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Bodhisattva
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm posting this to share my experience /frustration, to see if others have too, and find possible common denominators and fixes.

For the life of me, I cannot remove a Bontrager SE4 27.5 tire from my e-13 27.50carbon rim, IW 31 mm. I've been biking my entire life, thought I'd seen and experienced every possible tire change scenario, but has thrown me for a loop. Usually, I remove tires by hand and don't need levers.

I've now suffered through this with two separate Bontrager tires. No amount of force or technique removed the tire, and I resorted to slicing the tire with a knife and cutting the kevlar bead fibers. Even with the tire sliced upon, i was unable to pry away the tire from the sidewall using pliers. That tire bead just seems glued to the depressed channel within the rim.

Prior to sacrificing the tire, I tried all the usual tricks. Various tire levers, Motion probead tire levers, even screwdrivers, without success. The bead just won't budge off the sidewall. I used all kinds of leverage techniques, clamps, vises, etc....

I used Stan's as sealant the first time. The second time I used E-13's tire plasma. Results were the same. Rim tape is E-13's OEM which is thin like Stan's tape (not like guerilla tape)

Removing other tires from these rims is a bit harder than I've experienced with other rims in the past, but I've otherwise been successful with standard Pedros' tire levers after some additional muscle.


So, my technique may need refining, but I think there's some weird interplay between this tire and this rim. Given challenges with other tires (which I eventually overcame), I'm at the point of replacing the rim.

Please post away if anyone has similar experiences or any other tricks to try.
 

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Having trouble breaking the bead or getting it to flex enough to come off the rim?

I've helped a buddy who couldn't break the bead on his Bonty's as it turned out that the sealant basically glued the bead to the rim. A large pair or channel lock pliers did the trick in that case.

As I'm sure you already know a nice warm tire is much easier to manipulate. Set it out in the sun for a while vs working on it after overnight in a cold garage.
 

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Probably not the right use for this tool, but the park tool PTS-1 tool is pretty handy for removing tricky tires. At $60, might be worth asking a shop to borrow it or see if they can get it off for you. If it works, consider buying one from them.

Simple green helps seat tricky tires, would imagine that could help unseat one too if you can work it in a little.
 

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Bodhisattva
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Probably not the right use for this tool, but the park tool PTS-1 tool is pretty handy for removing tricky tires. At $60, might be worth asking a shop to borrow it or see if they can get it off for you. If it works, consider buying one from them.

Simple green helps seat tricky tires, would imagine that could help unseat one too if you can work it in a little.
I sprayed goo gone and let it sit, hoping it would dissolve any glue, without success. I'll try simple green next time. The Park tool looks like it's for seating, not unseating. I don't think it would have helped, since vises and pliers didn't.

Thanks for the input
 

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Bodhisattva
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Having trouble breaking the bead or getting it to flex enough to come off the rim?

I've helped a buddy who couldn't break the bead on his Bonty's as it turned out that the sealant basically glued the bead to the rim. A large pair or channel lock pliers did the trick in that case.

As I'm sure you already know a nice warm tire is much easier to manipulate. Set it out in the sun for a while vs working on it after overnight in a cold garage.
Yes, tire was glued to the rim. I couldn't unseat it. I couldn't even wedge a screwdriver between sidewall and tire bead. Pliers didn't help, and I left it in the sun.

thanks
 

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I had this happen recently with an e13 TRS. I got as much soapy water around the bead as possible and placed the wheel on top of a 5 gallon bucket and pushed the tire down to the center of the rim.
 

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I had the same problem though probably not as bad as yours. I came up with a similar technique as Jeremy3220. My workbench has a 2X4 brace between the legs about 18" off the ground. I hold the wheel parallel to the ground and place the tire on the 2X4 making sure to keep the rim up against it firmly. Then I use my foot to press the rim down toward the ground. The tire slides right into the center channel. This has become my go to method now.
 

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Had this issue with Bontrager wheels with the TLR strip and Schwalbe tires. Schwalbes run tight to begin with already. I used Bontrager sealant, which is surprisingly more sticky than Stan's. Eventually, the bead, plastic strip, and sealant bonded together. It was impossible to remove by hand. Tried all the techniques like standing on the semi-inflated tire, vice grip, rolling the tire, wood blocks, etc. I ended up cutting the tire because I didn't want to stress the carbon wheels, spokes, and hubs by exerting uncommon force through the wheel. Luckily for me, it was time to change tires anyway. When I cut the tire off, I literally had to pull the carcass of the tire off the rim with a lot of force since it was glued together so well.
 

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Bodhisattva
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Had this issue with Bontrager wheels with the TLR strip and Schwalbe tires. Schwalbes run tight to begin with already. I used Bontrager sealant, which is surprisingly more sticky than Stan's. Eventually, the bead, plastic strip, and sealant bonded together. It was impossible to remove by hand. Tried all the techniques like standing on the semi-inflated tire, vice grip, rolling the tire, wood blocks, etc. I ended up cutting the tire because I didn't want to stress the carbon wheels, spokes, and hubs by exerting uncommon force through the wheel. Luckily for me, it was time to change tires anyway. When I cut the tire off, I literally had to pull the carcass of the tire off the rim with a lot of force since it was glued together so well.
Yes! This is essentially what I've been through.

Interestingly, I mounted a brand new Bonty onto my e-13 rims and inflated, without sealant. Almost immediately, it was very very difficult to remove. So I'm convinced there's some interplay between this particular tire and the rim shape.

Because I've struggled with other tires with these rims, although not to the same degree, I've decided to replace the rim. Drastic, but I feel necessary.

Since posting, a friend of mine, extremely experienced in the bike world, told me he's had similar difficulties with newer Enve rims. So something is going on with rim and tire manufacturers, that needs to be worked out. Perhaps....
 

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Yes! This is essentially what I've been through.

Interestingly, I mounted a brand new Bonty onto my e-13 rims and inflated, without sealant. Almost immediately, it was very very difficult to remove. So I'm convinced there's some interplay between this particular tire and the rim shape.

Because I've struggled with other tires with these rims, although not to the same degree, I've decided to replace the rim. Drastic, but I feel necessary.

Since posting, a friend of mine, extremely experienced in the bike world, told me he's had similar difficulties with newer Enve rims. So something is going on with rim and tire manufacturers, that needs to be worked out. Perhaps....
I think that some tires are just looser and some are tighter than others. For instance, I have a set of WTB tires I mounted on the same carbon Bontrager wheelset and they did not want to seat the bead without sealant. They're a looser fit than normal. Schwalbes are known for being tight and will seat the bead without any sealant at all and still hold air overnight. I have some Bontrager tires and I found them to be middle of the road when it comes to how tight they are. Obviously, this is all on the same rim. I suppose rims also have some play when it comes to tightness and tolerances. A few microns here and there can result in a tighter or looser bead.
 

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Every new set of tires I buy, they are harder to get on/off. Still, nothing like the bonding that has happened to you.

I am resigned that current Maxxis set will need to be cut off, so will run them until there is little left.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Group ride last weekend and one of the riders flatted about 5 mi from the end, some others in the group tried to help him get the tire off and were unable to unseat the bead. Waited for a while and then rode back a mile to check on him, he was trying to jog with his bike because he couldn’t get the tire off. I asked him to let me try and in a few seconds I had stepped on the bead with my bare foot and popped it off. He was completely mystified. I tried a lot on my fat tires a few years ago before I figured that one out. I can see though how some tires may be unreasonably tight on the rim. In those cases, you better have a good plug kit and not even that will work every time. The other thing that wasn’t helping was that this guy didn’t know you have to replenish sealant, so it was a season old and it glued (the dry and semi dry sealant) the tire casing together when trying to remove. That makes it a lot tougher.
 

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Bodhisattva
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would be careful with chemicals and carbon rims.
worried about the resin?

I share that concern but desperate times called for desperate measures and figure goo gone is fairly gentle. I've also used it to remove rim tape residue in the past and never saw or felt any adverse consequence from that. But I hear you.

Jayem, yes, I always ride with a plug kit. No amount of stomping was going to get this tire off. Sealant was applied in early May 2019. For me, it's two times with same tire/rim combo (bonty, e13 carbon) that I've had to cut off the tire
 

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This place needs an enema
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Your first problem was running 27.5"...

;)

I like that bead/rim interfaces are finally getting this tight. Makes airing up tubeless easy, more or less eliminates burps regardless of pressure.

The tradeoff is that you have to use your feet to get the initial bit of the bead broken free. After that it's business as usual.
 

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Bodhisattva
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The tradeoff is that you have to use your feet to get the initial bit of the bead broken free. After that it's business as usual.
Agreed, no burping was taking place.

But it's hubris to think that stomping on this particular scenario was going to get the tire off. Even with kevlar bead sliced in half, I had to use pliers to free it.
 

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This place needs an enema
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Agreed, no burping was taking place.

But it's hubris to think that stomping on this particular scenario was going to get the tire off. Even with kevlar bead sliced in half, I had to use pliers to free it.
Haven't used that combo so it's possible it wouldn't work.

But you can exert more force/leverage on the sidewall with your foot than just digging at the bead with pliers.
 
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