Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Aliso-Woods RMP

It’s time to bring this issue back to the forefront again. The number of e-mails I have been receiving regarding the RMP have been picking up lately since the time change and with more people getting out for evening rides in the park. And some riders have been getting frustrated over the past few weeks (myself included) due to unanswered correspondence with the County.

Fortunately I received my copy of the notice for the May RRTAC meeting at Santiago Oaks Regional Park for Monday, May 16th at 7:00 pm.

In order to give the County the benefit of the doubt, I will take the position that the reason that they have not responded is because Joanne Quirk, RMP Project Manager will be giving a presentation at the meeting regarding the Aliso-Woods RMP.

I was personally getting frustrated because I have been asking for four months for a copy of the letter that was supposed to be written by the RRTAC to the County regarding the RMP (and I will publicly ask once again at this meeting).

Anyone who has any interest at all regarding the trail issues at Aliso-Woods and Laguna Coast really needs to attend this meeting. Ever since our strong showing in November with over 70 riders, only I, Keith and a couple of other riders have attended the subsequent meetings. This lack of presence does not demonstrate to the County that we are a viable group and if we lose access to trails, or do not have any of the currently closed trails considered for legalization, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

If riders are not willing to spend a few minutes writing a letter or two, or commit to a couple of hours every other month to sit in on the RRTAC meetings, then those people will have absolutely no room to utter a word of complaint if the RMP gets completed without the addition of some re-opening of existing trails. There will be no room to complain when the Rangers finally receive the power of citation and issue stiff citations for people using trails that they were not willing to fight for legally.

So many people have e-mailed me asking how they can get involved, and so many people want to know how to voice their opinion.

The RRTAC meeting that takes place every other month is precisely that venue, where the members of the public can stand up and pose questions directly to the board on ANY trail issues within the County. If you don’t take the opportunity to voice your opinion to the County when these venues occur, then you have no voice IMO to voice a complaint afterwards if things don’t develop the way you would like them to.

This particular meeting is important because Joanne Quirk from the County (the RMP Project Manager) will be present to make a presentation regarding the RMP, and to ferry questions from the public.

I will be there once again as I have been since November and will be at every subsequent meeting this year.

Please get involved this time and let the County know that we care greatly about all of the trails in the Aliso-Woods/Laguna Coast parks and want to have our concerns considered during the RMP process.

It’s time to take a head count on who is serious enough about these issues to show their support by attending this meeting.

I will once again be parking at the Albertsons and riding my bike to the meeting. Please post your name here or e-mail me so I can get an estimate of how many riders will be attending this meeting.

Thanks

Adam, aka JamR
 

·
Glad to Be Alive
Joined
·
43,010 Posts
yo Adam

If you can post times of these meetings and directions I will go...we will just make it an event...go to the meeting then a local tavern afterwards to discuss new ways to make it better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Here you go, along with a history of this issue.

The address is at the bottom of this letter, and I will be parking at the Albertsons Parking lot on Jamboree and Santiago Canyon, and will ride my bike to the meeting if anyone is interested in riding in with me.



The RMP stands for the Resource Management Plan.
Basically what has happened at Aliso-Woods and in some part also at Laguna Coast is that the plan for these areas have not been finalized. For over 10 years now Aliso-Woods has been operating under an interim operations plan, which is not an inherent problem in itself.

The problem with this park is that long before the County took possession of the area and created the park as we know it today, and long before the Harbors Beaches and Parks was even an entity in Orange County; this area had a well established network of recreational trails. It does have to be duly noted that many of them were not legally established trails, but realistically after decades of unhindered use by the public; many of these trails became historically accepted paths of travel for recreation in this area.

When the County created the maps of the park as we know it today, there apparently was no concise study that took place that reviewed all of the popular trails in the area. Instead the County simply placed the main logical trails on the map and called it a day.

Even after the creation of the County Park, many of the currently closed trails still enjoyed a quasi-open status and were included in the most popular publication (Mountain Biking in Orange County) with credits given to the Harbors, Beaches and Parks in the prelude to the book.

After a while the closed signs and wire fences started showing up on these popular trails, and then some of the trails that once enjoyed a multi-use status were re-designated to hiking only trails. Then the enforcement and citations came which were geared towards the bikers on closed trails and for night use of the park, while infractions from other user groups were treated in a much lighter manner.

The bottom line is that for years we have been informed that the proper avenue to get these trails re-reviewed for opening was through the County RMP for the park. Quite a few of us have been calling, writing letters and showing up to meetings and trail summits for five years now; and finally it appears that the RMP has begun (although none of us that have written the County lately have received any response in writing confirming this). What we are hanging our hat on right now is Supervisor Wilson’s commitment to our group at a meeting in February that the “RMP would be started and completed under his watch” which I believe effectively ends in November of 2006.

The RRTAC is the Orange County “Regional Recreational Trails Advisory Committee” which is a 12 member (I believe) board of Volunteer members and County Staff that is the public’s sounding board for these issues. They meet every other month at Santiago Oaks Regional Park and cover all trail issues in Orange County (Hiking, Biking, Equestrian trails, bike lanes, bike paths, etc….); and anyone from the public can attend these meetings and bring any trail issue to the board for discussion and review during the public comment period. This is what we have been doing religiously since November.

Joanne Quirk is apparently the Project Manager for the RMP and will be at this meeting to make a presentation to the board and the public on the Aliso-Woods RMP, so it is an important meeting to attend for anyone who wants to be involved and informed regarding Aliso-Woods.

Here is the basic concern that I and others have stated many times to the County regarding the RMP. We simply want to have an involvement in the RMP and to work with the County to try to get access to some of the historical trails that have been closed in the past.

We have stated to the County that one of our main concerns is that we will not be given the opportunity to state our views during the RMP, and there will come a time when we are notified of a public meeting (like the one coming up on the 16th) where we are presented with the final proposed map of the park, and discover that none of our concerns or requests were reviewed.

I do not know if that is what’s taking place here, but I and others have been writing the County again for the past few weeks to Kevin Thomas, Tom Wilson, Joanne Quirk, Jeff Dickman and others within the County simply asking them the current status of the RMP. All the riders I spoke with this week have not received any reply from the County. So it would give the appearance that the County is for some reason not communicating with us.

That’s why it’s very important to have as many riders and hikers as possible at this next meeting so we can once again show the County that we are very concerned and very interested in “OUR” park, and insist on having a say in the outcome of “OUR” recreational trails.

That’s what’s so nice about these meeting venues, because even if a person does not want to get up and get directly involved in publicly speaking directly to the board, their mere presence at these meetings makes a difference, and gives a much needed support to those of us who do get up and speak at these meetings.

We need bikers to be present at ALL of these meeting to show the board members that we are an organized and concerned group that cares deeply about our park.

That’s basically the history and the gist of what we are trying to accomplish. It always helps to have people write letters to the County, and after this meeting I will once again post the e-mail contact addresses for all of the pertinent County personnel who are involved in our parks.

But again……..This is a Very Important Meeting for any rider who uses and loves Aliso-Woods and Laguna Coast to attend.

Not to be harsh………….but as I stated on many occasions……….If you are not willing to get involved with this issue and at least show up to a few meetings per year; then when we don’t re-gain access to come closed trails; more trails get closed on us; and Rangers/Sheriffs start increasing citations to riders in the parks………….you will have no room to complain.

Please attend this meeting and be there to support those of us who are regularly standing up and stating our concerns to the board.

Be there!!!
Monday, May 16th
7:00 pm
Santiago Oaks Regional Park
2145 N. Windes Drive
Orange, CA 92869
714-973-6620

I will be riding my bike in from the Albertsons parking lot.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,126 Posts
Other tools

Hey JamR,

I'm up in the Santa Cruz area, but am an Orange County native (3rd generation, in fact). I want to say thanks to you and all those others involved with this issue. I have fond child hood memories of the Laguna canyon scenery, and hope to ride or hike there one day soon.

Your points on regular participation and numbers at public meetings are all right on. I'd like to add or offer a few suggestions.

First, you mention declining attendance at these meetings. Your posting here was a good thing. I haven't seem much on this or the other board I frequent since the big demonstration ride last fall. I'd sugget posting the schedule for the next few months, AND then posting here and on other boards a week or so before each meeting.

Second, start a listserv. Pass around a signup sheet at the next meeting. Post the address here. Then you can send out e-mail alerts to the whole list with one message. Big time saver.

Good luck to you all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
HarryCallahan said:
Hey JamR,

I'm up in the Santa Cruz area, but am an Orange County native (3rd generation, in fact). I want to say thanks to you and all those others involved with this issue. I have fond child hood memories of the Laguna canyon scenery, and hope to ride or hike there one day soon.

Your points on regular participation and numbers at public meetings are all right on. I'd like to add or offer a few suggestions.

First, you mention declining attendance at these meetings. Your posting here was a good thing. I haven't seem much on this or the other board I frequent since the big demonstration ride last fall. I'd sugget posting the schedule for the next few months, AND then posting here and on other boards a week or so before each meeting.

Second, start a listserv. Pass around a signup sheet at the next meeting. Post the address here. Then you can send out e-mail alerts to the whole list with one message. Big time saver.

Good luck to you all.
Thanks.....will do.

I'll be sending this info to the riders in my contacts list tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,381 Posts
Hey Adam, thanks for bringing this up again. I'll be outta town that week. Is there an address I can send a letter to, what give me the jist or outline of what it should say.
 

·
Waiting to exhale.
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
For someone who has never attended a meeting of this nature before, can you give some pointers on what to expect?

Is there a dress code? I would imagine other attendees (non bikers) would be wearing ties?

Are people supposed to ride up to the meeting on mtb's and riding clothes?

What do we need to bring?

What if you don't know a single thing about the history of the park or its trails, Just show up and don't say anything?

What if you don't have any intelligent things to say, suggest or ask?

Is there a certain "routine" in the way these meetings convene?

Is there a general attitude in the way the other attendees perceive or address bikers?

How will the council members recognize the presence of bikers? Sign in sheet, questions, raise of hands?

If a biker makes a good point, are we allowed to clap in agreement?

If a "hiker" makes an non-agreeable comment, can we boo them? or what is the proper way to show disagreement.

I have never been to any kind of meeting such as this, I don't know what is worse... An attendee who is unexperienced and does not know what to say, or no attendee at all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
SMOKEY said:
For someone who has never attended a meeting of this nature before, can you give some pointers on what to expect?

Is there a dress code? I would imagine other attendees (non bikers) would be wearing ties?

Are people supposed to ride up to the meeting on mtb's and riding clothes?

What do we need to bring?

What if you don't know a single thing about the history of the park or its trails, Just show up and don't say anything?

What if you don't have any intelligent things to say, suggest or ask?

Is there a certain "routine" in the way these meetings convene?

Is there a general attitude in the way the other attendees perceive or address bikers?

How will the council members recognize the presence of bikers? Sign in sheet, questions, raise of hands?

If a biker makes a good point, are we allowed to clap in agreement?

If a "hiker" makes an non-agreeable comment, can we boo them? or what is the proper way to show disagreement.

I have never been to any kind of meeting such as this, I don't know what is worse... An attendee who is unexperienced and does not know what to say, or no attendee at all?
Hi Smokey,

Sorry for the delayed reply.

Regarding your meeting questions.

It's not a suit and tie affair………come as you are. Sometimes I show up from work with a tie, and other times I ride in ( so I'm decked in my baggies and camelback).

Being present at the meeting is what matters…….not what one wears.

Nothing you need to bring but yourself.

You don't have to be knowledgeable and educated on the issues either, and you don't have to say anything if you don't want to. It's a good place just to sit and listen to the different issues pertaining to the county trails.

The nice part about this particular meeting every other month is that anyone can stand up at the public comment period and bring any trail issue to the board that is of interest to them. (example: if I was interested in having a gate added to one of the side street paved bike paths in San Juan to keep cars off the bike path…………..I would stand up, tell them the location and the problem, and the board would have to at least comment on, investigate options, or direct me to the proper group to hear me concerns.)

The meetings are run in a professional typical meeting agenda, so there's not booing or clapping, and a proper meeting decorum is expected.

As far as other attendees perceptions……..that's basically personal to each individual. I've heard a few negative comments about bikers which I spoke up and corrected. In turn I've also heard complaints about horses, dogs, dirtbikes, etc….. But there's not any underlying animosity against any particular group. The board is made up of volunteer board members who are hikers, bikers, equestrians, etc…., so there's a good mixture in the group.

The bottom line however, is that mountain bikers seem to be very under-represented in these meetings as far as the public attendance. There is always a strong equestrian, and a strong hiker presence which is why those groups seem to have so much clout when it comes down to decision making time.

That's why I'm so adamant of the importance of mountain bikers needing to simply donate a couple of hours every other month to attend these meetings to make a difference.

These meetings are a great venue to get messages out to the other user groups also. (example: yesterday I rode STT to Old Camp; and almost the entire way up I noticed that some equestrians used the trail too soon after the rain, and there were hundreds of 4" to 6" deep hoof holes all the way up the trail. Many of them have the distinct possibility of undermining the trail in a heavy rain and causing small slides.) This is the perfect meeting to bring this issue up to the board and speak with the equestrian representatives about educating their group.

Bikers spend a lot of time talking about tire erosion and educating our group, and we also put in the lions share of maintenance in the parks and wilderness areas. This also gets less attention than it should simply because we don't represent ourselves strong enough at theses meetings.

Bottom Line…………even if you do not want to stand up and speak at these meetings, your presence is very important. At the beginning of the meeting there is an introduction period where everyone in attendance simply states their name and their interest there. I always simply state my name and state that I'm a long-time mountain biker and trail user.

We need to start having more than just 2 or 3 mountain bikers making their presence known.

I would ask again that anyone who has 2 hours to spare on Monday the 16th from 7:00pm to 9:00pm, please make it a point to show up at this meeting. At the least, you will come away more informed about many trail issues in Orange County, and you will have helped to show a stronger cohesive presence for our groups.

Thanks,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
What happened at the meeting

Sorry I couldn't make it, my internet went down so by the time that it was up the meeting was over. But may I ask what the outcome of the meeting was. What trails remain closed and or are there any that are reopened.
peace
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top