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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
on the Over the Line show (or something like that)? I caught a little bit of it, and I'm not sure how to take it. After reading about his comments here last week, I assumed it was somethign he made off the cuff to some reporter. I didn't realize he actually sat down with ESPN, presumably knowing exactly what the topic was. Part of me thinks he has an ax to grind, but part of me unfortunately wonders if there is something more to this.

I'm not a huge Lance fan--and I'll stick by my guns that innocent until proven guilty--but I do hope it's all BS, for the sake of cycling, and all Lance has stood for beyond cycling.
 

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i don't know what Lemonds deal is but he comes off as a very bitter man and i am not sure why, maybe he thought he would go down in history as the greatest american cyclist who ever lived.. who knows...

i am with you on the the innocent until proven guilty thing and i was wondering the other day ... how many drug tests do the cyclists take, how many has lance passed?? any clue??
 

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I caught some but not all of it - Behind the Scenes, something like that. Yeah, it was eye opening...my girlfriend has been saying that Lance is up to something...she's mad cause he left his wife and kids...but anyway..

I kinda thought that Lance should be looking up to Greg Lemond as a kind of hero instead of thinking he's better because he's won more races...and the info in that book seems compelling...

Only time will tell...

skinny-tire said:
on the Over the Line show (or something like that)? I caught a little bit of it, and I'm not sure how to take it. After reading about his comments here last week, I assumed it was somethign he made off the cuff to some reporter. I didn't realize he actually sat down with ESPN, presumably knowing exactly what the topic was. Part of me thinks he has an ax to grind, but part of me unfortunately wonders if there is something more to this.

I'm not a huge Lance fan--and I'll stick by my guns that innocent until proven guilty--but I do hope it's all BS, for the sake of cycling, and all Lance has stood for beyond cycling.
 

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You may want to let your girlfriend know that Lance's wife wanted the divorce because she couldn't handle the stresses of being married to someone that is such a celebrity and constantly in the public eye. Plus, he is still very involved in the raising of his children. It's not like he met Sheryl Crow and ran off to Hollyweird and ditched his family.

I can't imagine that he is guilty of doping considering the fact that he is the single most tested athlete in the world. I see the Armstrong-doping rumors just another way of the Frogs showing their resentment towards the U.S. Then again, I do like to watch the X-Files.

chad1433 said:
I caught some but not all of it - Behind the Scenes, something like that. Yeah, it was eye opening...my girlfriend has been saying that Lance is up to something...she's mad cause he left his wife and kids...but anyway..

I kinda thought that Lance should be looking up to Greg Lemond as a kind of hero instead of thinking he's better because he's won more races...and the info in that book seems compelling...

Only time will tell...
 

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so thnn why is there a question - every one knows you can say anything whether it be true or not and get away with it....there should be more severe penalties for people who make up huge lies to try to bring down people they resent or have money..
 

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well,

HGH is still undetectable, isn't it? And you can use EPO during training then stop using it weeks before an event and pass a drug test. The fact that Lance is tested a lot may simply mean the he's gotten very good at doping. If I won a TDF without doping (what LeMond's implying), especially after I recovered from a shotgun wound to the gut, and then got eclipsed by a biker who I knew/suspected doped, I might be pissed off, too. It's conveniently easy for fans to dismiss the doping allegations against LA, but they do keep coming up, don't they? And LeMond's still something of an an insider...
 

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chad1433 said:
I kinda thought that Lance should be looking up to Greg Lemond as a kind of hero instead of thinking he's better because he's won more races...and the info in that book seems compelling...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that somewhere during this TDF, I saw a brief interview with Lance and he commented that it was a shame that LeMond made those allegations because there was nothing to back them up and that LeMond was a hero of his (Lance's)..... I've seen nothing that suggests to me that LA considers himself "better" (in any sort of arrogant way) than anyone else......

Lance is a physical anomaly and he takes a different approach (read: singularly focused) to the TDF than anyone else does or has. He knows how to win the tour like no one else does or has. I feel like that is why he has, and still does, dominate the TDF like he does. IMHO, until someone else adopts his tactics, no one will ever match his performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Devil's advocate would say David Miller tested clean too. At what point does it stop being a Witch Hunt, and start being considered a seroiusly possibility? Again, I don't know, but Lance sure has handled himself admirable in the face of tall this.
 

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ketchd said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that somewhere during this TDF, I saw a brief interview with Lance and he commented that it was a shame that LeMond made those allegations because there was nothing to back them up and that LeMond was a hero of his (Lance's)
I saw the comments made during LA Chronicles (the Discovery sponsorship press conf) and what I saw was that Lance was very careful to state that he was not illegally doping. To me his choice of wording seemed very Clintonesque ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman.")

While I think it is unlikely that Lance is doing anything outright illegal, it wouldn't suprise me to hear a few years down the road that he was making use of questionable performance enhancing methods. Realize that the dopers are always trying to stay one or more steps ahead of the regulating comittees and testing procedures.
 

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sdneal said:
I saw the comments made during LA Chronicles (the Discovery sponsorship press conf) and what I saw was that Lance was very careful to state that he was not illegally doping. To me his choice of wording seemed very Clintonesque ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman.")

While I think it is unlikely that Lance is doing anything outright illegal, it wouldn't suprise me to hear a few years down the road that he was making use of questionable performance enhancing methods. Realize that the dopers are always trying to stay one or more steps ahead of the regulating comittees and testing procedures.
I suppose I could just sit back and say nothing when I'm attacked like this. Life is short, and I know that from my own personal experience. I have said it before and I will say it again: I believe that I am the most tested athlete on this planet, I have never had a single positive doping test, and I do not take performance-enhancing drugs. - Lance Armstrong

I often see people claiming that Armstrong is crafty, or "Clintonesque", with his language. It was easy to find the above quote and many others. I've always found him quite emphatic in his denials.

Re: Millar. I find alot of hope in Millar's confession. I see in it evidence that doping isn't as endemic as people claim. Millar claims to have only taken EPO twice, so it is easy to see how he might not have tested positive. He performed dramatically better than was expected of even a rider with his talents as a result of taking it on one of those occasions. He has always had a reputation for beng a bit of a whiner without the mental fortitude to live up to his potential. He was never tested as often as Armstrong is and has been for many years. There are enough cases of those who do test positive to prove that the test is effective if administered at the right time. And with Armstrong being tested twice a month they're certainly getting the timing right.

Frankly I've found the allegations of David Walsh and Pierre Ballester to be laughable.

The greatest tragedy is that the Tour might be deprived of great riders or even great champions because of spurious allegations that require investigation and force the organisers to ban riders. "Force" because of their self-imposed guilty until proved innocent rule.
 

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From ESPN article

"There are more than 500 steroids in here," he says, flipping through the pages to make his point. "All the drug tests in the world can maybe find 50."

Read bicycing.com the drug article, there is a link to the ESPN article.

Truth is beyond innocent or guilty until proven. An this particular truth is very hard to find.

LA may be clear or not, only he and his team manager know (and maybe one knows but not the other)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
One of the things I found startling about the program last night was that over 10 riders in the last I think it was 14 months (I could be getting both the number of riders and the number of months wrong) have died, presumably from dopping (not sure if that was proven, but they made it clear they were not from natural causes). That to me says dopping more than the allegations might deprive the tour of great riders, especially once Lance retires since there is no clear cut rider ready to pick up where he left off (some would actually say Miller was ready for the challenge).
 

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Count me in the "innocent until proven guilty" crowd.

That's based on the multiple tests he takes, but more importantly, his work as a fund raiser and awareness generator for his cause. If he's proven to be a doper, most of his financial support for his foundation will dry up. I just don't think he'd risk that - it's more important to him than winning a bike race. Yes, I know, the more he wins (without getting busted) the more money he'll raise. But, then the harder the fall would be.

I'm going to continue to say the rumor mongers are just that until there's proof. And I certainly hope I turn out to be in the right camp.
 

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skinny-tire said:
on the Over the Line show (or something like that)? I caught a little bit of it, and I'm not sure how to take it. After reading about his comments here last week, I assumed it was somethign he made off the cuff to some reporter. I didn't realize he actually sat down with ESPN, presumably knowing exactly what the topic was. Part of me thinks he has an ax to grind, but part of me unfortunately wonders if there is something more to this.

I'm not a huge Lance fan--and I'll stick by my guns that innocent until proven guilty--but I do hope it's all BS, for the sake of cycling, and all Lance has stood for beyond cycling.
This whole drug thing has been blown out of proportion by the European (mostly French) media.... They are pissed because an American is dominating their sport.

I think it is horse sh$t that Lance has to worry about people hiding crap in his hotel rooms, and all the other crap he puts up with...

Anyway, any rider who dominates like Armstrong, regardless of his nationality (unless French, of course), will be accused of doping, drugging, cheating...
 

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skinny-tire said:
on the Over the Line show (or something like that)? I caught a little bit of it, and I'm not sure how to take it. After reading about his comments here last week, I assumed it was somethign he made off the cuff to some reporter. I didn't realize he actually sat down with ESPN, presumably knowing exactly what the topic was. Part of me thinks he has an ax to grind, but part of me unfortunately wonders if there is something more to this.

I'm not a huge Lance fan--and I'll stick by my guns that innocent until proven guilty--but I do hope it's all BS, for the sake of cycling, and all Lance has stood for beyond cycling.
And what of Ullrich's 5 second place finishes? Why is it that no one has rasied isues with his performance? Wouldn't he be under the scope as well?
 

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We all know Jan's on drugs

Whether its strictly recreational is the key question. :D

1.Ullrich had his driving licence taken away after a drunk driving accident,
made worse when he failed to stop.
2.The night club thingie where Ullrich has admitted to taking party drugs.

Therefore:
I'd party with Jan!
and ride with Lance!
 

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dusty said:
HGH is still undetectable, isn't it? And you can use EPO during training then stop using it weeks before an event and pass a drug test. The fact that Lance is tested a lot may simply mean the he's gotten very good at doping. If I won a TDF without doping (what LeMond's implying), especially after I recovered from a shotgun wound to the gut, and then got eclipsed by a biker who I knew/suspected doped, I might be pissed off, too. It's conveniently easy for fans to dismiss the doping allegations against LA, but they do keep coming up, don't they? And LeMond's still something of an an insider...
If HGH is undetectable how would one (like LeMond) know/suspect he's taking it? Is this just a hunch by LeMond or has he been spaeking to LA's HGH dealer on the side. Point is where's the basis for his suspicions? If you throw a theory out there, you should have some facts to back it up.
 

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mergs said:
If HGH is undetectable how would one (like LeMond) know/suspect he's taking it? Is this just a hunch by LeMond or has he been spaeking to LA's HGH dealer on the side. Point is where's the basis for his suspicions? If you throw a theory out there, you should have some facts to back it up.
The implication is that everyone was on drugs in Lemond's day, just different drugs. Lemond virtually admitted this when he pinpointed the moment when EPO came into the sport IMO. Of course, his comments could have been open to misinterpretation in just the same way that he might have misinterpreted Armstrong's comments to him. Perhaps he just thinks Lance is greedy and shouldn't have been so succesful.
 

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question.....

I can't help but ponder this: Do you think that someone, after having gone through his ordeal and surviving a nearly terminal form of cancer, would risk using drugs - some with unknown long term health effects, and some with known risks of cancer - to race? Your thoughts?

I have nothing but great respect and admiration for Lance and believe that his success is the result of his amazing physical and mental preparation for racing, his natural abilities, and his strength of character.
 
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