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Master of None
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Oops, I did it again. I broke my Alfine 8 and now I've broke my Alfine 11 the same way. The 2nd gear pawl is ruined. I guess it can't handle what I ask of it. Gearing is 32/22 and I weigh 200 lbs.

I did have my hub skip on the last ride, I chalked it up to mud in the cassette joint. But it looks like I just smashed the pawl with too much torque.

Anyone know the best place to get parts?
 

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Looks like that pawl was inadequately hardened. It hasn't broken, it's deformed by the look of it.
 

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Aussie Bike Bashing
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Is that damaged pawl on the the axle unit? If so, the Shimano tech documents have it listed down as part number Y37R98060 (see http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...SG/EV-SG-S700-3092_v1_m56577569830729562.pdf). A quick google search didn't reveal too much information on this part, so you may need to contact Shimano yourself, or get a lbs to help you out. Another option may be to try Harris Cyclery on Sheldon Brown's website - they seem to have every IGH device known to humanity.

Alternatively, you look into Shimano doing a warranty job on the hub, although they may not be happy for this given that you have been running it below their recommended input drive ratio...

Let us know how you get on! I have been thinking of building an Alfine 11 into a mtb with 32/22 and I also weigh in at 190lbs, so I am keen to see how this primary gear ratio works out.
 

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Pinchphlat said:
Is that damaged pawl on the the axle unit? If so, the Shimano tech documents have it listed down as part number Y37R98060 (see http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...SG/EV-SG-S700-3092_v1_m56577569830729562.pdf). A quick google search didn't reveal too much information on this part, so you may need to contact Shimano yourself, or get a lbs to help you out. Another option may be to try Harris Cyclery on Sheldon Brown's website - they seem to have every IGH device known to humanity.

Alternatively, you look into Shimano doing a warranty job on the hub, although they may not be happy for this given that you have been running it below their recommended input drive ratio...

Let us know how you get on! I have been thinking of building an Alfine 11 into a mtb with 32/22 and I also weigh in at 190lbs, so I am keen to see how this primary gear ratio works out.
If they pull that one, I'll send you the email they sent me saying there was no lower limit :)
 

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finch2 said:
If they pull that one, I'll send you the email they sent me saying there was no lower limit :)
If that happens, please post the full response from Shimano for all the world to read.

I just switched to the Alfine-11, in part because I could find no connection between their warranty and their "recommendation". One of my three rings meets their recommended ratio - is that enough?
 

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Shimano have a recommendation that you do not go below a ratio of 1.9 with the 11 speed. (It's on the Alfine 11 General Safety Information sheet SI-37R0A-002-00)

For a 29er this gives a low of 29"

I am not aware of a recommended minimum for the 8 speed, so if you want lower gearing the 8 speed is the way to go as far as I can see.
 

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Velobike said:
Shimano have a recommendation that you do not go below a ratio of 1.9 with the 11 speed. (It's on the Alfine 11 General Safety Information sheet SI-37R0A-002-00
Read it again! That's NOT what it says!

What SI-37R0A-002-00 says in the twelfth bullet under "General Safety Information" is, "It is recommended that the gear ratio of the front chain ring be set to approx. 1.9." I don't find the word "below" in there anywhere - nor the word "above" for that matter.

I read the twelfth bullet as general help to the clueless customer who flunked arithmetic and has never heard of "gear-inches". It suggests that if you set up your bike with a ratio of 1.9 AND if you use a wheel about 26" in diameter, then the result will be a bike that is about like the average store-bought bike and about right for most people.

There is no hint in the entire text of SI-37R0A-002-00 that the warranty is in any way dependent on that recommendation. Why do so many want to make that connection?

finch2 said:
If they pull that one, I'll send you the email they sent me saying there was no lower limit :)
Perhaps finch2 could shed some light on this by posting the full text of the email he received from Shimano? I would sure like to see it!
 

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Fair enough point, but Alfine 11s seem to be disintegrating in a way that the 8s didn't which suggests that that ratio may be a limit, not a suggestion.

It's a small sample, but out of 3 bikes I know 2 have problems, and it is taking ages to sort.

Be good to have this cleared up.
 

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@adelorenzo
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A couple of things that I have posted elsewhere, the first being that I talked to a Shimano Tech guy on the phone and he said run whatever ratio you like.

Second is that I've only seen one Alfine 11 in action and it died very quickly. A number of Alfine 8s around here, including mine and my wife's that are going strong after three years, running low 32x22 ratios.
 

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Master of None
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Velobike said:
Fair enough point, but Alfine 11s seem to be disintegrating in a way that the 8s didn't which suggests that that ratio may be a limit, not a suggestion.

It's a small sample, but out of 3 bikes I know 2 have problems, and it is taking ages to sort.

Be good to have this cleared up.
presslab said:
I broke my Alfine 8 and now I've broke my Alfine 11 the same way
Maybe I wasn't that clear, but I broke my 11 the exact same way as my 8. The 2nd gear pawl in my 8 speed died as well. It did take me a while longer to kill the 8, but I wasn't as strong back then. I don't think one Alfine hub is any stronger than the other.


Anyone have a good contact email for Shimano?
 

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I run my Alfine on 32/21 without problems, and I had a Nexus 8 on the same ratio for years, also without problems. I prefer the Alfine to my Rohloff for feel.

I was thinking of getting the 11, but they seem to have a jinx on them in my area. I'd like to see it in writing that the ratio doesn't matter. The hub costs too much to take a chance on it.

If there is a limiting ratio, then the 8 is a better option for me because I need that low gear.
 

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huntting said:
Perhaps finch2 could shed some light on this by posting the full text of the email he received from Shimano? I would sure like to see it!
OK then hunting...here is the email conversation edited to keep it to the point....I think I was pretty clear about what my concern was and the type of hub in question. I can't help to get the feeling that shimano really didn't understand the issue. They have been good with communication though as a lot of companies don't bother replying. Bad luck though, if you bust the hub after 2 years.

ME
Hi, I have never heard a definitive answer to this question I have been asking for a while. Does the Alfine hub require a minimum chainring size to avoid too much torque ont he hub?
If so what is it? If I was to buy the new Alfine 11, and run a 26 tooth ring with say the standard 22 tooth sprocket, would this be fine?
Cheers.

SHIMANO
Thanks for contacting Shimano.

You can run any size chain ring with an internally geared hub, you will only be changing the overall gearing range.

The Alfine 11 speed hub can be used in conjunction with our CT-S500 chain tensioner, which allows the use of two chainrings.

I hope this is helpful, feel free to contact us again.

ME
Thanks, that answers my question exactly. I only ask because I currently run a Rohloff, which has very strict limitations on input torque which will void warrantee if exceeded. Could you please tell me what the warrantee on the Alfine is? Cheers.


SHIMANO
All Shimano bicycle components carry a minimum of two years warranty regarding the quality of workmanship and materials.

Further information pertaining to the use of Alfine hubs-: To make the most of the gearing available it is recommended to set the gearing ratio at 1.9:1, e.g., 34:18, 39:20 or 45:23.

The gearing range can be broadened by the addition of the CT-S500 chain tensioner and a second smaller chain ring of up to a 16 tooth difference, e.g., 44-28 - giving an effective gearing range of up to 642%.

I hope this is helpful, feel free to contact us again.
 

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Presslab, sorry to hear of your woes. Did this happen during a gear change or while you were already engaged in the gear ? Just curious because it looks as though it hasn't engaged fully when the power has gone down perhaps. Good luck with Shimano
 

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finch2 said:
...here is the email conversation edited to keep it to the point.

SHIMANO:
You can run any size chain ring with an internally geared hub, you will only be changing the overall gearing range.
Thanks for posting that. To the best of my searching ability that is the first communication from Shimano on this subject posted on the Internet. It may not address the question as unambiguously as you or I would like, but it is something I am willing to hang my hat on, for now.

BTW folks, I am running the Alfine-11 with the 18T cog, the CT-S500 tensioner and a triple chainring crankset: 44-32-20. That yields drive ratios of 2.4, 1.8 and 1.1 or an 11.5 gear-inch low. I also have a 23T cog that yields drive ratios of 1.9, 1.4 and 0.86 or a 9.0 gear-inch low.

OK, stop rolling your eyes! The rest of the story is that this is all installed on a recumbent trike, set up for long distance touring. It's impossible to stand on the pedals of a bent and I'm a spinner - not a masher.

I've only had the Alfine-11 on the road for two short road/trail rides (winter is still in command, here) and I am really happy with the close ratio shifting of the Alfine-11. Unfortunately, I'll never be able to "prove" that the Alfine-11 is happy with my drive ratio, but I promise to let this forum know if I manage to prove the negative.
 

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Master of None
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I guess I'll try to warranty it, although I buggered up the plastic cap as I don't have the special tool. I don't mind buying the parts if they aren't more than $200 or so.

The skipping occurs while already in gear if I push on the pedals hard enough. I don't ever remember actually having a missed shift. The way these pawls look is different than the freehubs I have seen; they are more rounded. Looking at the ratchet ring the shape of the deformation on the pawl matches that of the ratchet ring tooth. The ratchet ring has no signs of damage.

I don't know what I am going to do long-term after I fix it, maybe it's time for a Rohloff but I don't like grip shift at all.
 

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Well, at least that means, that I should be fine with warranty if I damage the hub by using low gearing within first two years of use.
 

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presslab said:
I guess I'll try to warranty it...
Please do! And, please keep us posted on the whole process.

For starters, will Shimano accept the return of just the guts of your Alfine-11, will they want the full custom wheel or will they ask you to chop the spokes and return the complete hub?

Inquiring minds wait eagerly for further news!
 

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rekrutacja said:
Well, at least that means, that I should be fine with warranty if I damage the hub by using low gearing within first two years of use.
I think from what the rep said, the shimano waratee seems fair, but its probably best to check up on the detail if you can. Some IGH warantee exclusions will include anything that is likely to break, like pawls, threads etc.
 

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Finch2, but there is catch 22: there is no way to know the warranty terms before i buy the hub, and when i buy it, it is already too late. Lucky Alfine 11 users" could you scan and upload all documentation you got with the hub? Warranty terms, service manual etc?
 
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