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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been riding AM mostly, but went to Ray's for the first time recently and had a blast. Thinking hard about building an urban/dj/park bike. Considering the Black Market Riot frame with an Argyle fork, and either a ss or 1x9 drivetrain. Still thinking through the details.

Had a couple questions on the Black Market Riot frame. Any difference in the 2008 vs 2009 models, other than the colors? How do the campy style hiddensets and head tubes hold up to the abuse?

Thanks for any input.
 

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just go for the 2008 model and save yourself some coin. riot+argyle is a good combo too, and I recommend dropping it to 80mm.

go SS first, and then decide whether it's worth the extra 150+ bucks to go 1x9. it's just more things to break.
 

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Just to hammer in the point on why you shouldn't worry about model years, I don't think the geo has changed since black market became a legitimate company. It must be good. And every other company has jumped on their back and rode the wave( I think Carter should bust a cap in their ass).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the comments

Naw, I wasn't worried about geo changes. Sounds like the Black Market geo has been tried and true for a while, and much copied as was stated. Just wondering if there had been any other tweaks that might warrant a 2009 vs a 2008. Still a few discounts around on the 2008 frames, but really liking the new grey for the 2009 frames. Decisions, decisions... Thankfully there area couple good threads on Black Market builds in the forum to help.

Yeah, leaning heavily toward the ss with a proper ss wheel in the back. I will be cruising the forum some more to see who makes some descent ss wheels for some reasonable coin.

Didn't realize that BMX and most urban/dj/park bikes were running internal headsets. I would have thought that running the bearings directly on the frame instead of in cups would have tended to wear out the bearing lands in the head tube, especially given the higher level of abuse on these bikes. Easy to replace cups. Not so easy to replace head tubes. On the other hand, there does not seem to be a lot of negative feedback in the forum on integrated headsets, so maybe not the issue I thought it might be.
 

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yeah, the argyle is a bit heavy, but it definitely makes up for it in strength. I've hit mine pretty hard a few times and its fine. my bike isn't exactly a porker either, at a hair under 29 lbs. sure, I could drop almost 2 pounds going to a velvet R, but then I like my 20mm axle :thumbsup:

Also, I say just go with a standard mtb wheel in back unless you're really going to be abusing it. if you're going to be beating up a rear wheel, you might benefit from the dishless wheel a SS build will give you, but you do lose some versatility. might suck if you decided that you're going to want gears in the future. my vote goes to outlaws or revolutions. both great wheelsets for a good price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the thoughts on the rear wheel. I have the BLT for trails. Do you find the gears handy for urban/park/Ray's?

Yeah, I like the 20mm. I put a Pike coil on my BLT earlier this year. The 20mm made a world of difference on the front end and the coil is a lot plusher on the trail than the air spring that came with the bike

Definitely planning to stick with a 20mm on this build as well. The Argyle seems to get a lot of love. I am more interested in getting something that can take some abuse rather than worrying about a little weight. How is the coil on the Argyle? I understand it comes stock with the firmest spring available. Can it take the abuse of a 200 lb newbie that will certainly blow some landings?
 

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for me, the usefulness of a geared setup will be more apparent for things outside of urban/dj/park/rays type things. it's very useful if you move into any speed related branches like dual slalom or 4X. even though a blk mrkt isn't the ideal weapon for these courses, they do damn well by themselves. it's more a matter of having options in the future if you're unsure on what You're going to be doing.

my fork is nice. I have the 318 with coil and MoCo damper. coil is super plush, but doesn't really suck up lips all too much. I'm 185ish and it's not a problem. also, the damper is really functional. 6 clicks, from super plush great for rough DJ's and 4x tracks, and full on for super stiff with enough squish to take off the edge. rebound works, just pull the knob off and stash it in a backpack before it takes itself off (like mine did). some heavier oil will help make the compression a bit stiffer for DJ purposes, and there's preload spacers included to help with you being a tad heavier than I.

also, drop it to 80mm. the blk mrkts handle nicely at that travel setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the tips. Not too many opportunities for dual slalom or 4X around here, but you never know, maybe someday.

Yeah, I really like the Motion Control on the Pike I put on the BLT. You can run it nice and squishy for the trails and firm it up a lot for urban/park. Not the ideal ride for urban/park, but it's all I got right now. For Ray's, I dial the floodgate up and set the compression near lock. It seems to hold the lips and works fairly well on the pump track. The rear end is a little more of a problem, the the Riot will fix that.

Was definitely leaning toward the 318 Argyle. It's not much more coin than the 302 and worth the slight weight penalty. Sounds like the 318 has the floodgate fixed at the stiff end, which is where I would leave it all the time for urban/park anyway. Nice to know it comes with spacers for more preload.

An 80mm fork seems to be a common theme for the Black Market geo, so I'll plan to do that up front.

Thanks again...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Bryguy17 said:
for me, the usefulness of a geared setup will be more apparent for things outside of urban/dj/park/rays type things. it's very useful if you move into any speed related branches like dual slalom or 4X. even though a blk mrkt isn't the ideal weapon for these courses, they do damn well by themselves. it's more a matter of having options in the future if you're unsure on what You're going to be doing.

my fork is nice. I have the 318 with coil and MoCo damper. coil is super plush, but doesn't really suck up lips all too much. I'm 185ish and it's not a problem. also, the damper is really functional. 6 clicks, from super plush great for rough DJ's and 4x tracks, and full on for super stiff with enough squish to take off the edge. rebound works, just pull the knob off and stash it in a backpack before it takes itself off (like mine did). some heavier oil will help make the compression a bit stiffer for DJ purposes, and there's preload spacers included to help with you being a tad heavier than I.

also, drop it to 80mm. the blk mrkts handle nicely at that travel setting.
Parts are coming together for the Riot build. Got the Argyle 318 today. Thinking about lowering it to 80mm while I wait for a few more parts to complete the build. I have done work on my Pike, so I am pretty comfortable opening up the fork. Just wondering what, if anything, I need to buy before opening it up. I may be blind, but I can't seem to find anything on the web or from RS about lowering the Argyle.

Can anyone point me to an obvious thread that I am missing, or provide a high level summary.

Thanks,
 

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i think you'll need new crush washers for the bottom bolt, and new oil if you want it. other than that I think it's just a matter of moving around the spacers from whatever place to another. I forget exactly right now though. still need to go do it to my fork...
 

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Looks like most of your questions were already answered so I can back them up. Integrated headsets are fine. Just get a 45/45 angular contact version (not the 36/45). They hold up fine.

Argyle 318 has been awesome for me. Lowered to 80mm and the spring was perfect for me at 186lbs. Near locked with some give with the MoCo dialed and perfect plushness for DJ with it opened. It really is a great fork.

Lowering the Argyle is easy. Do a google search and you will find one that has a good picture step by step instructions. It takes about 10 minutes. All you need is an allen wrench and a socket (or adjustable) to get the top cap off.

Here is a good one:
https://rlee560.pinkbike.com/blog/lowerargyle.html

You will love the ride. I built a Riot and then swapped everything over to a Mob. It is by far THE best bike I have ever ridden.

 

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I have a reign x for trails and a singlespeed nightrain for jumps etc. I used the nightrain at rays and was fine with single speed, and didn't even feel an overwhelming need for a front brake either, but it would have been nice.

Only place that gears would have helped much is the cross country loop going up one of the hills, but that thing is somewhat boring anyways. I could still make it up, just a little slow.

If possible you could get 9spd wheels and singlespeed them for now, to have the option of gears in the future. I know nothing about blk market bikes so i don't know if they can even run gears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yeah, after talking to a number of people, I ended up going the ss conversion route with a standard 9 spd cassette. Picked up a Transition Revolution 36 wheelset in the discontinued brown color on clearance. Going to run a 28x14 for starters with the Surly conversion kit.

Thanks for the pinkbike link. I searched all over mtbr, but should have hit google first. Surprised no one is making an aftermarket kit to lower the Argyle.

I will start a new thread to cover the build and throw up some pics.
 

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iirc, you should be able to just place that spacer that sits on top of the spring (the white one in the pinkbike pictures) between the top-out spring and the spring shaft stopper. then you just need one of the white preload spacers that comes with the fork to go on top of the spring to space it from the top cap.

I could be wrong though, but that's how I understood how things worked before I saw that pinkbike link.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Swapping the factory spacer to the bottom of the stack will drop the Argyle travel to 70mm. Great, if that is what you want. But if you want an 80mm Argyle then you will need to swap the factory spacer for aftermarket spacers or cut up the factory spacer, leaving 10mm on top of the stack and putting the remaining 20mm on the bottome of the stack. The saw cuts will take a few mm out of the overall stack, so you may have to add an additional pre-load washer to get back to the original pre-load you were running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Demo-9 said:
A new fork comes with I think 4 pre-load spacers that you use to lower the fork. I think I used all 4 spacers and lowered it to 80mm. I may have used another spacer from another fork though.
My Argyle came with 3 pre-load spacers. They are pretty thin, all 3 stacked together are only 10mm thick. I may be missing something, but just stacking pre-load washers on top on the spring sounds like it would increase the pre-load on the spring (lower sag), but I wouldn't think it would lower the fork. It would certainly lower the travel, but I think it would actually reduce sag, leaving you with a higher ride ht.

Did you mean that you took the factory spacer installed on the top of the spring stack, which is ~30mm thick and moved it to the bottom of the spring/spacer shaft with the bottom out spring, then added the 4 additional pre-load spacers on top of the spring stack?

This sounds like it would lower the fork 30mm and increase the pre-load by ~12mm (4 pre-load spacers) of spring compression, effectively taking 12mm out of the sag, so ride height would be 18mm lower and leaving 78mm of travel.

This is about the best/simplist solution I can come up with, so I will give it a try. I just plan to use the three pre-load spacers that came with my fork, so this should leave me with a fork lowered 30mm unloaded, with 10mm less sag, so only 20mm lowered when riding, and leaving 80mm of travel. I will post the results.

Man, I have gone through all the Google threads I can find along with all the drawings, parts lists and service instructions on the Rockshox site. There are a number of different "how-to" threads, some of them would work and some wouldn't. Rockshox advertises that the Argyle can be lowered to 80mm. Based on everything I have seen, it should be an easy mod with < $5 worth of parts, but Rockshox does not appear to sell a lowering kit, or even offer clear instructions on how to do it.
 

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I lowered my Argyle this morning. I read all the threads you probably have and wasn’t completely sure what to expect. I wound up cutting the log spacer on top of the spring and putting ~20mm of it on top of the neg spring. It was amazingly simple to do and I highly recommend just cutting this spacer and be done with it. I used a pipe cutter to cut the plastic piece thus its square and didn’t get any smaller. It would be no big deal to set the pieces back in stock order to raise it back to 100mm if you ever wanted to in the future.

The preload spacers won’t go on the lower shaft, the hole in the spacer is smaller than the shaft that the negative spring rides on so that suggestion isn’t really an option unless you dilled out their centers. My fork came with three of these spacers in the bag but there where 2 of them already inside the fork so that’s 5 total spacers you have to work with.
 
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