I can't be a tourist on the Ventana forum forever.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the Chumba after the demo.

 

[uktrailmonster]

Did the Intense have exactly the same shock and equivalent settings as your Salty? I find that shock setup makes the biggest difference to the way a suspension "feels". The important things from a suspension design perspective are installation stiffness, friction and wheel/shock leverage. Get those nailed (as Sherwood certainly has) and then it's just a matter of choosing the right shock and dialling it in to suit your preferences. I run my X5 with both Swinger 3-way air and Romic Coil shocks and they feel quite different.

Simple design is usually the most elegant. I haven't yet seen a more complicated linkage that I thought would be of any real world benefit. They just look more flexible, add more friction, add more weight and increase maintenance to me.

 

[ronny]

A quality product.

What were your impressions of the Preston? How did it compare to the others? I'm just curious.

I had the first generation Preston with the steeper geometry. I had limited riding on it because of knee surgery, but it was a very nice bike. When you look at the machining and welds up close, it is hard to believe Transition is selling them for so cheap. It is definately a well made bike and very versatile. A little heavy, but it can still be used for any type of riding. The newer model seems a little slack for all day riding and is more of a freeride bike now, than before. I haven't tried the new model though, so, I can't say for sure how it rides.

The frame weighed around 8.9lbs or so, with the Romic. The thing was built like a tank. It was pretty efficient, with no real bob while seated and very stable at speed going dh. From my limited riding on the Preston, the faux design felt very similar to a HL. The rear end was very active when it needed to be.

Performance wise, the Preston seemed to be right up there with the other bikes I have tried. It is on par with the Heckler for a bike that can do everything. For bombing technical runs, the RFX is a little more capable.

 

[ronny]

I would like to hear your thoughts on the Chumba after the demo.

I will posting an early ride perspective for sure. It should be here by friday and hopefully all goes well at customs, so I can get the build going.

 

[tl1]

I'm down!

Dave Weagle and Sherwood Gibson both seem like such smart, level headed and down to Earth bike engineering guys who are pretty cool besides. I bet they could come up with something really awesome in the suspension department on a collaboration.