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Enel said:
For those interested in carbon, DW, lightweight and presumably short travel 29"er:

http://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/29er/

It should be available around when time of the RFX, so save those pennies:D
Yeah, but they are made in Taiwan... err I mean China... $3K for a bike frame that costs $200 to produce doesn't make much sense to me even if they spend over a $100K in R&D.
 

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Appalachian Singletrack'n
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SSINGA said:
Maybe DT can partner with ENVE to produce his carbon frames and keep the mfg in the US.

Looking forward to seeing what Ibis comes up with.
I would imagine an Enve built carbon frame would run a cool $5000+, with all the required Homer aproved bits we could see plenty of >$10,000 builds.

I have a neighbor with a custom Parlee with Di2 and Lightweight weels and I'm willing to bet he has nearly $15,000 in that bike so I suppose the market is out there.

Does Treck still build any of ther carbon in the US?
 

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Endomaniac said:
I would imagine an Enve built carbon frame would run a cool $5000+, with all the required Homer aproved bits we could see plenty of >$10,000 builds.

I have a neighbor with a custom Parlee with Di2 and Lightweight weels and I'm willing to bet he has nearly $15,000 in that bike so I suppose the market is out there.

Does Treck still build any of ther carbon in the US?
This is Trek's cheapest USA made CF bike. Complete build with an MSRP of $3669.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/mountain_full_suspension/fuel_ex/fuelex97/
 

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nocturnal oblivion
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Should be pretty sweet, it is a small market though. I would never give in to the cost/benefit of a FS carbon frame. But obviously there are enough that would. I'm waiting for something better than CF. Suuckaaaas!
 

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qbert2000 said:
sheer number of bikes built means trek can keep prices lower producing in the us vs turner. you are talking an industry giant vs a boutique brand
I personally would rather have an aluminum frame and Turner appears to make the best frames that are made in the USA. I am just listing this for reference so others can gauge how much they are over paying for boutique brands produced overseas.
 

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Dog

The next RFX will NOT be carbon, but the other new model we are working on will be. I talked to EDGE over a year ago, there are about 10 MOUNTAIN BIKERs that would buy a frame in a price range that their costs would demand. They are a great group of people and basically said if you want carbon 'head east old man'. Lots are Parlee frames are made in Asia so hard to say if part of that 15k stayed here or not, certainly the SRAM parts profit. For tooling up production, there is no mtb market for US built carbon full suspension bikes. My cousins husband crosses the border into Mexico weekly for his job, he passes by a Trek plant down there. What do they build there? I wonder what the laws are in defining a product made in Mexico under NAFTA, like a carbon frame or rim but 'finished and/or assembled' in the US. If the frame is built in 2 pieces in Mexico but assembled in Waterloo by workers making 10x the wage, does that % of cost on US labor constitute Made in USA? Just wondering 'cause I was reading a roadie forum recently about Focus bikes claiming Made in Germany but there seems to be good info on the frames actually Made in Asia and Made into Bicycles in Germany. Marketing with a legal twist is seems. When we import a frame it will say where it is made, no bs. If you don't like it, I totally understand as I have spent 17 years struggling with margins to keep manufacturing in the US, but I know that not everything in life goes as planned. But for those that can't afford a $6,000 carbon frame or a $3,000 aluminum frame importing frames will make a lot of riders happy. Woa, I used the ride word! I guess in the end it is always about riding and riders.

DT
 

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Appalachian Singletrack'n
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Along your line of thinking of what constitutes American made:
I’m an architect, a few years ago my firm got involved with a company that helped foreign part manufacturers get contracts with American car manufacturers. The agreements these parts manufacturers would sign would require their parts be made in America. My involvement was designing and managing the construction of their US manufacturing facilities. During that time I oversaw a headlight factory, gearshift/ emergency brake factory, under bed-spare tire carrier factory, and an exhaust system component factory. All of these components where basically foreign made but would be in same way finished here in the US and claimed to be an American made part. For instance the factory that made shift and ebrake assemblies would make all the metal portions of the part in Korea fully assembled them, ship them to the us where they had a machine that would extrude the plastic components that covered the metal parts, snap those plastic bits on and put the part in a box labeled “Made in America”. I was told by everyone involved that this was the norm for the industry.
Does the same thing happen in other industries? I would have a hard time believing it doesn’t.
 

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I don't do PC
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Sounds like your gonna make more than a carbon model overseas, or at least considering it. Screw the hypocrites who get on their soapbox about overseas made frames when half their household is full of imported stuff, I like supporting made in the USA too but it doesn't always(more like usually when it comes to bikes) make sense.

TTTurner- PPPuhlease
 

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turnerbikes said:
The next RFX will NOT be carbon, but the other new model we are working on will be. I talked to EDGE over a year ago, there are about 10 MOUNTAIN BIKERs that would buy a frame in a price range that their costs would demand. They are a great group of people and basically said if you want carbon 'head east old man'. Lots are Parlee frames are made in Asia so hard to say if part of that 15k stayed here or not, certainly the SRAM parts profit. For tooling up production, there is no mtb market for US built carbon full suspension bikes. My cousins husband crosses the border into Mexico weekly for his job, he passes by a Trek plant down there. What do they build there? I wonder what the laws are in defining a product made in Mexico under NAFTA, like a carbon frame or rim but 'finished and/or assembled' in the US. If the frame is built in 2 pieces in Mexico but assembled in Waterloo by workers making 10x the wage, does that % of cost on US labor constitute Made in USA? Just wondering 'cause I was reading a roadie forum recently about Focus bikes claiming Made in Germany but there seems to be good info on the frames actually Made in Asia and Made into Bicycles in Germany. Marketing with a legal twist is seems. When we import a frame it will say where it is made, no bs. If you don't like it, I totally understand as I have spent 17 years struggling with margins to keep manufacturing in the US, but I know that not everything in life goes as planned. But for those that can't afford a $6,000 carbon frame or a $3,000 aluminum frame importing frames will make a lot of riders happy. Woa, I used the ride word! I guess in the end it is always about riding and riders.

DT
Here Here
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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turnerbikes said:
The next RFX will NOT be carbon, but the other new model we are working on will be. I talked to EDGE over a year ago, there are about 10 MOUNTAIN BIKERs that would buy a frame in a price range that their costs would demand. They are a great group of people and basically said if you want carbon 'head east old man'. Lots are Parlee frames are made in Asia so hard to say if part of that 15k stayed here or not, certainly the SRAM parts profit. For tooling up production, there is no mtb market for US built carbon full suspension bikes. My cousins husband crosses the border into Mexico weekly for his job, he passes by a Trek plant down there. What do they build there? I wonder what the laws are in defining a product made in Mexico under NAFTA, like a carbon frame or rim but 'finished and/or assembled' in the US. If the frame is built in 2 pieces in Mexico but assembled in Waterloo by workers making 10x the wage, does that % of cost on US labor constitute Made in USA? Just wondering 'cause I was reading a roadie forum recently about Focus bikes claiming Made in Germany but there seems to be good info on the frames actually Made in Asia and Made into Bicycles in Germany. Marketing with a legal twist is seems. When we import a frame it will say where it is made, no bs. If you don't like it, I totally understand as I have spent 17 years struggling with margins to keep manufacturing in the US, but I know that not everything in life goes as planned. But for those that can't afford a $6,000 carbon frame or a $3,000 aluminum frame importing frames will make a lot of riders happy. Woa, I used the ride word! I guess in the end it is always about riding and riders.

DT
The California Supreme Court has already decided the definition of "Made in the USA"

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8618

It's a product liability nightmare for those that bend the rules.

.
 

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Mexican e-rider
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mtnbiker4life said:
The California Supreme Court has already decided the definition of "Made in the USA"

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/node/8618

It's a product liability nightmare for those that bend the rules.

.
Yes but this is still not black and white. What if some percentage of the product's manufacture is still done in the USA? What's the threshold for it to be "made in the USA"? 20-30% or more?

Most of the stuff we ride on our bikes is made somewhere else than the US (where the bike was made was not a factor for my decision since I live in Mexico), for example:

Tires: china/taiwan
Components: Japan/china
Bars/post: china/taiwan
Suspension: China/taiwan, maybe US
Brakes: China, germany, italy, etc

You get the point, we live in a globalized world whether we like or not and manufacture is becoming a commodity. In my opinion, its service and design where we get the most value added (and those were the reason I chose Turner), not manufacturing.

As long as Dave keeps designing kick a$$ bikes and gives me peace of mind that if a problem arises, it will be taken care of, I will continue to buy Turner (no matter where they are made!)
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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elmadaleno said:
Yes but this is still not black and white. What if some percentage of the product's manufacture is still done in the USA? What's the threshold for it to be "made in the USA"? 20-30% or more?

Most of the stuff we ride on our bikes is made somewhere else than the US (where the bike was made was not a factor for my decision since I live in Mexico), for example:

Tires: china/taiwan
Components: Japan/china
Bars/post: china/taiwan
Suspension: China/taiwan, maybe US
Brakes: China, germany, italy, etc

You get the point, we live in a globalized world whether we like or not and manufacture is becoming a commodity. In my opinion, its service and design where we get the most value added (and those were the reason I chose Turner), not manufacturing.

As long as Dave keeps designing kick a$$ bikes and gives me peace of mind that if a problem arises, it will be taken care of, I will continue to buy Turner (no matter where they are made!)
I think you're missing the point that DT was making. He asked " I wonder what the laws are in defining a product made in Mexico under NAFTA, like a carbon frame or rim but 'finished and/or assembled' in the US. If the frame is built in 2 pieces in Mexico but assembled in Waterloo by workers making 10x the wage, does that % of cost on US labor constitute Made in USA?" It's a product liability and stewardship issue which could cost manufactures a lot in legal support and we know this eventually roles down to the enduser.

.
 

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Mexican e-rider
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mtnbiker4life said:
I think you're missing the point that DT was making. He asked " I wonder what the laws are in defining a product made in Mexico under NAFTA, like a carbon frame or rim but 'finished and/or assembled' in the US. If the frame is built in 2 pieces in Mexico but assembled in Waterloo by workers making 10x the wage, does that % of cost on US labor constitute Made in USA?" It's a product liability and stewardship issue which could cost manufactures a lot in legal support and we know this eventually roles down to the enduser.
.
I understand DT saying that a 10% USA assembly should not constitute a "Made in the USA" product, if it did, its mostly marketing BS.

My comment was regarding your link, where the US Supreme Court apparently prohibits using the "Made in the USA" label for products not made there. Is it a binary ruling or is there a gray area in between (i.e. 20%-80%)?

Regarding the product liability, doesn't that stick with the manufacturer no matter where he manufactures the product? Or are you referring to the ruling the Supreme Court made?
 
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