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ballbuster
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Sounds scary

bhsavery said:
Are Frisky/Ritchey and TUFO still working on these systems? I seem to remember a post on them a while ago.
I've seen those things pull off the track bikes all the time. Have you seen the latest VeloNews? There is a crash pic of two guys tangling it up, and both lost the rubber off their front wheels. That, and ever try patching a flat on a sew up? Unless the brains at work figured out some amazing stuff, I'll say no thanks. I don't even know any roadies using sew-ups. I think it is mostly a track bike kinda thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well clearly they are a race only option. Apparantly the main issue Frischy had was the tire rolling off the rim issue. I don't know anyone either who uses them for training rides.
 

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chips & bier
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I have a Van Tuyl catalogue here

Van Tuyl is a local manufacturer, and they spec Momentum composite rims on their road and cyclocross bikes. Their newest MTB also has a pair of carbon wheels (see scan).

The catalogue pic of the bike shows it with Tufo C-XC 1 tires. I've never seen these tubes before, but they look a lot like the Tufo MTB tubes a friend of mine tested a couple of years back. The latter fit onany 22 mm hooked rim, by the way. The tread is a bit like the old Corratec Diamond Grip semislicks (1994?), with a diamond tread in the middle, and an occasional knob on the side. The Tufos my friend had were about 550 g a piece, FYI.
 

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pimpbot said:
I've seen those things pull off the track bikes all the time. Have you seen the latest VeloNews? There is a crash pic of two guys tangling it up, and both lost the rubber off their front wheels. That, and ever try patching a flat on a sew up? Unless the brains at work figured out some amazing stuff, I'll say no thanks. I don't even know any roadies using sew-ups. I think it is mostly a track bike kinda thing.
and... um... cyclocross. A good glue job on a wide rim will keep a tire on even in gnarly muddy conditions.
 

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WAWE
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dennis rides Scott said:
Frishy don't uses Tufo tubes. He uses Dugast-tubes with the ritchey-tread glued on them. These are handbuild tubes and are glued on the carbon rims like regular racing tubes.
Yup - custom made tires and off-the-shelf 650c rims were used.
 

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WAWE
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Thanks for playing... but...

pimpbot said:
I've seen those things pull off the track bikes all the time.
Oh really? When was the last time you... a) were at a track race, b) rode a track bike, or c) saw a track bike? And... when was the time before that?

:eek:

I don't even know any roadies using sew-ups. I think it is mostly a track bike kinda thing.
1) Most pro roadies use tubulars in competition. Having a full time mechanic certainly helps.

1a) In fact, some teams with tire sponsors (Hutchinson, Michelin, etc.) that don't offer tubulars in their product line-up will use tires from another manufacturer - sometimes disguised and sometimes not.

2) Nearly all top level cyclocross racers use tubulars - they can safely run lower pressures.

3) At speed, a front blowout on a clincher can be as dangerous as an improperly glued tubular.

4) Most of those fancy all-carbon rims you see are tubular - all-carbon clinchers are just starting to appear.

Have you ever taken a spin on some dreamy quality tubular tires?

Would I run tubulars nowadays? No.
 

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ballbuster
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Thanks for making my point

aosty said:
Would I run tubulars nowadays? No.
I'm whicha. I get it, but I wouldn't run tubular my self, even on a roadie. Too much hassle.

Okay, you have a point. I have never actually seen a track bike race in person, but I've seen many disaster pics of some poor mufugger who is in mid-stack with a sew-up tire wrapped around his fork. Maybe my view is skewed by the popular bike media, asI have seen this basic senario play out a bunch of times in pictorials.

OTOH, there must be some kind of monster advantage to outweigh that negative, eh?
 

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And road tires as well... I run them for training with sealent in them and don't even carry a pump. Tufo vulcanizes the inner tube to the casing, so the only puncture you can get is a small cut, which is instantly sealed. It works. But it's to heavy (370 gr with sealent, 23 mm) for competiton...

-b
 

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Recovering couch patato
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Guys, I used to be the TUFO distributor around here, I got into it mostly because of the tubular clincher technology.
Although the higher-end tubulars (and ~clinchers) are really good, difference is not that big over tubes, let alone no-tubes.

On my CX racer I've got Zipp's and 34mm Tufo's. Totally overkill gluejob, no such thing as too stuck, I lost many tubs in my firt rides. I hope to wear out the ones on there now, they won't come off easily, working with tubs is just a pain, nothing less.

I am now seriously wondering... How would my present setup of Zipps and 34mm Tufo's compared to a set of stan's Olympic's with 35mm Racing Ralphs mounted tubeless? My gut says the RR's will roll faster. The Zipp setup may be a tad lighter, and better in deep mud.

Over here in the NL some pro level XC racers use Dugasts with RR profiles. They don't use latex in them though, because they do flat more often than others.

What I could get hot for would be extra wide 700c tubular rims, And Dugasts with RR treads. I could use 26x2.25" tires and have them made into 29x2.0's.
All this talk about rolling resistance while getting adult rim already cuts 10% off any tire's resistance, and that's just on smooth pavement. On rough trails, it's even more efficient.

Frishy's setup is actually quite heavy, because he's using almost 2 tires on each wheel. A good 29" setup with Stan's 392g rims and high-end tires can only be faster in practice. Too bad that man is limited partly by what he THINKS a setup will perform like.

I vote for wide clincher rims to get a no-tubes mounted tire to perform better, more stable.
 

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WAWE
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pimpbot said:
Okay, you have a point. I have never actually seen a track.....
Then why did you make such a bold knowledgeable-sounding statement? You're just contributing to the misconception... :rolleyes: :confused: :eek:

"I've seen those things pull off the track bikes all the time."
 

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aosty said:
I've been curious about the roadie Tufo Clinchulars... lemme know how they are.
I got a pair of 23 mm model (320-325 gr) for testing two years ago. I mounted them on Open Pros. I strapped a foldable tire + tube on the saddle in case of a puncture. I got the first flat after 1500 km, but since Tufo tubulars have the inner tube vulcanized to the casing, I managed to get home (~35 km) with only putting air in the tire once.

Then I used the Tufo sealing stuff, mounted the sealed one on the rear, and only took a pump with me for the rides after that. After a whole season of training on this setup, I got another flat - on the front. I got home again easily, and put sealent in the other tire. (They now weight 350-360 gr.) Since then I don't even take a pump with me, once I saw some sealent tríing to make its way out, lost about 10 psi, but thats all.

Traction, cornering is good, but it does not have the classic tubular feel. I notice that it weights more too than than the S22 on my tubular wheelset.

I know you pay a lot for Tufo, for us they're the cheapest tires around, and some people still use Tufo tubulars, because they cost 1/4 of a Michelein Race!

-b
 

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From I road bike perspective, tubulars used to offer a superior ride and reduced weight. I used them on my first road bike (used) and they really did have a nice ride. Modern technology has improved clinchers and tubes to the point where the advantages offered by a tubular are close to nil. In addition, the good ones can have car tire prices. They're certainly not worth the extra hassle, IMHO. I rarely see anyone using them anymore.

As for mountain bikes, the thought of having to buy a new tire evertime I flatted...
 

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Recovering couch patato
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I'm still working through my old Tufo stock, selling them to locals at under dealer cost. The 22mm Hi-Composite Carbon is my favorite, it held well in the crits I did with it.

I bet I could get much more life out of retired tubulars. I've found that if thin diluted sealent doesn't mend a puncture, often a small amount of very thick sealent does. Not having innertube and casing vulcanized together could make things really messy, I now first see...most of the sealent would flow between innerttube and casing... probably best to first try the undilted mold builder on punctures?
 
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