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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the 29er shootout, the bikes all had big tires and tubes. The Intense Spyder weighed in at 27.90 lbs. It was also held back by the Bontrager wheels that were a tad flexy.

Now it's time for some mods. Pimp it out a little for specific needs.

I have a couple of Mikesee wheels and I9 wheels. The I9 wheels are ultralights with Stans rims. They weigh 1590 grams

Does using Stans save weight? Yes.
Tubes: 220g x 2
Tape: 15 x 2

Stans goop and tape: 110g x2

Weight savings is about 250 grams.

For tires I used:
Maxxis Ignitor 2.1: 600g
Bontrager XR 2.2 640 grams

These seem like nice big, light tires. The toal weight of the wheels is... 3050 grams. Very nice.

So I slap em on the Spider 29 and the weight goes down to 25.94 lbs. Weenies can prob'ly get this under 25 lbs with pedals, saddle, grip, etc.

Does wheel weight matter? Hellya! This is a whole new bike. It's like lightning. The fast tires and the stiff wheel definitely help too. This bike just transformed into a race bike. It is soo responsive!

Climbing with it, I barely had to shift gears. Getting out of the saddle is a delight with the VPP. The RP23 stable platform mode is unecessary. The Reba is a nice stable shock. But out of saddle, the poplock 'lockout' would be a nice tool.

So there, just some nice data to chew on. Remember that all the bikes in the shootout can probably lose 2 lbs. from the 'test weight' figures.

Next up... A slacker spider. I have a White Brothers 130mm and Maverick DU32 that want to play.

francois
 

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I find it hard to believe you can tell a 2.5 lb weight difference. I know I couldn't. In fact I rode a bike today that is 2-3 lbs heavier than my usual ride, and I could tell no difference.

Do you notice the difference between a full and 2/3 full Camel Back?

Granted the weight is in the wheels where it is more noticable. Maybe you are noticing tread pattern/rolling resistance more than anything, going from a "trail" tire to XC race tire.
 

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It takes me one minute or so to notice a 2lb difference in the wheels. I got to try it first hand when I completely changed out my boat anchor wheels on my and tubes on my GR Rig with something far lighter. I think the difference may have even been more noticeable on a SS.
 

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Enel said:
I find it hard to believe you can tell a 2.5 lb weight difference. I know I couldn't. In fact I rode a bike today that is 2-3 lbs heavier than my usual ride, and I could tell no difference.

Do you notice the difference between a full and 2/3 full Camel Back?

Granted the weight is in the wheels where it is more noticable. Maybe you are noticing tread pattern/rolling resistance more than anything, going from a "trail" tire to XC race tire.
If you haven't tried it yet - that is, a 2 lb. difference in wheel weight - you don't know what you're missing. Yes, you can feel it/tell it.

BB
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Enel said:
I find it hard to believe you can tell a 2.5 lb weight difference. I know I couldn't. In fact I rode a bike today that is 2-3 lbs heavier than my usual ride, and I could tell no difference.

Do you notice the difference between a full and 2/3 full Camel Back?

Granted the weight is in the wheels where it is more noticable. Maybe you are noticing tread pattern/rolling resistance more than anything, going from a "trail" tire to XC race tire.
Hellsya. I can tell the difference between wire bead and kevlar bead tires (same tire model, same everything else). I think most everyone can tell 2.5 lbs in wheels and tires. Not everyone can but most will be able to.

If you're curious, put 3 lbs of Slime sealant in your tires and go ride for 2 hours with a bunch of climbing. Not guaranteed but you might notice a difference.

Tread pattern, definitely noticeable too. Wheel stiffness, a little bit specially in acceleration.

francois
 

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Enel said:
I find it hard to believe you can tell a 2.5 lb weight difference. I know I couldn't. In fact I rode a bike today that is 2-3 lbs heavier than my usual ride, and I could tell no difference.

Do you notice the difference between a full and 2/3 full Camel Back?

Granted the weight is in the wheels where it is more noticable. Maybe you are noticing tread pattern/rolling resistance more than anything, going from a "trail" tire to XC race tire.
You've never taken even a 1lb off your wheels before have you? Weight savings from the wheels is MUCH more noticeable than anywhere else.
 

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Paging Cloxxki!!!

francois said:
Hellsya. I can tell the difference between wire bead and kevlar bead tires (same tire model, same everything else). I think most everyone can tell 2.5 lbs in wheels and tires. Not everyone can but most will be able to.

If you're curious, put 3 lbs of Slime sealant in your tires and go ride for 2 hours with a bunch of climbing. Not guaranteed but you might notice a difference.
He has done just this and his results were pretty interresting.

I would have to point out that this experiment is not really valid though. The water or sealant in the tires is NOT stationary, but rather it sloshes around when starting and stopping.

Still, I would have to put myself on the list of people that can NOT tell a huge difference in weight. I have known a few people that could, and a lot of people that THOUGHT they could (not pointing any fingers...if you can tell the difference, great).

At the end of the day, it is all about how much you enjoy what you do. Sweet looking bike, glad you like it!
 

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FC, is that my rasta stand you're using? :)

That spyder climbed really well before those changes. Can't wait to ride it now with the lighter setup. I see no more than 1.5lbs left in that build, and that is assuming going to 1x9. That build is already lightened up quite a bit.

I went from Stans/Ignitors to Stans/Rampages, and just those extra 400g slowed my bike down noticably. So much so, that as much as i love the extra traction, I'm going back to a Ignitor in the rear very soon.

Stans all the way!
 

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Once at speed, the water in a tubes (I put 3.5kg=8lb) in three), also gets up to speed. Just, it takes a bit longer to speed up than the wheels themselves. It feels like an energy sucker, but at speed it's okay, even with the weight working around a bit.

Myself I can tell 200g in tires, maybe even 100g. While I enjoy light wheels, I know in my heart it doesn't matter. I dive into a first corners with the same advantage, light or heavy bike/wheels. Wheel weight is all about feel, and happy signals to and from the brain. For going faster, there are other things to tune on your bike. Like aero overshoes, lower handlebars if you can "handle" them, swept bars, comfy seat, not too many closely spaces gears, etc. If I get to pick between a 25lb sponsor bike and my own way to build a bike of 27lb, all the extra weight in the wheels, I'd still get the heavy one for the other personalizations.

No doubt light wheel 29"ers will impress a rider thoug, they impress me.
 

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rensho said:
FC, is that my rasta stand you're using? :)

That spyder climbed really well before those changes. Can't wait to ride it now with the lighter setup. I see no more than 1.5lbs left in that build, and that is assuming going to 1x9. That build is already lightened up quite a bit.

I went from Stans/Ignitors to Stans/Rampages, and just those extra 400g slowed my bike down noticably. So much so, that as much as i love the extra traction, I'm going back to a Ignitor in the rear very soon.

Stans all the way!
Nice Francois. So wait, last I checked (which was a long time ago) Stans on 29ers was a no-no. I used to love to race with the first generation (pre-rim strips) Stans set up, but tried it on a 29er and they wouldnt stay on the rims. Is it ok now??
 

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Question for you guys. I run a heavy wheelset right now (XT's laced to delgado disc). I wanted to get the i9 and stans ultra light, but I'm a clyde at 215. I assume I would trash these wheels quick due to my size. Does anyone have a recommendation that could handle my weight? Riding style is typical trail riding. Lot's of rocks, roots, small drops (no more than 2ft.).
 

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Enel said:
I find it hard to believe you can tell a 2.5 lb weight difference. I know I couldn't. In fact I rode a bike today that is 2-3 lbs heavier than my usual ride, and I could tell no difference.
I wish I had that problem. Between my 26 lbs bike and a 29/30 lbs 5 Spot I could tell a huge difference. I had a couple long rides in Pisgah to sort it out too. Even in flat sections the bike is slower. I would like to put the same tires I have on my lighter bike on the 5 Spot though. I know from going through several pairs that this could mean a world of difference too.
 

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mud'n'sweat said:
Question for you guys. I run a heavy wheelset right now (XT's laced to delgado disc). I wanted to get the i9 and stans ultra light, but I'm a clyde at 215. I assume I would trash these wheels quick due to my size. Does anyone have a recommendation that could handle my weight? Riding style is typical trail riding. Lot's of rocks, roots, small drops (no more than 2ft.).
You would trash them, especially on a hardtail.

Stans has a heavier 470g rim out this month. At least use that in the rear.
 

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juansevo said:
You've never taken even a 1lb off your wheels before have you? Weight savings from the wheels is MUCH more noticeable than anywhere else.
You know little about what I have or have not taken on and off. I ride all kinds of bikes with all kinds of tire/wheel combos, and the biggest difference is between mountain type tires and road type tires, that is very noticable. I notice little difference in the various mountain tire combos (except rolling resistance).

I never noticed any improvement with/without Stan's (except flat resistance).

So take your pick of the below reasons I can't tell a lot of difference on the trail:

1. I am insensitive to this significant change(seems to be the general consensus).

2. I am so insanely strong I just overpower the difference.

3. I am so incredibly heavy that as a percentage it is insignificant.

4. I ride so slow it doesn't matter.

5. There really isn't a lot of difference other than weight weenie hype.

Nothing wrong with losing a few pounds, especially in the wheels, but is it worth the time, money and energy to me. No.

I read some where that weight savings on a bike comes down to about a dollar per gram. Can you confirm this Francis? You lost about 900 grams, how much would it cost to do this conversion?
 

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I have a friend who is about 150lbs that has the most amazing power to weight ratio of anyone I have ever ridden with, the guy is a monster, he can attack and clean technical climbs on a 30 plus lb bike like no one...

one time, I was asking him if he could tell the difference between tire A and B
he said "I don't f'n know, I pedal harder, I go faster"

love that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Go Kart Motzart said:
I think the wheel vs. static weight thing is waaay overblown.

That said, lighter is always better for climbing no matter where the weight is.
I actually think the opposite. Lighter is not a huge deal when it comes to climbing. Climbing is 95% training and will power.

Try going up a 1000 foot hill.
Now do it again with a 3 lb. weight in your camelback.

There's not that much difference. Analyticcycling.com says a few seconds. Their math is good.

Wheel weight on the other hand is more noticeable.
Try doing a 5 mile technical singletrack that climbs and descends, with lots of twisties and obstacles.
- now try it again with 3 lbs added to the tires or tubes.

The latter experience will not be as good.

francois
 
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