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BM and PQ Trail Rep
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Bet that got your attention.

I just got back from the trails. I ran into Ranger Washington and had a long chat with her.

Effective today (12/12/2008) ALLTUNNEL TRAILS ARE OFF LIMIT!
Notice I did not say closed. These limits are in place until the trail presentation in January. The rangers will be out in force starting tonight issuing warnings and ultimately trespassing summons.

There will also be signage posted at all the major entrances outlining only the legal trails.

Ranger Washington will be releasing an official notice to us today. She was very clear to me that these are temporary measures until the committees complete the planning. None of the trail coverage could not be undone if they deem a trail part of the plan. Right now we are limited to the existing access road only.

Now before you go off the deep end about "we should have not said anything and the trails would have remained" use a little logic. There are too many people who knew about these trails before they were "outed". Sooner or later they would have been found out about. Since all these trails are not sanctioned, they are illegal. The most logical path would have been to close them. This is not what is happening now.

The trail report (what ever you want to call it) is due in January. While we will loose many trails, the fact remains that legally none of them should have existed. The truth is we will come out with a handful of trails that are now recognized by the Rangers, CAC, and others as legal, sustainable trails.

For now, please heed the trail limits. This is not a time to make any more bad waves with the stewards.

Sorry for the temporary bad news but Janauary is our month.
 

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The Cage Just Got A Little Smaller

Boy if this doesn't convince people that we need to band together under one banner then we will continue to be picked apart. The presentation in Sept was not in vain. Important people were there watching and listening. They saw a very impressive presentation and it is what got us to at least this point. Had not the unfortunate event with the canopy cutting occurred we would have had at least one more month to ride until the decision process was over.
But they probably feel like things have spiraled out of control over the bush whacking. They themselves are probably worried that if any more changes were to happen down there even they would not be able to accept the area as determined under the mitigation definitions.
I hope anyone not a member of SDMBA reconsider how effective they are going to be by themselves in protecting their ability to mtn bike near home AND JOIN .
The box just keeps getting smaller and smaller. Of course the horsie rider sees 50 bikers on the trail, hell it is the only one worth riding. So for now it is back to the wondrous roads of PQ.
The agencies are beginning to see we can organize and present an intelligent front. Help keep the momentum going. Look up the SDMBA website come to the trail work days and become a part of the fight through your membership.
 

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bankerboy said:
I have already read the entire thread, but thanks. I know that SDMBA submitted a trail draft with the help of Mikuteit, but what report are they waiting on? You said "The trail report (what ever you want to call it) is due in January." I know the meeting to decide what happens was postponed, but what is the report that is due? That is all I want to know :thumbsup:
 

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The Letter Is In The Mail

Minette our SDMBA PRES. has already sent a brilliant letter to Rick Thompson, City Trails. SDMBA does a lot of work for the cause that you never hear or know about. I will ask if she feels it should be shared on this site.
 

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I've said it in the past

taffy15 said:
Minette our SDMBA PRES. has already sent a brilliant letter to Rick Thompson, City Trails. SDMBA does a lot of work for the cause that you never hear or know about. I will ask if she feels it should be shared on this site.
I will say it again.

Stop giving until something is given back. Across the board, all city land.

edited to make things clear:
The above was no dig at the SDMBA, it is a dig at the city. That an organization will give them labor hours and help maintain something that benefits both sides, yet when it comes to return favors (city, giving back to the MBA) the city has (in my opinion) given nothing back.

So my opinion, is that the volunteer hours may be best used elsewhere, forest land or similar, until the city decides to acknowledge the volunteers and their cause.

That being said, Im not making those kinds of decisions, thats just my opinion.

Additionally, if someone is crabbing about the tunnels being closed and they haven't ponied up the 20 dollars to be an SDMBA member, well, I'd also say stop the crabbing.
 

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BM and PQ Trail Rep
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Supple1 said:
I have already read the entire thread, but thanks. I know that SDMBA submitted a trail draft with the help of Mikuteit, but what report are they waiting on? You said "The trail report (what ever you want to call it) is due in January." I know the meeting to decide what happens was postponed, but what is the report that is due? That is all I want to know :thumbsup:
Sorry, I think I misspoke. There are no new trail map reports being created. What I should have said was "when the committees meet in January".

Sorry for the confusion.
 

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bankerboy said:
Sorry, I think I misspoke. There are no new trail map reports being created. What I should have said was "when the committees meet in January".

Sorry for the confusion.
No problem, I just thought I missed something pretty important! Thanks for the update, I appreciate it!
 

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I live in Scripps Ranch, very near the tunnels. I ride them at least once a week. I participated in the September PQ Ranch House meeting.

What do I need to do now to continue to voice my opinion? Who do I need to write to (I submitted a letter to the back in October).

Do I write to my district rep? To the Mayor? Who else? What else can I do?

Let me know and I'm there. I can rally at least another dozen to do the same.

Thanks,

Hans
 

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Hans Littooy said:
I live in Scripps Ranch, very near the tunnels. I ride them at least once a week. I participated in the September PQ Ranch House meeting.

What do I need to do now to continue to voice my opinion? Who do I need to write to (I submitted a letter to the back in October).

Do I write to my district rep? To the Mayor? Who else? What else can I do?

Let me know and I'm there. I can rally at least another dozen to do the same.

Thanks,

Hans
1) Join and Support SDMBA.com
2) Write the city council, see this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=476209
3) Contact the local news agencies, explain the situation and ask for it to be covered on the news. This could be extremely helpful to put pressure on city officials!
4) ?????? Lets keep the list going, what other ideas are out there??????
 

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First off, thanks to bankerboy for getting this news out so fast. I was working on putting together some facts yesterday, but he's covered them pretty well. I was about to post Gina's message, and got beat to the punch again.

There's a lot of other misinformation and conspiracy theories being passed around here and elsewhere, and I'd just ask that everyone remain calm for now, and let's see how the trail plan emerges in a couple months. Again, it will now be FEBRUARY, not January that the trail plan comes out. And don't be surprised if it gets delayed again. There is a reasonable plan being proposed, and another that is worrisome, but as Gina says, the agencies need to sign off on it. This adds a level of complication that is not typical. As mentioned, Tunnel 5 is not part of it and unfortunately will never be approved as a trail. I've spoken with Rick Thompson at length, and believe that there is no change in the goal to create an enjoyable, sustainable trail plan for all to enjoy. But Del Mar Mesa is unique as a "core habitat" area.

Some notes:
- Your help staying off trails that are posted as such is CRUCIAL right now.
- Sensitive habitat was being damaged and the city was forced to take action to prevent further degradation. They are legally required to protect it.
- Showing restraint now will prove the resources can be protected and recreational use can be managed.
- Please pass the closure information on to everyone you know who may plan to ride or hike here.
- Removing signs will only create friction for all involved.
- The property ownership maps in the RMP and being posted here appear to be outdated, so don't rely on them. Please just obey the posted signs.
- We are lucky to have many other options for riding nearby: Peñasquitos Canyon, Black Mountain, Carmel Mountain, Rose Canyon, San Clemente Canyon, Tecolote Canyon, Lake Hodges and on and on. This is a good time to explore them if you haven't.

There are also a lot of complaints about houses being built nearby, etc. This isn't up to the people managing open space. Many people have fought long and hard to preserve these areas, and for the most part it wasn't us. If we want more open space and would like it to feature multiuse trails, here are four immediate things we can all do:

- Join SDMBA, as mentioned here repeatedly. http://sdmba.com
- Join IMBA, because we don't just ride in San Diego, do we? http://www.imba.com
- Join the San Dieguito River Valley Conservancy. They are purchasing land from people who might put more of those big houses on the ridgelines and converting it to open space featuring a multiuse trail system from the coast to Vulcan Mountain. http://www.sdrvc.org
- Join the Nature Conservancy. Again, this is how land that might be developed is being protected for everyone. No guarantee the land will feature trails for us, but if there's no land left there won't be the luxury of that option. http://www.nature.org

Remember guys, this is about more than you or I or mountain biking, hiking or riding a horse. The first goal must be to protect the land. The quality of the trails here is incredible and unmatched in the vicinity, and some will be lost in the end. We need to focus on keeping a reasonable amount here and creating or improving surrounding trails systems to match the quality experience on Del Mar Mesa and Tunnels.

Let's work together on it.

Rob
 

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It ain't easy being Green
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Eric,

I agree that's its best to work with the decision makers, but the goalposts just got moved about a mile... until yesterday the trails were "open until officially closed" and the "official" decision kept moving out; now the trails are "closed until officially open" and the "official" decision keeps moving further away...

It's all rather frustrating.
 

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So we're toast! Thank you to the chumps that ruined it for everyone else. I was told by Ranger Washington some months back that the area was being inventoried so they could work up a list of which trails stay and which go. Now we know. They all go. It will be truly amazing if we get anything back. FYI the Backcountry Horsemen of America have a nifty slogan that is at the core of what we believe...."Leave No Trace." It should apply to everyone. If it did we would have a better chance of getting to keep at least some of our trails in the area. This loss really hurts. 30+ years out there with only hoof prints left behind. Responsible use of the land can be designed into any trail plan. Now if cooler heads prevail with those that administer this land we have a chance at a functioning trail system we can all use that address the environmental concerns of the land managers. I for one am not holding my breath. I hope I am proven wrong.
 

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LPCP is La La land

Again, thanks for the input williantuft.

Of all the places in San Diego, the LPCP is the strangest and most bizarre, and SOOO political.

Goodan Preserve (Poway/Sycamore), Elfin Preserve, Daley Ranch all have multi-use trails, and to my knowledge ZERO segregation of trails. If a trail is open, then it does not matter if you are equestrian, hike or bike. I never encounter any trail use issues at those parks with hikers or equestrians, or at Cuyamuca or anywhere else for that matter, and I spend over 200 days a year on a bike. Nothing but mutual respect (well, at least I hope that it is both ways).

The only place there seems to be problems is LPCP where one group is arrogant enough to try and DENY access to a specific group at every turn. This ugliness reared its head at the September meeting.....excuses as to why bikes should be banned and sent elsewhere. There are places where it is better to error on the side of caution, like the many meandering trails that are off-limits to bikes near PQ creek due to sightline restrictions and hiker density. That is acceptable to some extent, but it has set a bad precedent. It makes all trail use by cyclists debatable everywhere in the preserve.

The stewards of LPCP need to put an end to this type of behaviour and should not tolerate it.
 

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rathbone said:
Again, thanks for the input williantuft.

Of all the places in San Diego, the LPCP is the strangest and most bizarre, and SOOO political.

Goodan Preserve (Poway/Sycamore), Elfin Preserve, Daley Ranch all have multi-use trails, and to my knowledge ZERO segregation of trails. If a trail is open, then it does not matter if you are equestrian, hike or bike. I never encounter any trail use issues at those parks with hikers or equestrians, or at Cuyamuca or anywhere else for that matter, and I spend over 200 days a year on a bike. Nothing but mutual respect (well, at least I hope that it is both ways).

The only place there seems to be problems is LPCP where one group is arrogant enough to try and DENY access to a specific group at every turn. This ugliness reared its head at the September meeting.....excuses as to why bikes should be banned and sent elsewhere. There are places where it is better to error on the side of caution, like the many meandering trails that are off-limits to bikes near PQ creek due to sightline restrictions and hiker density. That is acceptable to some extent, but it has set a bad precedent. It makes all trail use by cyclists debatable everywhere in the preserve.

The stewards of LPCP need to put an end to this type of behaviour and should not tolerate it.
Excellent points by Rathbone!

The problem appears that it is the 'stewards' at LPCP that not only permit but promote this nonsensical turf war that is causing the tension and partisanship at LPQ. (Of course by this I in no way mean Gina Washington or the other Rangers, but rather those that pull the strings)

WHY?

There are a few ideas bantered about. One thing for sure, the sharing, non-partisan, open and 'brother trail rider' disposition of Bill Tuft is not only a breath of fresh air, but a model of how we can, and should, get along.

Thanks Bill. Your voice of reason is both a comfort and encouragement that there may still be hope for a better day ahead.

PS- I hope you wife is faring better. Issues of health supersede all others. Thank you too for finding the time to share your thoughts with us during these trying times.
 

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sdcadbiker said:
I agree that's its best to work with the decision makers, but the goalposts just got moved about a mile... until yesterday the trails were "open until officially closed" and the "official" decision kept moving out; now the trails are "closed until officially open" and the "official" decision keeps moving further away...

It's all rather frustrating.
I agree and understand. I think it was a terrible, unecessary decision and one that was poorly executed. We're stuck with it, however, and it's important that we stand firm to support the preservation of the land at this time when we're being goaded and setup to pigeon-hole ourselves into the place where the trail vandals belong.

Several days ago, I posted encouragement for others (ie you reading this) to regularly and firmly inquire what the Rangers are doing to investigate the vandalism that was reported by mountainbikers and that even they admitted (so rare!) appears to be done by equestrians. Don't be distracted by the punishment meted out for participation (because it's not punitive, it's just reactionary): ask yourself whether --had it been a new ladder jump-- the City staff and anti-bike advocates wouldn't be screaming with "certainty" about "who" built it. Posting here does nothing. Post your inquiries on the CAC site and to the Director of Open Space.
 
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