REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

actual serious pedal questions……

878 Views 21 Replies 12 Participants Last post by BJ-, Aug 23, 2004

rockcrusher

Discussion Starter · Aug 19, 2004

…seriously

OK. Now I know that a strict diet of DH and Freeride running requires mainly flats, I was wondering what pedals all of you who ride aggressively downhill with stunts and jumps and such use when you also have to pedal up serious technical long ascents to get to the downhill sections.

FWIW I usually ride for 3-5 hours with 3/4 of that being climbing, gradual and tough tech, and the rest descending and sessioning on fun sections.

I ride a bullit with a 6"sc and I am finding that as my riding gets more aggressive (thanks to the 6"sc and 8" rotor) down hills I am incurring pain in my knees, mostly I suspect from throwing the bike, which is less than light, around over jumps and drops and on rough landings.

I am using a pair of the ol' red 636 cliplesses and was wondering what clipless pedals with more float you use and whether the float helps or hinders, etc. and whether they are good. I am thinking new shimmanos, the mallets, and the tîme Z's. My wife loves the Mallets, but she is like 120lbs so I can't really translate that across to my 225lbs, anyone else use these in climbing/descending situations. Everyone else I ride with uses XC pedals and older shimmano ones like mine.

Thanks.

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

MulletsRuleAndSoDoI

· #2 · Aug 19, 2004

No Shitmanos

rockcrusher said:
…seriously

OK. Now I know that a strict diet of DH and Freeride running requires mainly flats, I was wondering what pedals all of you who ride aggressively downhill with stunts and jumps and such use when you also have to pedal up serious technical long ascents to get to the downhill sections.

FWIW I usually ride for 3-5 hours with 3/4 of that being climbing, gradual and tough tech, and the rest descending and sessioning on fun sections.

I ride a bullit with a 6"sc and I am finding that as my riding gets more aggressive (thanks to the 6"sc and 8" rotor) down hills I am incurring pain in my knees, mostly I suspect from throwing the bike, which is less than light, around over jumps and drops and on rough landings.

I am using a pair of the ol' red 636 cliplesses and was wondering what clipless pedals with more float you use and whether the float helps or hinders, etc. and whether they are good. I am thinking new shimmanos, the mallets, and the tîme Z's. My wife loves the Mallets, but she is like 120lbs so I can't really translate that across to my 225lbs, anyone else use these in climbing/descending situations. Everyone else I ride with uses XC pedals and older shimmano ones like mine.

Thanks.

Shitmanos can't hold up to hard core riding well. I switch between Z's and Mallets and they both work great, plus they are wicked expensive and everyone can tell just by looking at my bike. I like to be known for having more expensive parts.

Peace

NCBigHit

· #3 · Aug 19, 2004

When I was still riding clipless I used speedplay frogs. I have a few friends that still do. The aren't based on a spring system, so they have essentially infinite float...I would say they take some getting used to if you're used to a shimano type pedal since the speedplays don't have a very profound click in or out...but I loved them since you can really slide around freely when descending.

Just a thought...

Oh, and they do come with a titanium spindle if you're bling obsessed

BillyBob

· #4 · Aug 19, 2004

rockcrusher said:
My wife loves the Mallets, but she is like 120lbs so I can't really translate that across to my 225lbs, anyone else use these in climbing/descending situations. Everyone else I ride with uses XC pedals and older shimmano ones like mine.

After breaking my Shimanos I've been riding on Mallets for a couple months. They felt different clipping in and out at first, but like anything you get used to it. I'm really pleased with them overall. The simple, strong design definitely beats the complex, breakage-prone shimanos. Don't waste your money on the Mallet-M's though, they are a few grams lighter than the C's but a whole lot more expensive.

rockcrusher

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 19, 2004

Thanks, did you ever find your dog?

MulletHilton said:
Shitmanos can't hold up to hard core riding well. I switch between Z's and Mallets and they both work great, plus they are wicked expensive and everyone can tell just by looking at my bike. I like to be known for having more expensive parts.

Peace

Thanks mullethilton your post was really helpful and by helpful I mean that if you could have any less substance I would call you Paris Hilton.

Try reading the post, you know left to right, top to bottom, link letters to make words and words to make sentences, etc, it may actually help you sound intelligent.

moron

rockcrusher

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 19, 2004

How is the float? I mean do you find yourself noticing it or is it pretty invisible once you get used to it?

I feel really attached to my 636's (no pun intended) I have three pairs that I have been rotating since about '97 and they are still solid. I am just getting this pain on a knee that had surgery about 10 years ago. A cleat adjustment helped but not enough. I hurt a lot last weekend. I guess it is time to retire 'em (pedals not knees).

Gotcha on the mallet-m's though, if my wife wasn't going to get them then neither am I.

Thanks

BillyBob

· #7 · Aug 19, 2004

rockcrusher said:
How is the float? I mean do you find yourself noticing it or is it pretty invisible once you get used to it?

I feel really attached to my 636's (no pun intended) I have three pairs that I have been rotating since about '97 and they are still solid. I am just getting this pain on a knee that had surgery about 10 years ago. A cleat adjustment helped but not enough. I hurt a lot last weekend. I guess it is time to retire 'em (pedals not knees).

Gotcha on the mallet-m's though, if my wife wasn't going to get them then neither am I.

Thanks

Here is what the cb site says about it:

float.

The mallet c has 6 degrees rotational float. when you clip out, the front and back release simultaneously. the rear of the cleat moves out as much as the front moves in. the spring pressure ramps up from zero (through the 6 degrees of float) up until release.

...I am not sure if that's a lot or a little in comparison to others. Can you tell from riding your wife's bike how they feel on your knees?

rockcrusher

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 19, 2004

I wish but my cleats are incompatible with her pedals. The only real solution I guess is to set her cleats up on my shoes and snap those pedals when she doesn't want to ride.

Thanks for the help

MulletsRuleAndSoDoI

· #9 · Aug 20, 2004

See

I told you what to get and everyone agrees with me.

LandonVega

· #10 · Aug 20, 2004

MulletsRuleAndSoDoI said:
I told you what to get and everyone agrees with me.

but nobody likes so nobody listens to you.

G

· #11 · Aug 20, 2004

I think i speak for all when i say...mullet is a retard....do i not?

LandonVega

· #12 · Aug 20, 2004

[email protected] said:
I think i speak for all when i say...mullet is a retard....do i not?

oh how you do

dream4est

· #13 · Aug 20, 2004

rockcrusher said:
How is the float? I mean do you find yourself noticing it or is it pretty invisible once you get used to it?

I feel really attached to my 636's (no pun intended) I have three pairs that I have been rotating since about '97 and they are still solid. I am just getting this pain on a knee that had surgery about 10 years ago. A cleat adjustment helped but not enough. I hurt a lot last weekend. I guess it is time to retire 'em (pedals not knees).

Gotcha on the mallet-m's though, if my wife wasn't going to get them then neither am I.

Thanks

your riding the best clipless pedals for dh/freeride ever built. keep those 636's. if you knees hurt riding them i would say its time to go flats and heres my reason why: you pedal stroke is slighlty sloppy or off and your knee is paying the price, thats not a slam on your skill or anything but just the reality of clipless. they kill the knees, hips and ankles (or old injuries) if things are off just a hair in the setup OR your pedal stroke. flat pedals allow you to find your proper foot postioning for your knee, allow for some "float" to correct bad form and hurt less when riding lower than optimal seat heights . and you will learn to unweight the bike for hops and moves not using clipless to "pull up" to unwieght, but by weighting or pushing, which should help alleviate some stress.. im 34 and will only ride flats mainly because i would like to freeride for a long time and my knees never hurt riding them.

antonovc

· #14 · Aug 20, 2004

i personally vote for time pedals, they are awesome, i have never accidentally clipped out, my knees never hurt at all, and they seem to have just the perfect amount of float but you dont really notice it at all, i havent ever tried mallets but ive heard good things. they are kinda different from shimanos, but not hard to get used to. o and they shed mud extremely well

chuffer

· #15 · Aug 20, 2004

dream4est said:
your riding the best clipless pedals for dh/freeride ever built. keep those 636's. if you knees hurt riding them i would say its time to go flats and heres my reason why: you pedal stroke is slighlty sloppy or off and your knee is paying the price, thats not a slam on your skill or anything but just the reality of clipless. they kill the knees, hips and ankles (or old injuries) if things are off just a hair in the setup OR your pedal stroke. flat pedals allow you to find your proper foot postioning for your knee, allow for some "float" to correct bad form and hurt less when riding lower than optimal seat heights . and you will learn to unweight the bike for hops and moves not using clipless to "pull up" to unwieght, but by weighting or pushing, which should help alleviate some stress.. im 34 and will only ride flats mainly because i would like to freeride for a long time and my knees never hurt riding them.

Actually, as far as 'float while pedalling' goes clipless provide a lot more float than platforms. When I ride platforms, I can't move my foot around at all unless I unweight my foot a little bit. The spikes in the platforms hold my shoes too tight. Sure you can lift your foot up and move it around with platforms, but thats not really the point. Knee damage comes from pedalling with your femur and lower leg locked into a single plane. With clipless pedals even with full force on the pedals you can still have a little float. This float under load -the ability to rotate your foot around and thus allow your knee to move while pedalling- is what saves your knees. That just isn't possible with good platforms.

I am not the only one who thinks so. For giggles and sh!ts as an undergrad I read a bunch of Journal of Biomechanics articles on just this topic. The articles were from the mid to late eighties sometime when clipless was really just hitting the race scene. A couple of researchers, after hooking a bunch load cells up to a couple of different pedal set ups, came to the conclusion that clipless pedals apply way less lateral forces(twisitng force/torque whateva) on your knees.

(Sorry, I just checked ScienceDirect.com and couldn't find the articles.)

As for what pedals, that is difficult. Time ATACs, while they are not FR DH pedals, seem to me to have the best/most float....sometimes too much for FR DH. Generally, I switch between two different sets of pedals. Bombing/horsing around/jumping/short rides = platforms. Longer distance with some climbing = ATACs. Platform clipless I have never tried, just because they really seem like the worst of both worlds. But again I have no first hand experience with them...

blah blah blah I am a long winded [email protected]

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rockcrusher

Discussion Starter · #16 · Aug 20, 2004

thanks for the info. I suspect that I will eventually give some Z's or mallets a try. The platform-only solution is just not practical since most of my riding involves long tech uphills which I love to clean and I really can't imagine not having a pull-up stroke in my spin.

Oh and I love the 636's just they are a little lacking in the float realm but holy schmoly do they last a long time. Thanks goodness I have 3 pair that I rotate. Keeps 'em a little fresher and allows me to rebuild a set while I ride a set (not actually while I am riding but that would be a serious feat). I recommend having two pair of your fav' pedals.

hey and MulletHilton i suspect that your favorite trail is a true indication of your recreational proclivities. I figure since you spend all your time telling males what to buy more than likely you do the same on your fav' "trail"? Or am I wrong? So show us the KHS Crest (or is that code for what is on the head of chicken?) decked to the max or shut up? Otherwise we will suspect that you are spending time in the woods and riding something, and by something I mean not a bike.

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.WestCoastHucker.

· #17 · Aug 20, 2004

rockcrusher said:
actual serious pedal questions....

i looked and looked, i couldn't find anything serious here....

[email protected]

· #18 · Aug 20, 2004

If you're climbing for periods of time longer than ten minutes your knee pain is probably coming from improper seat height. I have the same problem because I don't like raising my seat to where it should be for longer climbs. Raising up to where you've got about 5 degrees left of knee bend and 6 o'clock pedall position will eliminate most of your knee pain, although some damage has already been done (most likely, just based on what you've said). Going beyond 5 degrees will cause more problems, you don't want to be fully extending your leg during pedaling under load (ie climbing).

rockcrusher

Discussion Starter · #19 · Aug 20, 2004

James,

actually the pain is coming after downhill sections and it then flares up again on the uphills. Downhill plus 36lbs bullit=torque on knee joint. I suspect that the float will help on the downhills and especially on the uphills. I have realigned the cleat of the offending knee to better pedal efficiently but that is to no avail and I have my bike setup reasonably good, although you have got me thinking. I have a PT friend that may do a free professional bike fit on me so maybe I should take him up on that. Thanks for the thoughts, helpfull once again.

P.S. .WCH you hijacker.

BJ-

· #20 · Aug 21, 2004

get a set of the new atomic labratories trail pimps...there a wicked flat pedal...and if you could get ur hands on a set of the limited edition ones...then that would be even better...

shimano dx flats are really good to...

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