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So I rode a Pivot mach 4 for about two hours and although it was pretty nice, I also thought that the added weight didn't make up for the slight reduction in pedal bob.

My question for owners is does the reduction in pedal bob during xc usage make the extra bike weight worth having? Also, these are pretty darn expensive so is this a must have? I can't imagine racing one of these beasts even with a very lightweight setup. The base price is shocking but doable yet I'd have to drop another 1 or 2k just to lighten the beast up.

Thoughts?
 

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Slight reduction in pedal bob vs what? I'm kinda interested in the Mach 429, but you're right, the sticker is shockingly high. On an aside, I also think that for that much $$$ you ought to get longer than a 3 year warranty. I already can already anticipate the responses that comment will generate, but it's just my opinion.
 

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What sort of riding are you looking to do with this new bike? Not that I like all the BS monicures, but XC, AM, light FR? How tall are you and what's your build and ridinng style - basher or line picker?

The frames are rather pricey, that's for sure, $2200 for frame only could buy you a very decent cxomplete bike. What's your old bike? Have you taken a look at the Giant Maestro designs like the AnthemX or TranceX? They pedal very good and if you look through this forum you'll find a recent post about racing a Pivot where the guy has actually moved to an Anthem instead of the Pivot. If you're a tall guy, have you considered a 29er?
 

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Konish said:
Slight reduction in pedal bob vs what? I'm kinda interested in the Mach 429, but you're right, the sticker is shockingly high. On an aside, I also think that for that much $$$ you ought to get longer than a 3 year warranty. I already can already anticipate the responses that comment will generate, but it's just my opinion.
What comparable bike do you know of that has a warranty longer than 3 years? I'd suggest that not many riders that are buying a $2200 frame and riding the same frame 4 years later, at least not many people that I know.
 

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RogerDoger said:
So I rode a Pivot mach 4 for about two hours and although it was pretty nice, I also thought that the added weight didn't make up for the slight reduction in pedal bob.

My question for owners is does the reduction in pedal bob during xc usage make the extra bike weight worth having? Also, these are pretty darn expensive so is this a must have? I can't imagine racing one of these beasts even with a very lightweight setup. The base price is shocking but doable yet I'd have to drop another 1 or 2k just to lighten the beast up.

Thoughts?
Less "pedal bob" is just a tiny piece of the equation. The biggest gains that riders see is a significant improvement in traction, improvements in frame stiffness, and less energy loss. Although the Mach 4 is not the absolute lightest 4" travel bike that you can buy, the difference in 350 grams (.75 lb) in frame weight can't make up for that suspension improvement.

I feel that too many riders get all caught up in weight, much more so than really matters. Yes, a lighter bike CAN help you in most cases, but there are other aspects of a frame (like suspension and geometry) that can make for a much better performing and faster bike. Plus, the difference in spec one way or the other can make the Mach 4 VERY light as necessary, 22 lbs. for a medium I believe. Who needs a bike lighter than that?
 

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_dw said:
What comparable bike do you know of that has a warranty longer than 3 years? I'd suggest that not many riders that are buying a $2200 frame and riding the same frame 4 years later, at least not many people that I know.
I guess I don't know of any comparable bike that has a greater than 3 year warranty. I can't speak for many riders, so I don't know how long people intend on riding a $2200 frame, but I for sure would. That still does not change my opinion that the 3 year warranties on uber-expensive bikes/frames is too short. 5 years seems reasonable to me. Again it's my opinion...don't lose any sleep over it.
 

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_dw said:
I feel that too many riders get all caught up in weight, much more so than really matters. Yes, a lighter bike CAN help you in most cases, but there are other aspects of a frame (like suspension and geometry) that can make for a much better performing and faster bike.
I could not agree more! Weight is but one variable that effects the way a bike performs. It just happens to be the one variable that is the easiest to quantify and thus the obsession for so many consumers. There is no denying that the static weight of the bike does have an effect in terms of the speed with which a rider can get that bike up a hill, but personally I believe that the impact of weight is overstated as compared to other less easily quantified variables like weight distribution, chassis rigidity, suspension action and geometry. I'll always choose a bike that pedals better, shifts better, rails corners and simply feels more solid and stable beneath me, even at the expense of some weight.
 

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_dw said:
What comparable bike do you know of that has a warranty longer than 3 years? I'd suggest that not many riders that are buying a $2200 frame and riding the same frame 4 years later, at least not many people that I know.
i would tend to agree if that bike is your main bike or you otherwise ride it alot. many times, in my own experience with my own bikes, the reason i'm not on the same frame is because it got warrentied... i think the weight obsession thing factors into the frame design and manufacturing as well... resulting in lighter frames that push the limit of the strength vs. weight thing...

i finally gave up on the whole weight thing and got a frame that could handle stuff in excess of my riding ability... or should i say bravery (an el guapo... but i promise i would have gotten the firebird if it had come out a little earlier)... took a major weight penalty, but i love the ride! i think i would consider a sub 6" travel bike again (although, i love the fox 36 fork...) if i thought it would handle aggressive riding (i.e. stuff with less that five feet or less of vertical air as an example)...
 

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I would agree. 3 years seems a little short to me. My Mach 5 replaces a 2004 Gary Fisher hardtail, and I expect that this bike lasts me at least 7-8 years. I know I'll have to maintain it, but dropping this kind of cash on a bike every 3-4 years, and my wife would want a divorce! For people that race, and do this all the time, maybe 3 years is standard, but for the rest of us, we tend to keep our bikes longer, which is why we research, and find the best bike we think fits the situation, which I think I did with the Mach 5.

I agree about weight. I went with the XTR build, but mainly, just to try and keep the weight closer to what I was used to with my hardtail. I've added some weight in a few places, to make some improvements, but I'm not that concerned with it.
 

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There's been discussion on weight in the 29er forum, the consensus seems to be rotational weight, wheel, tire, tube, is the greatest culprit for a weight penalty. My Mach 429 "feels" faster than my Lenz Leviathan but is 2lb heavier. The DW Link is down low and does not effect handling negatively, the bike is stable, fast and a climber. Money is more of an issue than weight, empty your pockets and ride.
 

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But is it really? very curious if you rode them back to back on the same trail what your times would be like. You may well get slightly better acceleration on the 429, but I'd more atribute that to the 26" wheels, not the actual bike.

Maheoway said:
There's been discussion on weight in the 29er forum, the consensus seems to be rotational weight, wheel, tire, tube, is the greatest culprit for a weight penalty. My Mach 429 "feels" faster than my Lenz Leviathan but is 2lb heavier. The DW Link is down low and does not effect handling negatively, the bike is stable, fast and a climber. Money is more of an issue than weight, empty your pockets and ride.
 

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Yep, rotational weight seems to be the biggest thing. I however, added rotors that were about twice as heavy as the originals...but oh, well. at least they are close to the hubs, somewhat. My wheels, tires, and slime will be fairly light, so that helps. No tubes for me.
 

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My bad :???: I guess then it's the bike :dope: Wasn't trying to be negative, just thought it was a 26" wheel comparison to a 29" wheel on acceleration. A Multi Link suspension is going to pedal a lot better than the Lenz design - I'd say single pivot, but it's not really :???. Are the wheels and tyres the same on both bikes? Because if you had the Lev built up lighter, but had better lighter wheels on the :pivot, it'd be a no brainer as to why iit felt lighter.

So what's the 4" travel 26" wheeled version called?
_dw said:
The 429 has 29" wheels..
 

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RogerDoger said:
So I rode a Pivot mach 4 for about two hours and although it was pretty nice, I also thought that the added weight didn't make up for the slight reduction in pedal bob.

My question for owners is does the reduction in pedal bob during xc usage make the extra bike weight worth having? Also, these are pretty darn expensive so is this a must have? I can't imagine racing one of these beasts even with a very lightweight setup. The base price is shocking but doable yet I'd have to drop another 1 or 2k just to lighten the beast up.

Thoughts?
I don't own a pivot but have ridden the Mach 5 and Firebird.

I'd like to address the above questions first. All full suspension bikes will have pedal bob regardless of suspension design or shock being used even when properly set up. This is why we have platform or propedal in rear shocks. Is the extra weight worth it? I think it is.

Yes, these frames are expensive in comparison to other complete bikes. You can still find frames that are not custome that cost more though. Companies like Pivot, Ibis, Yeti, Turner, Ventana, etc. have similar or higher prices but some will be better than others. As the consumer you have decide how much money something is worth to be able to justify it.

The Mach 4 may not be a the lightest xc race bike out there but I don't think they are claiming it is either. If you wanted a super light race bike you wouldn't be looking at Pivot. You would likely be considering a Scott if that were the case.

If you want a "life time" (note the quotations) frame warranty look into Turner or Ventana. Both offer this warranty in one form or another. Frames are warrantied up to 3 years but you have the option of trading in one of their frames in any condition for credit to purchase a new one. There aren't many companies doing that for anything.

If you are worried about money why not go the route others have recommended and look at a Giant Anthem X1 that would likely weigh less than the Mach 4 for $3500.

Just my .02

Best of luck with whatever you end up with.
 

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LyNx said:
My bad :???: I guess then it's the bike :dope: Wasn't trying to be negative, just thought it was a 26" wheel comparison to a 29" wheel on acceleration. A Multi Link suspension is going to pedal a lot better than the Lenz design - I'd say single pivot, but it's not really :???. Are the wheels and tyres the same on both bikes? Because if you had the Lev built up lighter, but had better lighter wheels on the :pivot, it'd be a no brainer as to why iit felt lighter.

As stated both bikes are 29ers, they're both built the same, XTR, Stan's 355's w/CK hubs, tires on the Lenz are WW 2.55, on the 429 Bontrager ACX 2.4. My point was about a feel and the fact the heavier bike, all else being "equal", felt faster. There's also a confidence factor, the 429 is new and I'm not comfortable with the front end, I've lowered my bar and have been pleased so far.The spec's I've seen, Lenz frame 5.3lb, the Pivot 7.2lb, considerable difference. Weight is just one consideration, the 429 does not penalize the rider inspite of the additional weight of the XC anti bob factor.
 

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The Pivot prices are kind of high for how long they have been around. There prices are up there with Intense and Foes which have been making bikes for many many years and to the best of my knowledge are made in the USA -which always makes the bike more expensive. I would be interested in knowing if the higher cost is the result of the use of the DW patent.
 
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