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About oil on Fox stanchions? Basic but not dumb question. Maybe.

2650 Views 33 Replies 14 Participants Last post by bad mechanic, Nov 20, 2009

GrantB

Discussion Starter · Jun 22, 2009

Is it normal for less oil to be left up on the spring side stanchion of an open bath Fox F100 than is left on the damper side? I raced today and hammered the bejeezus out of my new fork (which is pretty killer, by the way) and was kind of flummoxed by the appreciable oil on the damper side but close to dry conditions on the spring side.

Second question. Should I spring for some new crush washers every time I crack the thing open to add oil?

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

Berkley

· #2 · Jun 22, 2009

The damper side has 155ml of oil. The spring side has 20ml. So it's understandable that the damper side would show more.

How often do you open the fork to add oil? You shouldn't need to add oil that often. If your fork is leaking enough oil that you have to open it to add some, then something is wrong. I usually only replace the crush washers when I do a rebuild, which is about once a year.

GrantB

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 22, 2009

Brand new fork. That race was the fourth ride total on it. I haven't opened it up and probably won't for some time.

The major difference in oil levels from right to left makes sense. Only for lube on the left, lube and damping on the right, need more in the right.....

All is right with the wonderfork, then. Sweet.

Jerk_Chicken

· #4 · Jun 22, 2009

You should regularly check the oil left in the spring side. 20ml is not that much oil and can be gone faster than you know...

bad mechanic

· #5 · Jun 22, 2009

Do yourself a favor and just install Enduro seals on there now. Then you won't have oil on your stanchions and you won't have to worry about checking the oil.

Nick_M2R

· #6 · Jun 22, 2009

^^

+1 to the enduros
I havent ridden a fox fork for more than a couple of rides, but all of the riders in my local club who have fox forks have swapped the seals to enduros, because the fox seals are rubbish at sealing out the ausie outback dust so they say

GrantB

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 23, 2009

Yeah, might as well pony up for the Enduro seals. The kit comes with crush washers, so there you go.

But again, if you are just opening it up to check oil levels, does that require new crush washers every time just to seal it back up?

EmanResu

· #8 · Jun 24, 2009

GrantB I've reused mine over and over and haven't had a problem. I did lightly sand the aluminium crush washer at one point to make it flat again as it was getting a bit scored, but I've not seen any oil leak past these old washers yet so it seems reet enough to me.

GrantB

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 13, 2009

Installed the Enduro seals about a month ago. No puddles of oil on the stanchions now. Due to the hamfisted destruction of a new crush washer in the Enduro kit, I recycled an old crush washer. I have had no leaks from the bottom of the fork, so I guess an old one will still seal up the hole in some cases.

BC

· #10 · Nov 13, 2009

I've re-used the crush washers on my 36 many times with no leaking. As far as Fox seals go, It's very important to clean under the edges of the seal to prevent leaks (easier said than done). I use a toothbrush to get between the stancion and seal. I've used Enduro's and they work well, but do create more drag. It's a double edged sword.

bad mechanic

· #11 · Nov 13, 2009

LAKESNAKE said:
I've used Enduro's and they work well, but do create more drag. It's a double edged sword.

The new generation of Enduro seals go a long way toward fixing this.

tom schoonveld

· #12 · Nov 16, 2009

Hey Guys,

While Fox makes great products most are shipped with either no bath oil or the incorrect amount. They can't get away with it on the open bath side or else you would have no damping. I just received a 2010 Talas 32 fit. It had about a teaspoon in talas side should have been 10 cc at least. The other side had slightly more and should have been 30 cc. I guess that is one way to get to the target weight leave out a few ounces of oil. Mind you this is not an isolated case I have owned many fox forks and routinely check the levels before they are mounted. Had a 09 that had ZERO bath oil in the talas side. Maybe if you are not see oil on the spring side stanction it may not have any oil in that side.

bad mechanic

· #13 · Nov 16, 2009

tom schoonveld said:
Hey Guys,

While Fox makes great products most are shipped with either no bath oil or the incorrect amount. They can't get away with it on the open bath side or else you would have no damping. I just received a 2010 Talas 32 fit. It had about a teaspoon in talas side should have been 10 cc at least. The other side had slightly more and should have been 30 cc. I guess that is one way to get to the target weight leave out a few ounces of oil. Mind you this is not an isolated case I have owned many fox forks and routinely check the levels before they are mounted. Had a 09 that had ZERO bath oil in the talas side. Maybe if you are not see oil on the spring side stanction it may not have any oil in that side.

Word. This is why I always recommend people rebuild their new Fox fork straight from the box. However, I've also found Rock Shox forks to be low on oil, and in one I even found a huge thing of grease instead of oil on the air piston, so I think it's less of a Fox specific problem, and more of an industry wide problem.

GrantB

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 16, 2009

Right. The absence of oil. This fork was a NOS 2008, so I didn't ride it for a terribly long time before opening it up to both do the Enduros and make sure of the correct oil levels. FWIW, it looked to me that my fork had ample oil in both legs.

I agree with Bad Mechanic that these newer Enduros don't feel draggy at all. I can't tell a difference stiction wise between them and the OEM stuff except for already noted lack of leakage.

DavidNeiles

· #15 · Nov 16, 2009

I have not had a problem out of any of my fox forks requarding the seals leaking. Most mechanics around here agree that the Fox seals are great and Enduro is a little tighter and scratches the stantions overtime. Here in the SE, we might not have same conditions in other parts of the world? Why is everyone having problems with Fox seals? And I love mine and my 2 yr old Float is butter smooth and clean with Fox seals. I do keep my fork super clean and every couple of months I pop up the seals, foam rings, and clean them per Fox instructions. I change my oil about every 12 months. The last oil change I did the oil was still clean! After a year + of hard riding. I almost wish I had waited longer. I have been enjoying my Fox forks throughly.

GrantB

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 16, 2009

DavidNeiles said:
I do keep my fork super clean and every couple of months I pop up the seals, foam rings, and clean them per Fox instructions.

That's why I went ahead and changed to the Enduros. I figured with the way the Enduros work, if I change the seals once a year when I do the fluids, that with the amount of grunge that I don't see on the stanchions and assume is getting sucked into the fork, I could skip the Fox recommended every couple of months dental tool under the lip of the seal, etc. I will agree that the tightness of the Enduro seals probably doesn't come without risks. Seems like simply wiping down the stanchions in this case might alleviate some of that.

Also, whenever I get into a discussion like this where it starts to sound like I might know what I am doing, I feel I should let future readers of this thread know that I am largely ignorant in most things and am really motivated more by an obsession with my toys and their well being than anything else. So there's my disclaimer.

bad mechanic

· #17 · Nov 16, 2009

DavidNeiles said:
I have not had a problem out of any of my fox forks requarding the seals leaking. Most mechanics around here agree that the Fox seals are great and Enduro is a little tighter and scratches the stantions overtime.

I hate this hearsay rubbish. Enduro seals do not wear the stanchions, period. If your stanchions are getting scratched, it's because they hit something, not from the seals. If your stanchions are getting worn down, then change your oil more often as Fox's like to eat their stanchions and the dirt in the oil accelerates this.

Fox will immediately blame aftermarket seals if the stanchions wear, totally disregarding the fact it happens much more frequently with their stock seals.

Enduro simply do a better job keeping the oil in and the dirt out, which is always a good thing.

DavidNeiles said:
Why is everyone having problems with Fox seals?

Because Fox seals don't seal very well. They let the oil out and the dirt in. This is bad because as you lose oil you lose lubrication, which is compounded by the abrasive dirt which the seals let in being suspended in what oil is left.

Consider yourself luck if the Fox seals are working for you.

DavidNeiles

· #18 · Nov 16, 2009

I hate to disagree, but I think the people with Enduro seals that have had problems with Fox seal complain on this site. There are hundreds of thousands of happy Fox riders out there with no problems.
I just see it as this, Why have all your fox parts from fox but the seals? They make great products and I think they can make good seals too. I have some buddies that had enduro seals and ended up over the years wearing down the stantions to the point oil was leaking past them and they were toast. IMO stick with the Fox product.

To each his own!!

Sorry for starting this $hit storm bad mechanic

bad mechanic

· #19 · Nov 16, 2009

DavidNeiles said:
I hate to disagree, but I think the people with Enduro seals that have had problems with Fox seal complain on this site. There are hundreds of thousands of happy Fox riders out there with no problems.

I think it's a combination of people getting lucky, people just installing new Fox seals regularly, people not riding enough, or people not knowing about Enduro seals.

I think there are a lot more people using Enduros than you realize. My friends who had problem with oil loss on their Fox forks are now using Enduros with zero issues. More and more people are switching over them as well.

DavidNeiles said:
I just see it as this, Why have all your fox parts from fox but the seals? They make great products and I think they can make good seals too.

Because no one is perfect, including Fox? Yes, I think they make an excellent product, but the seals have always been their weak point. Fortunately, we now have a way to fix it.

Why would a market even exist for them if they were so great? There's not much market for Zoke or RS after market seals (they both have good stock products).

DavidNeiles said:
I have some buddies that had enduro seals and ended up over the years wearing down the stantions to the point oil was leaking past them and they were toast.

I think immediately pointing the finger at the Enduro seals after years of use is poor form, when so many other things likely caused it like neglected maintenance or a preexisting condition. The fact is, a LOT of stanchions (with a "ch", not a "t") get worn through on stock Fox seals.

DavidNeiles said:
Sorry for starting this $hit storm bad mechanic

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Zanetti

· #20 · Nov 16, 2009

bad mechanic said:
Because Fox seals don't seal very well. They let the oil out and the dirt in.

I'd say that's half true. The Fox seal/wiper assemblies do allow a substantial amount of oil to escape, but this escaping oil usually takes any dirt with it. It also ensures there is a small amount of oil on the stanchions at all times to keep the outer scraper lip wet and effective. It's actually a pretty good design, and I've noticed my Fox forks stay very clean on the insides between oil changes.

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