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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know of any other air shocks made in this length x stroke? I read on some thread about a swinger 4-way being made OEM in this size. But I don't see that information listed on their website for their OEM shocks.

The only air shock I can find is the DHX air, but it sure has had some mixed reviews which makes me wonder if there were some production issues or something?

Just thinking about loosing some more weight on the heckler but didn't want to loose any of my travel by going to a 50mm stroke shock. Though it's looking like that may be my best bet.

Thanks!
 

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noMAD man
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No 4-Way.

stiingya said:
Does anyone know of any other air shocks made in this length x stroke? I read on some thread about a swinger 4-way being made OEM in this size. But I don't see that information listed on their website for their OEM shocks.

The only air shock I can find is the DHX air, but it sure has had some mixed reviews which makes me wonder if there were some production issues or something?

Just thinking about loosing some more weight on the heckler but didn't want to loose any of my travel by going to a 50mm stroke shock. Though it's looking like that may be my best bet.

Thanks!
Yeah, I think that OEM story is just a myth. I've never seen any evidence of a 2.25" stroke model, OEM or otherwise on the 4-Way. Maybe it will show up someday. What bike are you looking at running a 2.25" stroke? I'm using a DHX Air right now on a Bullit. I gotta say after getting it back from a "stuck down" condition, it's been working great. I'm probably going to post another report on this one later tonight. I've ridden it 5 times now since getting it back and feel like I'm getting a handle on it now as far as tuning goes.
 

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"El Whatever"
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I could be wrong but somebody wrote in this board that the Hecklers are using a Swinger in that lenght.

But you always have Cane-Creek and Risse who will make the shock in whatever size you want.
 

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Light, Strong and Long
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.....

The DHX air is a great shock, i've ridden on it a couple of times and have found it to be unbelievably smooth. I know manitou makes a Swinger 3way in that size and stroke. But thats really about it. I would really recomend the DHX air though.
 

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stiingya said:
Does anyone know of any other air shocks made in this length x stroke? I read on some thread about a swinger 4-way being made OEM in this size. But I don't see that information listed on their website for their OEM shocks.

The only air shock I can find is the DHX air, but it sure has had some mixed reviews which makes me wonder if there were some production issues or something?

Just thinking about loosing some more weight on the heckler but didn't want to loose any of my travel by going to a 50mm stroke shock. Though it's looking like that may be my best bet.

Thanks!
Cane Creek lists a Cloud 9 and AD12 for the Heckler. The C9 is nice and light but I think the DHX would be a better shock for more free-ridy riding...
 

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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The question was about a shock for a heckler. I have a Romic on it with the 2.25"stroke now. So I would rather keep that stroke/travel if I can, but would like to lighten up the bike more.

Manitou doesn't have any air shocks listed in that size on their website that I could find for this year or last. Though I don't think they list the size of OEM shocks. (at least they don't have the size listed for the Radium R and it's OEM only).

I have a VT2 with a 3 way air on it and I think that bike rides just as nice with the air shock as the heckler with the spring. I'm about 235ish with a 550lb spring on the romic, so I am set up good spring wise. But I really just don't feel that much difference in small bump complience that I always hear about spring shocks being better at taking over air shocks? So I'm just not thinking there is any reason for me to be riding with the heavier spring shock?

But at the same time, I have heard quite a few bad stories with the DHX. So I was kinda hoping I would find some other options out there.
 

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stiingya said:
So I was kinda hoping I would find some other options out there.
Yeah, I'm not sure you have many options with keeping that stroke. Progressive has an 5th Element air shock in 7.785x2.0 for the Heckler, but it's 51mm stroke as well. Look for a Ti spring instead maybe?

stiingya said:
But I really just don't feel that much difference in small bump complience that I always hear about spring shocks being better at taking over air shocks?
I've not ridden a DHX Air so take this with salt. The problem is that air expands when it heats up, so things get very bouncy if you work 'em harder than they can dissappate the heat. IME, XC is fine, rock gardens OK, but repeated big compressions aren't so good. Oil damping (like the DHX Air) helps a lot, and maybe you could do something clever with a negative spring to balance it... but I guess that's why Cane Creek and Ohlins made their coil sprung Double Barrel for more serious DH apps.
 

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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No I'm Spartacus said:
Yeah, I'm not sure you have many options with keeping that stroke. Progressive has an 5th Element air shock in 7.785x2.0 for the Heckler, but it's 51mm stroke as well. Look for a Ti spring instead maybe?
I've considered that, but the Ti spring weights the same as some whole air shocks, and costs nearly the same in some instances! :) And then the other thing is that so far I have yet to find an online source to purchase a Ti romic spring. I saw something on a website about buying a Ventana frame with a romic with the Ti spring option though. So I am sure there available somewhere? Anyone know a source?

I've not ridden a DHX Air so take this with salt. The problem is that air expands when it heats up said:
If air is expanding than wouldn't that actually firm up the shock? (I'm thinking that when the oposite happens and it get's cold out in the winter you always have to add air pressure to your car tires. The air's denser at colder temps so it contracts and deflates the tire some) But actually I can't say I've ever felt any difference with the other three air shocks I've owned compressing either firmer or bouncy'er :) the longer I rode or more bumps moving the shock harder? So I'm not sure how much of a difference such a small change in temp is making to the air pressure during a ride? But I'm hardley an expert! :)

One thing that cracks me up now is how much faith I was putting in the review of the DHX 5.0 air from the low rating it has on MTBR.com. But I failed to look closer and see that it so far only has 4 reviews! Hardley a significant enough number of reviews to give it much credence.
 

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stiingya said:
If air is expanding than wouldn't that actually firm up the shock? (I'm thinking that when the oposite happens and it get's cold out in the winter you always have to add air pressure to your car tires. The air's denser at colder temps so it contracts and deflates the tire some) But actually I can't say I've ever felt any difference with the other three air shocks I've owned compressing either firmer or bouncy'er :) the longer I rode or more bumps moving the shock harder? So I'm not sure how much of a difference such a small change in temp is making to the air pressure during a ride? But I'm hardley an expert! :)
That's a fair comment, and I think you're right. I think the my C9 problem was actually the air damping when jumping - the air heats up, gets less dense, so the damping isn't as effective and then you land harder on a "bigger" spring? That's my seat-of-the-pants take on it, but I'm no expert either.

stiingya said:
One thing that cracks me up now is how much faith I was putting in the review of the DHX 5.0 air from the low rating it has on MTBR.com. But I failed to look closer and see that it so far only has 4 reviews! Hardley a significant enough number of reviews to give it much credence.
Yeah, I don't think Turner et al would spec them if they were junk. There's a few posts in the forums about 'em - seems like most folks with problems were happy after they sent them away and got them back...
 

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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
coolatt said:
sweet!!! thank you, it's cool to have the option of the 3-way air besides the DHX. Cheaper too! :) Plus I've been using a 30way on my VT for nearly 2 years with great success.

Thanks again!!!
 

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Groveland Trail Heads
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Fox had

stiingya said:
sweet!!! thank you, it's cool to have the option of the 3-way air besides the DHX. Cheaper too! :) Plus I've been using a 30way on my VT for nearly 2 years with great success.

Thanks again!!!
a RP3 AVA listed about a year ago on their website. It listed the 7.875 x 2.25 as an option. I was ordering my heckler in December of last year and was looking at rear shock options. I am sorry but I do not remember the reason why I did not get it because I wanted it at the time. Contact Fox, they probably know more about this. The Blur LT comes with a RP3 that has a larger air chamber than the standard RP3, they do look different. I do not know if the Blur LT's RP3 has a 7.875 x 2.25 as an option. Again Fox would know more. I have a RP3 on my heckler but it is the standard 7.875 x 2.0. I hope that helps.... now you have me interested in this again... so I will contact Fox also.
 

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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Though I have to wait untill after X-mas to buy a new shock, which ever one I endup buying? ( whats up with all this buying OTHER people presents??? :) But I was looking at that link to Universal Cycles website. And besides the 7.875 x 2.25, there is also a 2.5 inch stroke version!!! :) Ho much travel to you think I would get with that one??? :) ( I would guess only about 6 inches? since going from a 2.0 to a 2.25 made the suspension travel go from 5" to 5.6" yes?) I guess this isn't actually a big deal to me since I went from a 150mm bomber to the 140mm Pike. Not making much sence to have more travel in the rear of the bike than in the front...?

Anyway, the other thing I wanted to ask about, is that there is a twin tube option for the swinger 3-way that is suppossed to give the shock a more linear travel action. Which they say is better for bikes with low leverage ratio's and rising rates. I know I could and probably should and will search to see if I can find this answer. BUT, ( since I'm lazy ) does anyone know the answer to this one right off the bat? What kind of leverage ratio and rising rate does the heckler suspension have? Thanks!
 

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noMAD man
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3-Way Air or 4-Way Air?

stiingya said:
Though I have to wait untill after X-mas to buy a new shock, which ever one I endup buying? ( whats up with all this buying OTHER people presents??? :) But I was looking at that link to Universal Cycles website. And besides the 7.875 x 2.25, there is also a 2.5 inch stroke version!!! :) Ho much travel to you think I would get with that one??? :) ( I would guess only about 6 inches? since going from a 2.0 to a 2.25 made the suspension travel go from 5" to 5.6" yes?) I guess this isn't actually a big deal to me since I went from a 150mm bomber to the 140mm Pike. Not making much sence to have more travel in the rear of the bike than in the front...?

Anyway, the other thing I wanted to ask about, is that there is a twin tube option for the swinger 3-way that is suppossed to give the shock a more linear travel action. Which they say is better for bikes with low leverage ratio's and rising rates. I know I could and probably should and will search to see if I can find this answer. BUT, ( since I'm lazy ) does anyone know the answer to this one right off the bat? What kind of leverage ratio and rising rate does the heckler suspension have? Thanks!
I know this thread started out talking about 4-Way Air shocks, but it's bounced around a bit. If we're talking 3 or 4 Way Air I'm just about positive that there is no 7.875 X 2.5 model. If they show one, I'd bet it's a typo. I also don't think there is a 7.875 X 2.25 4-Way Air or 3-Way Air model.

Your Heckler has a falling rate rear with a 2.5 ratio. I'll wager that if you found a 7.875 X 2.5 rear shock, you'd get tire contact at the seat tube/saddle area. I don't any shock like that exists.
 

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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
TNC said:
I know this thread started out talking about 4-Way Air shocks, but it's bounced around a bit. If we're talking 3 or 4 Way Air I'm just about positive that there is no 7.875 X 2.5 model. If they show one, I'd bet it's a typo. I also don't think there is a 7.875 X 2.25 4-Way Air or 3-Way Air model.

Your Heckler has a falling rate rear with a 2.5 ratio. I'll wager that if you found a 7.875 X 2.5 rear shock, you'd get tire contact at the seat tube/saddle area. I don't any shock like that exists.
If you read up a few threads there was a knowledgable person that found 3-ways in the 2.25" stroke. (I'm beting because the OEM shock for C'dale phrophets probably needed that size and stroke, but it's just a guess?) And since then I have found numerous listings for the shock in that size so I do think it's correct information. Though not in a 4-way, nor the new splice/slice? something like that? As far as I can tell it's the DHX or the 3-way for air shocks in that size.

The 2.5" stroke may totally be a mistake, and I guess probably is since there are so few 2.25 stroke air shocks???

Anyway, I just thought it was cool. I am all about a little experimentation now and then. I am running an 8" i to i romic on my Heckler. And I know a bunch of people told my how that wasn't going to work because of clearance issues! :)

Thanks for the information on the Heckler's falling rate.
 

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fraid of heights
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
UM.. so is a 2.5 leverage ratio low or high? :) And would the larger "air sleeve" make the 3-way more progressive or less? :)

Sorry, guess I'm not quite so knowlegeble when it comes to suspension...
 

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"El Whatever"
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stiingya said:
UM.. so is a 2.5 leverage ratio low or high? :) And would the larger "air sleeve" make the 3-way more progressive or less? :)

Sorry, guess I'm not quite so knowlegeble when it comes to suspension...
2:1 is a low leverage.
2.5:1 is normal leverage.
3:1 is way too much
 
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