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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I mentioned this deep in another thread ~ Maybe DT is considering some carbon for the not so near future, but that's just speculation.

Nonetheless, a carbon front triangle from Edge with a Al rear end from Turner would indeed be my dream ride.

Edge is American made, has high standards, and is pricey. Just like Turner.

Their carbon rims get stellar reviews as being light and very tough, and they use several proprietary production techniques that would lend themselves well to frames.

Anyhoo, I'm just throwin' this out there hoping to put a bug in Dave's ear.
 

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juan_speeder said:
I mentioned this deep in another thread ~ Maybe DT is considering some carbon for the not so near future, but that's just speculation.

Nonetheless, a carbon front triangle from Edge with a Al rear end from Turner would indeed be my dream ride.

Edge is American made, has high standards, and is pricey. Just like Turner.

Their carbon rims get stellar reviews as being light and very tough, and they use several proprietary production techniques that would lend themselves well to frames.

Anyhoo, I'm just throwin' this out there hoping to put a bug in Dave's ear.
I had to go look it up.

http://www.edgecomposites.com/

If you're going to do carbon, may as well do it right. Looks like this is one company still doing it right.
 

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Possible...?

Like almost anything else, Alex already beat you to it.

It's a 29'er no less!

The first one I ever saw was at the 2004 Chili Challenge.
 

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Alex Morgan whoop as

Alex beat the industry in a few different things! Notably the gear box bike that GT thinks they were first with. When the geared hub kept blowing up Alex put a road derailer 'in a box' with a cog set and that is what I hear that Honda bikes had in the end, not some crazy cams and whatevers. The dude is a genius, and a hella fast rider on top of that.

DT
 

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turnerbikes said:
Alex beat the industry in a few different things! Notably the gear box bike that GT thinks they were first with. When the geared hub kept blowing up Alex put a road derailer 'in a box' with a cog set and that is what I hear that Honda bikes had in the end, not some crazy cams and whatevers. The dude is a genius, and a hella fast rider on top of that.

DT
Well, Truvativ is definitely onto something with the "cams and whatevers". No problems with the Hammerschmidt and I've put plenty of hard miles on mine.

So, I guess your just going to leave the door wide open Dave? Your normal response would have included some amount of dismissiveness if you had not actually entertained the idea of carbon:skep:
 

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Mtn. Biker123 said:
Well, Truvativ is definitely onto something with the "cams and whatevers". No problems with the Hammerschmidt and I've put plenty of hard miles on mine.

So, I guess your just going to leave the door wide open Dave? Your normal response would have included some amount of dismissiveness if you had not actually entertained the idea of carbon:skep:
I guaranty he's looking into it.
 

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Dont do it Dave! :nonod:

Leave the plastic bikes,bendy tubes and shaped swagered tubesets to the posers.
 

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I'm willing to bet there is already a rendering floating around somewhere. Especially with all of the reviews comparing frame weights.
 

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Fook that.
I'd wouldn't even try a carbon bike.







Never is a very long time ppl. After changing course and going with the TNT, Sultan and the DW, I'd be suprised if DT said NFW about anything.
It may not happen, but it is possible.
 

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Bikezilla said:
Fook that.
I'd wouldn't even try a carbon bike.







Never is a very long time ppl. After changing course and going with the TNT, Sultan and the DW, I'd be suprised if DT said NFW about anything.
It may not happen, but it is possible.
I still think he could have gotten around enterprising with DW. That's one of the reasons that my '06 TNT is so precious. It stands for something. I couldn't care either way because it will be well out of my price range....I know I better get a demo or there will be hell to pay;)
 

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Edge Composites? Boy, I would love a made-in-the-USA carbon 29er xc endurance racer from Turner, but don't Edge rims cost around a thousand bucks a pair? Hard to believe they could make an entire FS frame for Turner that could retail for under $3.5K. Ouch. I've loved every Turner I've had, but we've all got a "price pain point", so I don't know about Edge. I sure don't want to see mountain bikes go the way of chi-chi French and Eye-talian road bike frames at upwards of $5k a pop. That might drive me back to steel hardtails.

Both my mtbs are made in the USA, and I love that, but I'm not sure it can be done at anything approaching a reasonable price, unless you are giant sized company like maybe Trek.

I hope somebody can prove me wrong!
 

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hmmm

Well everyone must have fallen over dead at Kosmo's assumption of the cost of a US made carbon bike, so subject de-railed. I will re rail it on 123 though... What do you have against the dw-link??? I see you in another forum hoping and cheering for some dw like performing version of something that is not dw 'cause why? You don't like his initials? Have your ridden a Firebird? Did it not crush the old Turner RFX while climbing with even more travel? Do you care if a bike pedals well. It's fine if you don't. Most of the world is riding bikes that don't pedal near as well as a dw-link bike and they have fun. But my job is to make better and better bikes, and the dw-link makes the best pedaling bike, I just keep reading your public wishes for a fantastic bike, but not dw-link and I have wondered.

DT
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Morw pontificating

I'm just sayin' that a carbon front tri could be sold as an upgrade, not necessarily as the stock model. I suspect that DT will offer aluminum bikes for the next decade, at least.

Sell carbon front triangles with conservative design goals, say 15% lighter and 15% stiffer. Make the RFX weigh the same but be 25% stiffer. Have a 5 year warranty instead of 2.

It all sounds reasonable to me :rolleyes:
 

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I have Edge handlebars and they're very trick...would love to see them get into frames!!

Just as a reference point, their bars aren't all that much more than other name-branded (easton, etc.) CF bars.
 

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Why do I hate DW...?

turnerbikes said:
Well everyone must have fallen over dead at Kosmo's assumption of the cost of a US made carbon bike, so subject de-railed. I will re rail it on 123 though... What do you have against the dw-link??? I see you in another forum hoping and cheering for some dw like performing version of something that is not dw 'cause why? You don't like his initials? Have your ridden a Firebird? Did it not crush the Turner climbing with even more travel? Do you care if a bike pedals well. It's fine if you don't. Most of the world is riding bikes that don't pedal near as well as a dw-link bike and they have fun. But my job is to make better and better bikes, and the dw-link makes the best pedaling bike, I just keep reading your public wishes for a fantastic bike, but not dw-link and I have wondered.

DT

In short licensing fees cost me money. Do you think that a genius like Alex Morgan would ever resort to paying unnecessary licensing fees? I have met Alex and I don't think that he would. I could be wrong though. When I first started reading about Dave Turner you struck me as having a similar character. The TNT debacle only strengthened my intuition. Looking back do you really believe that the TNT was on par with the Horst link? Or was it an acceptable compromise to paying the fee? It's questionable IMO.

So, after my test ride on the spot, I was not at all impressed. I was ready to be impressed, but I wasn't. It creaked, flexed, and bottomed. After I set it up correctly it became harsh and the comfort level deteriorated. My RFX is still the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. Granted one could invest in all of the aftermarket products to achieve the same level of comfort/performance from the DW, but then that defeats the purpose of upgrading the design vs just investing in quality aftermarket parts.

It was a bit of a shocker to find out that you would pay a fee for a design that IMO provided very little/if any overall improvement. That translates to all of your potential and existing customers paying that fee as well. I do understand though. It would appear that your own generosity and prior considerations may have left you with nowhere to go as far as something new. It was obvious that the market was starting to explode with "better" stuff. You were/are innovative by many other companies standards, but again, quality products and excellent CS seem to be the norm these days. You gotta compete, right? I don't envy your position in the least, but I would have thought that you would have done a better job of explaining your reasoning besides just simply saying the DW link is simply the best. And I certainly would have thought that you would have exhausted every measure to design something new in house.

I have yet to see anything revolutionary in the RFX except a lot of conformity to "so called" industry standards. It's obvious that the industry as a whole caters to the weekend warrior that spends a lot and rides very little. Not to the riders that really punish their equipment. It's real easy to inflate costs when you are selling the impression that expensive equates to performance.

I don't pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors or that I am any kind of expert. This is the internet, I don't have to be. Since I'm not privy to discussing my thoughts with you in person, I am obliged to speculate, just as Juan Speeder did with this very thread. I could be wrong, I could be right, but something that I said must have grabbed your attention.

My interest in Chumba was nothing more than to get Alan to spill the beans. And provide some feedback that I think will benefit his customers ( our community ). No matter what I think about Allen though, as I started to critique the frames they actually started to look good on paper. I wouldn't mind having a more purebred XC horse in the stable if there was something that offered as much versatility as my RFX., so, played devils advocate in the hope that my opinions would weigh in on the new design. I think Allen is an idiot...BTW.

Well, I think that about covers it. I will say that I am happy to be a Turner customer. There is some awesome history behind the frames that I own. It's tough to see a generation of riders get pushed by the wayside for the buying tendencies of those consumers who can afford the latest and greatest year after year.

...and yeah, his initials on your bike kinda bug me!:p :lol:
 

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Mtn. Biker123 said:
In short licensing fees cost me money. Do you think that a genius like Alex Morgan would ever resort to paying unnecessary licensing fees? I have met Alex and I don't think that he would. I could be wrong though. When I first started reading about Dave Turner you struck me as having a similar character. The TNT debacle only strengthened my intuition. Looking back do you really believe that the TNT was on par with the Horst link? Or was it an acceptable compromise to paying the fee? It's questionable IMO.

So, after my test ride on the spot, I was not at all impressed. I was ready to be impressed, but I wasn't. It creaked, flexed, and bottomed. After I set it up correctly it became harsh and the comfort level deteriorated. My RFX is still the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. Granted one could invest in all of the aftermarket products to achieve the same level of comfort/performance from the DW, but then that defeats the purpose of upgrading the design vs just investing in quality aftermarket parts.

It was a bit of a shocker to find out that you would pay a fee for a design that IMO provided very little/if any overall improvement. That translates to all of your potential and existing customers paying that fee as well. I do understand though. It would appear that your own generosity and prior considerations may have left you with nowhere to go as far as something new. It was obvious that the market was starting to explode with "better" stuff. You were/are innovative by many other companies standards, but again, quality products and excellent CS seem to be the norm these days. You gotta compete, right? I don't envy your position in the least, but I would have thought that you would have done a better job of explaining your reasoning besides just simply saying the DW link is simply the best. And I certainly would have thought that you would have exhausted every measure to design something new in house.

I have yet to see anything revolutionary in the RFX except a lot of conformity to "so called" industry standards. It's obvious that the industry as a whole caters to the weekend warrior that spends a lot and rides very little. Not to the riders that really punish their equipment. It's real easy to inflate costs when you are selling the impression that expensive equates to performance.

I don't pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors or that I am any kind of expert. This is the internet, I don't have to be. Since I'm not privy to discussing my thoughts with you in person, I am obliged to speculate, just as Juan Speeder did with this very thread. I could be wrong, I could be right, but something that I said must have grabbed your attention.

My interest in Chumba was nothing more than to get Alan to spill the beans. And provide some feedback that I think will benefit his customers ( our community ). No matter what I think about Allen though, as I started to critique the frames they actually started to look good on paper. I wouldn't mind having a more purebred XC horse in the stable if there was something that offered as much versatility as my RFX., so, played devils advocate in the hope that my opinions would weigh in on the new design. I think Allen is an idiot...BTW.

Well, I think that about covers it. I will say that I am happy to be a Turner customer. There is some awesome history behind the frames that I own. It's tough to see a generation of riders get pushed by the wayside for the buying tendencies of those consumers who can afford the latest and greatest year after year.

...and yeah, his initials on your bike kinda bug me!:p :lol:
It just sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

You didn't mention anything about the ride quality of DW's.

You do mention not wanting to pay for his designs.

We should be grateful for partnerships like this - they provide us better products. DT knows bikes and manufacturing like no body's business. DW knows all the physics of suspension that most of us aren't even smart enough to understand, much less invent.

You mentioned in another thread that "4 years ago you (sic) didn't even know what suspension was." - now you're an expert?
 

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I would rather DW initials on my Turner than a green ICT sticker! mtnbiker123 It's funny that you didn't like the Spot - I have owned an 05 and 06 and just got a 10 DW - the DW out performs the 05 Horst and the 06 TNT in every way - plus it's slightly slacker with a 150mm fork which I enjoy and loses none of it's ability to climb the steeps. I think if you can get past the cost a DW RFX would make your RFX and Highline redundant. I also think it's fair to say that many, many people prefer the DW versions over the TNT / Horst version Turners. Not saying you are wrong but am surprised!!!!!! I am reserving judgement on whether a 2010 Spot can replace my light build (Fox 36 RC2, RP23, 819 rimmed) 08 RFX though. I am beginning to step up my game somewhat on the RFX so may even keep both and get burlier wheels and coil front and back on the RFX.
 

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Why don't you STFU and listen for a change.

You read whatever you wanted into my little spiel and then you offer up your interpretation of an answer to a question that wasn't even asked of you? I could say the same about you. Are you just defending your purchase? 4 years or twenty years does not make anyone an expert if they are not open minded. I was very much impartial of DW prior to actually riding one.

When you're actually riding (as opposed to walking) the type of terrain that I frequent, then I might be partial to your opinion. Until then just bask in the glory of your DW and be content to fantasize about "mountain biking".
 

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juan_speeder said:
I can only assume that you typed that manifesto on a Linux machine :D
Shouldn't you be posting pictures of viscous monkey attacks or something:p ?
 
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