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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To Whom it May Concern,

As the 24 Hours of Allamuchy approach, I want to make a special plea. I am now asking politely to suspend the race if it is raining. Contrary to belief, the park has not recovered fully from rainy races. Please, please, please be respect the trails and do not race in the rain.

Thank you.
 

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IMBAman said:
To Whom it May Concern,

As the 24 Hours of Allamuchy approach, I want to make a special plea. I am now asking politely to suspend the race if it is raining. Contrary to belief, the park has not recovered fully from rainy races. Please, please, please be respect the trails and do not race in the rain.

Thank you.
No. No.
 

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IMBAman said:
To Whom it May Concern,

As the 24 Hours of Allamuchy approach, I want to make a special plea. I am now asking politely to suspend the race if it is raining. Contrary to belief, the park has not recovered fully from rainy races. Please, please, please be respect the trails and do not race in the rain.

Thank you.
You Jackass,yes im calling you a jackass!
 

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I feel ya Imbaman. A few years ago I started posting on a different site to try to get help to curb a "rest stop" problem that was happening in a local park. I mentioned a certain day I was in the park, and the number of individuals I saw engaging in lewd behavior. Some whacko from a local cycling team responded that it was wet that day, and I should not have been riding because I was harming the trails. I don't really care if people ride in the mud personally, but lets not flip our scripts for an agenda. If the clubs all think it is bad to ride on wet trails, then postpone a race due to rain. Either that or just have the race on the paved part of the park, that way people who are coming from a long way off, or have to schedule a saturday vacation day don't get hurt.
erik
 

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i don't know. i rode allamuchy for the first time a couple weeks ago. and while i only saw a small part of the park, i didn't see anything that i would call damaged. no place that people ride bikes is ever gonna be pristine. but it seems like bob et al put a lot of work into maintaining that park. i say count your blessings.
 

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IMBAman said:
To Whom it May Concern,

As the 24 Hours of Allamuchy approach, I want to make a special plea. I am now asking politely to suspend the race if it is raining. Contrary to belief, the park has not recovered fully from rainy races. Please, please, please be respect the trails and do not race in the rain.

Thank you.
Dan,

A quick one for you...and I am serious about this, when was the last time you actually rode at Allamuchy? After your many comments after All-A-Muchy did I not ask you to let me know if there were damaged sections of trail to point them out to me? This was also extentded after you thourhg I was the promotor for the 24 hr race as well (two chances for you to show me areas that needed work). You have been on my TM e-mail list for as long as I can tell (Dan Mathews) and you have not come out for one TM date, why? (Would you like me to remove you from the list?)

Also as an FYI, the actuall promotors of the 24 hr race do not look at MTBR, so if you would like your pleas to be effective go to the web site (www.24hours of allamuchy.com) and e-mail directly to them.

Oh, BTW you will love the name of our team this year!:D

See ya,

Bob W. XOXOXOX
 

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I actually ride there at least once a week and the only damage I have seen is done by the occational motorcycles. The white trail over by the 517 side has some burms that are typical of this. Other than that, I'ld have to say the trails are in great shape.

Has anyone seen or heard motorcycles in Chimney Rock. On my last outing I kept hearing them, but never saw them. I did see tracks in the mud and thought of calling the cops but I don't want to seem like a bitter old fart if it's just an random thing.

Dan, since your efforts to curb racing are not viewed too favorably here, maybe you should take up the cause of keeping the trails free of ATV/motorcycles? Sustainable trails and atv are seldom the case as can be seem at the Lewis Morris. Have you seem the damage there caused when the park police had a ATV Safety day? BTW, Sean and the guys from Marty's have done alot of work repairing this damage to get ready for the race this weekend. I'm sure if there is any damage they will be out there sunday repairing it. Doing something about the ATVs that keep popping up on our trails would be a viable cause to take up instead of attacking other mt bikers. Just a thought.
 

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I am quite impressed whenever I show up to a Bob W TM day in Allamuchy. All the trails are well thought out beforehand -- analysis is done for water drainage, proper design of switchbacks, bench cuts, etc. Retaining walls are constructed where appropriate -- hell, it is like working on a well designed road project.

I would say that Allamuchy has many great trails due to great people maintaning them. There is a lot of work to do in there because the trail system is vast. I would second the theory that ATV's are very damaging in Allamuchy -- lots of ruts have been cut by wide wheels and erosion has resulted. But, by and far, Allamuchy trails have great friends in both Bob and Karen W and they do so much for that park.
 

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theferralkid said:
Has anyone seen or heard motorcycles in Chimney Rock. On my last outing I kept hearing them, but never saw them. I did see tracks in the mud and thought of calling the cops but I don't want to seem like a bitter old fart if it's just an random thing.
i have heard and seen the ATV's at CR myself. i have seen them down at the flatter sections by the river, in the section across from the parking lot at newman's lane.
 

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I was preparing for a ride at Chimney Rock Monday around 4PM and i saw two kids on a Quad leaving the white trail and heading to the red. Not familiar with the rules of the park i wasn't sure whether they were allowed or not, or what could even be done about it at that point.

clarkenstein, that would be the white trail. you could see the tracks over there.
 

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ATVs are prohibited from all federal, state and county parks that I know of*. obvious exceptions are park personnel. *please feel free to correct me if I am wrong here

regardless, if in doubt call the rangers. worst case it they say that ATVs are allowed and thanks for the call. best case, they nab them. if a couple get caught word will spread. 2 ATVers got caught in Lewis Morris last week.

i have the ringwood and allamuchy ranger phone numbers programmed into my cell phone for just such an occasion.

this gives me an :idea: ... a master list of phone numbers for each park:
http://www.jorba.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=534

i'll work on getting more. if anyone has phone numbers for other parks let me know.
 

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Allamuchy Joe said:
I am quite impressed whenever I show up to a Bob W TM day in Allamuchy. All the trails are well thought out beforehand -- analysis is done for water drainage, proper design of switchbacks, bench cuts, etc. Retaining walls are constructed where appropriate -- hell, it is like working on a well designed road project.

I would say that Allamuchy has many great trails due to great people maintaning them. There is a lot of work to do in there because the trail system is vast. I would second the theory that ATV's are very damaging in Allamuchy -- lots of ruts have been cut by wide wheels and erosion has resulted. But, by and far, Allamuchy trails have great friends in both Bob and Karen W and they do so much for that park.
right on, Joe! Kudos to Bob and Karen and all the people that come out to work the trails. Speaking of... has everyone see the pics of the hard work on on Ditch!!

http://www.jorba.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=309
 

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Allamuchy Joe said:
I am quite impressed whenever I show up to a Bob W TM day in Allamuchy. All the trails are well thought out beforehand -- analysis is done for water drainage, proper design of switchbacks, bench cuts, etc. Retaining walls are constructed where appropriate -- hell, it is like working on a well designed road project.

I would say that Allamuchy has many great trails due to great people maintaning them. There is a lot of work to do in there because the trail system is vast. I would second the theory that ATV's are very damaging in Allamuchy -- lots of ruts have been cut by wide wheels and erosion has resulted. But, by and far, Allamuchy trails have great friends in both Bob and Karen W and they do so much for that park.
right on, Joe! Kudos to Bob and Karen and all the people that come out to work the trails. Speaking of... has everyone see the pics of the hard work on on Ditch!!

http://www.jorba.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=309

trails like these don't happen naturally, they are built by dedication, muscle and sweat equity.
 

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Oh Boy Here he goes again!!!

You have to love people who show up for 1 trail session and think they know everything after working for like 4-5 hours one day and already they are experts in trail design, construction, soil surveys, environmental management, Oh boy i really had to laugh at this guy.
I have been building and designing trails for over 15 years and i still don't know everything,
but hell am not a landscape architect ( CLA- certified landscape architect) or a soil engineer, or a Geotechnical engineer or an environmental engineer. And i work for a civil engineering firm and we have CLA'S and civil engiineers and a certified environmental enginner and they would love to know your method on determining this stuff, they said they will hire you right now. Oh below is the breakdown on some of the requirements and classes you must of had..;)

GEOTECHNICAL/GEO-ENVIRONMENTAL
Advanced Soils Engineering
Engineering Properties of Soils
Groundwater and Seepage
Foundation Engineering
Design of Earth Structures
Theoretical and Applied Rock Mechanics
Applied and Experimental Rock Mechanics
Selected Advanced Topics in Geotechnical Engineering
Dynamics of Soils and Foundations
Finite Element Method in Geotechnical Engineering
Geotechnical Aspects of Hazardous Waste Management
Design of Municipal Solid Waste Disposal Facilities
Modeling of Contaminant Transport

ENVIRONMENTAL
o Advanced Environmental Engineering
o Unit Operations in Sanitary Engineering
o Advanced Sanitary Engineering Design
o Introduction to Environmental Engineering
o Water Quality Management
o Water Quality Modeling
o Chemical Processes in Water Quality Engineering
o Physical Processes in Water Quality Engineering
o Biological Processes in Water Quality Engineering
o Design of Solid Residuals and Natural Treatment Systems
o Administration of Public Works
o Risk Assessment in Environmental Engineering

Dam DAN you must have a ton of certifications or degrees in that or your just
a wanna be thinks he knows it all. Keep writing this stuff i need a good laugh and it makes you sound more idiotic then you really are.

I know the organizers of the race are out their fixing the trails the next day, so we can all assume you will be their too to help volunteer..

like bob W. has invited you out numerous times.

I invite you to attend one of the trail building classes put on by the Monmouth county Park System, just call Susan walsh
Volunteer Coordinator at 732-842-4000 ext 4283 and tell her i sent you.
hope you can attend...:thumbsup:

Also i dont ride in the rain,

Kindly,

Mike Flatley
 

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Don't race in rain

I ride Allamuchy regularly, before we cuss out the motorcycles (I don't ride them), they are the ones that built most of the trails and bridges up there. They were the ones doing the primary maintenance up there until just a few years ago when they got kicked out because their race was damaging the trails. They had a race in wet conditions and that really did a number on the trails. I am sure there are people on this board that know more about it than me, so if I am wrong on these facts please chime in.

I am 110% behind races in Allamuchy, they do a great service for the trails. Races in the rain, however, are unexcusable. There is no need to race in the rain/wet conditions. None, zippo...all it does is ruin the trails for those that ride there regularly. Rain dates should be required.

Mark
 

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Motorcycles in Allamuchy

Red Voodoo said:
I ride Allamuchy regularly, before we cuss out the motorcycles (I don't ride them), they are the ones that built most of the trails and bridges up there. They were the ones doing the primary maintenance up there until just a few years ago when they got kicked out because their race was damaging the trails. They had a race in wet conditions and that really did a number on the trails. I am sure there are people on this board that know more about it than me, so if I am wrong on these facts please chime in.

I am 110% behind races in Allamuchy, they do a great service for the trails. Races in the rain, however, are unexcusable. There is no need to race in the rain/wet conditions. None, zippo...all it does is ruin the trails for those that ride there regularly. Rain dates should be required.

Mark
MArk,

I would say you are about 60% right. Yes, for years the most use the park got was by motorcycles. This is going way back pre 1994. The bridging in the north section of the park from my understanding was installed by the Ridge Riders as well (club that ran the motocycle Enduro for 30 plus years). The bridging in Deer Park, by mountain bikers (Allamuchy JORBA Chapter)

My feelings on why the DEP had stopped the race was because of misunderstandings and egos. Also, one can say the DEP has themselves to blame. Reason being is that anyone can have a special event for $55 permit fee with no requirements for pre or post TM. (I have been working on getting this changed). Where you are wrong is that there has been no TM (onther than building several bridges) by the Ridge Riders in the past, and there was not requirement for it. On the other hand, TM by mountian bikers has been going on for 15 years or so in the park.

So, my last question for you Mark is - You feel the trails in Allamuchy are ruined due to past races being run in the rain and are now unsuitable for your use?

Bob W.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh Bobby your true colors come out. Just because someone doesn't agree with you and thinks the trails in Allamuchy are not in good condition and you go on the attack. Get over it pal. No matter how much work is done there, the racing will keep setting it back even more, expecially in the rain.

As for your comment about not showing up for TM, I do my own TM. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me when it is time to repair a trail. It should be on everyone's mind everytime one rides.

As for riding there, I was there two weeks ago, decided that the trails were too wet (but seems other people didn't feel that way), and switched to my road bike for the day.

So, get off your high horse NJ Trail God and humble yourself a bit.

Bob W said:
MArk,

I would say you are about 60% right. Yes, for years the most use the park got was by motorcycles. This is going way back pre 1994. The bridging in the north section of the park from my understanding was installed by the Ridge Riders as well (club that ran the motocycle Enduro for 30 plus years). The bridging in Deer Park, by mountain bikers (Allamuchy JORBA Chapter)

My feelings on why the DEP had stopped the race was because of misunderstandings and egos. Also, one can say the DEP has themselves to blame. Reason being is that anyone can have a special event for $55 permit fee with no requirements for pre or post TM. (I have been working on getting this changed). Where you are wrong is that there has been no TM (onther than building several bridges) by the Ridge Riders in the past, and there was not requirement for it. On the other hand, TM by mountian bikers has been going on for 15 years or so in the park.

So, my last question for you Mark is - You feel the trails in Allamuchy are ruined due to past races being run in the rain and are now unsuitable for your use?

Bob W.
 

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There definitely was TM by the Ridge Riders (motorcyclists) in the past, beyond building bridges. Numerous times while out there I saw them doing it. They explained to me that they even had a permit (or at least permission) to ride the trails before the race to do it. As a matter of fact, they said that they weren't allowed on the trails unless they were doing trail maintenance. This is not to say the mountain bikers weren't out there also doing TM at the same time.

And while they did some post race TM, there was a lot of damage after races that were in the wet.

As far as past Allamuchy races in the rain, unsuitable is not the word, but the trails are YES in worse shape then they are before the race, when run in the rain. On the other side, in dry conditions the trails are in better shape. Like I said, I'm 110 % behind the race in dry weather, it is a plus for those trails. But after rainy races, there is damage, and damage that is still existent where areas were widened, also ruts were developed (there were numerous ruts after All Allamuchy), now I know most ruts eventually wear away but in the meantime there is a rut, I will also ad tape not taken down (has nothing to do with rain, but why was there tape from All Allamucy up for weeks, if not months after the race, so much so that I carried some out earlier this year?). Unsuitable? No. Trails in worse shape then before the race? Yes.

I support the race, I want the race to be there every year. I also want to be able to ride these trails for years to come. Running in the rain is not supporting anyones ability to ride for years to come. The motorcyclists thought they had a lock on the park, look what running in the rain and having races got them. When the trails get messed up, people get upset.
 

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Red voodoo and IMBAman,

Where to start…

Red – You asked for other peoples thought on the motorcycles and past history. I gave what my account was. This is based on my interactions with the Ridge Riders and the Park staff. Perhaps I should not have made the comment “this is where you were wrong”. Ok. No big deal. I would extent the same offer to you as I did imbaman, let me know where there is rutting or other trail damage due to one of the races and I (yes I as in me) will fix it. I do take exception to the claim that caution tape was left up for months after All-A-Muchy. This was not the case. I will leave it at that, I am sure others will agree. Oh, BTW I have gotten your email regarding the one section you think should be re-routed. Still not 100% sure where you are talking about. Between the trail out of the BS Camp and Freakin Middle?

Imbaman – Attacking, what are you smokin’??? Someone asked for thoughts I provided mine. Plain and simple. I don’t think I attached anyone. (Except maybe you in the past as a response to one of you posts.) Take a look in the mirror, here you go attacking me for responding to someone else question (perhaps you should be the one to have a slice of humble pie!)

I actual don’t care if you show up to an organized TM or not. My point, which you missed, is that you contacted me regarding TM; that is unless you are not Dan Mathews? (or maybe you are another Dan M???) Again, I asked you to point out areas of trail that were damaged and again you dodge the question. Typical! As far as being on a high horse and thinking of oneself as a Trail God, please. I am not even going to comment further on that one.

Dan you racing at Lew Mo this weekend??? Sport class right, or have you moved up to Expert???

See ya, (maybe not since I don’t know you)

Bob W.
 

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Why do you guys even bother to respond to this guy? He accuses others of being single minded and attack those with different opinions and yet he’s doing the same thing. He obviously has no credibility and can't back up anything he claims. Oh, he rides there and does TM on his own... how convenient is that so nobody can prove or disprove any of that. And I’m sure he knows what he’s doing in maintaining trails and doesn’t believe that a team effort is better than just one person trying to do it all. I’m sure he’s strong enough to move logs and large rocks all by himself. Give me a break.

Just let him rant. If we all just ignore him then maybe he’ll go away and bother the skiers for encouraging the skiing industry to cut down trees to make trails or something.
 
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