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half tread will travel
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i found this in the 650b palace.com...this maybe old news for some but i'm impressed with all the tire options in this new size...i'm thinking the new 2.1 neo-moto may be just about perfect all around er for the mojo...what do you think.???

December 22, 2008
What would you say if...

What would you say if I offered you a 2.1" knobby 650B tire? What if you already had a matching tire on your 650b rig, but its was a little too big, or a little too heavy?
Would you ask for a lighter, narrower version of the Neo-Moto? Would a 2.1" version suffice? What if we scraped off 100g from the existing 2.3" Neo? Would you ride it? Would you love it? Would you love me? I hope not, you should love Pacenti Cycle Designs.

That's right, your prayers have been answered. A 2.1" version of the acclaimed Neo-Moto is in the works. MTBR's BEST, just got a little smaller! The Neo was the precedent for 650b knobbies, and won't go down without fight! Pacenti has pushed the production of the Mini-Moto, a 650b x 44 tire, back in favor of the narrower Neo. Quite the line up of tires is emerging!
Meanwhile, Kenda has yet to deliver their 2.3 and 2.1 Nevegal in the 650b format.
Cross you fingers for a Pre-Sea Otter release of the 2.1 Neo!!!
Pictured is the 2.3" Version

So, now, planned/scheduled 650b Knobby tires are as followed:
Pacenti Neo Moto 2.3"
Pacenti Neo Moto 2.1"
Pacenti Quasi Moto 2.0"
Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.2"
IRD/Pana Fire XC Pro 2.1"
Kenda Nevegal 2.3"
Kenda Nevegal 2.1"
WTB Wolverine 2.2"

I think there are enough tire companies onboard to suggest this as a viable wheel size!
Forks? Hello? ...Bueller?
 

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The MTB Lab
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2,559 Posts
Not sure if 8 tires make it viable as yet. Only one fork manufacturer makes a 650b specific fork.

FYI: although no one so far has had an issue, fork companies state adamantly not to use a larger wheel on their 26er forks. Per one of my friends "According to fork manufacturers, they are still recouping the engineering and production costs from the 29er lines."

Per Fox:

Fox Racing Shox Issues Warning

To all FOX Racing Shox Users and Customers,

It has come to the attention of FOX Racing Shox that certain individuals and / or entities are modifying FOX forks to accommodate mountain bike wheel sizes other than those having 26 inch nominal diameter. One such modification includes removing material from the lower leg cross bridge in order to fit a 29" or 650B tire in the fork.

Such modification will ultimately separate the lower fork legs at the cross bridge (i.e. the weakened cross bridge will fracture) and may cause bicycle instability and crash that result in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.

DO NOT MODIFY OR MISAPPLY FOX FORKS
NEVER REMOVE MATERIAL from any portion of a FOX fork. USE ONLY 26 INCH WHEELS with FOX 32*, 36 and 40 bicycle suspension forks. Those FOX forks are designed and tested for use ONLY with 26 inch Mountain Bike wheels / tires.

Use of FOX forks with any wheel other than 26 inches and/or alteration or modification of any FOX fork will subject the FOX fork to loads and forces it has not been designed or certified to meet and will void all warranties. The FOX 32*, 36 and 40 models meet CEN and ASTM testing standards ONLY when used with 26 inch wheels / tires and are not recommended or approved by FOX Factory, Inc. for use with wheels larger or smaller than 26 inches, either as original equipment or aftermarket.

DO NOT RIDE ON MODIFIED OR MISAPPLIED FOX FORKS
Proper forks are critical to proper bicycle handling and stability. Improper function or failure of a bicycle fork while riding can cause a bicycle to become uncontrollable and result in a crash. Use of FOX 32*, 36 or 40 forks with wheels larger or smaller than 26 inches, or any other modification, may cause crashes that result in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH. Never ride a bicycle that is, or appears to be, fitted with a FOX 32*, 36 or 40 fork that has been modified and / or fitted with any wheel larger or smaller in nominal diameter than 26 inches.

* DO USE THE RIGHT FORK FOR THE JOB
For those of you who want to ride on 29 inch front wheels with suspension, FOX offers the 32 F29 fork designed specifically for 29 inch wheels. The F29 is available in 80mm, 100mm or 120mm travel configurations and is ideal for tall wheel applications. The F29 is the only FOX fork available for use with 29 inch wheels and is clearly labeled "F29" on the right leg. The F29 should be used only with 29 inch wheels. As with all FOX forks, do not modify or misapply, or ride on improperly applied or modified FOX F29 forks.

DO CONTACT FOX
Do not modify any portion of a FOX fork and do not purchase or use any fork that appears to have been modified. Any FOX 32*, 36 or 40 model fork that appears to accommodate a tire larger than 26 inches in nominal diameter, such as 650b or 29 inch, should be avoided. If any doubt exists as to the originality or proper application of a FOX fork please contact a FOX representative.
 

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half tread will travel
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240 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Not sure if 8 tires make it viable as yet. Only one fork manufacturer makes a 650b specific fork.

FYI: although no one so far has had an issue, fork companies state adamantly not to use a larger wheel on their 26er forks. Per one of my friends "According to fork manufacturers, they are still recouping the engineering and production costs from the 29er lines."


hey pj, the less than 2.3 size will make fitting the forks quite easily along with more frames like the mojo...only in a matter of fact or public record...how would a fork manufacturer know what caused a failure on their product...furthermore these tire sizes are within the same parameters of some larger 26 inch tires anyways...so i'm not sure why the strong stand that fox has chosen...i have tracked the 650b process for a year and a half and not found issues with fork failure...just more of a fit problems with the larger Pacenti 2.3 neo-motos with forks and frames...it's sorta like running 2.6/2.7 26 inch tires without most of the additional weight...
 

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The MTB Lab
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Tread Mark said:
hey pj, the less than 2.3 size will make fitting the forks quite easily along with more frames like the mojo...only in a matter of fact or public record...how would a fork manufacturer know what caused a failure on their product...furthermore these tire sizes are within the same parameters of some larger 26 inch tires anyways...so i'm not sure why the strong stand that fox has chosen...i have tracked the 650b process for a year and a half and not found issues with fork failure...just more of a fit problems with the larger Pacenti 2.3 neo-motos with forks and frames...it's sorta like running 2.6/2.7 26 inch tires without most of the additional weight...
The leverage that the tire gives back into the fork has to do with the wheel size, the 27.5er have .75 inches of extra torque onto the system, tires are pretty pliable, so they contribute but aren't the main source. Fork is highly engineered pieces of equipment, and they are over engineered so 27.5 wheels will work, but the 26er forks were never made for them. Fork companies make the legs a bit tougher and thicker on forks as they move up in wheel size. My 29er 100mm is a big dog in comparison to the same travel in a 26er, yes the extra height does add weight, but they are simply a bit beefier for the 29er wheels.

I will speak with White Bros this week (got an inside track) about the subject, they are the only company to make a 27.5 fork. I will also touch base with DT Swiss and Manitou.

It is a case of the fork manufacturer covering their butts. I never made any statement about failures. The statement from Fox is marketing hyperbole that has been passed through their legal department. Fox spends an insane amount of my money doing incredibly detailed analysis when they make a fork. They have certain criteria within which a fork stay's within it's design parameters. I am sure they have tested with a slew of different size tires, and I bet they have even put a 27.5 on one and it did not fall within range (an assumption). The latest Fox statement seems triggered by people making internal changes to their forks.

I was at Interbike and 26 and 29 (lesser) are still the gold standards. Tire companies are really under the gun to only create profitable tire sizes. Most of them can barely get a 29er tire to pass muster to the tire management. It is a tough business climate out there.

Update to follow...good discussion regardless!

Peace.
 

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half tread will travel
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
hey pj, thanks for your input...it's always good to know what corporate is up to...i personally have a rs pike fork...it has proven track history in its capabilities to handle 27.5 additional leverage stresses...as mountain bikers we all have to deal with the bucking and stalling as we bump our way down a technical trail...i tend to use large volume tires to minimize the effects at the penalty of added weight...i can see by your recently posted videos that a 29 inch wheel bike has a advantage in those wide open spaces...a perfect place for 29 inch wheels...out here in new england it can be a lot tighter situation where that little bit extra of a 650b wheel size is just right when coupled with 69 degree head angle to help with keeping up your momentum in switched backed technical trails...where the advantages of the bigger 29 over the same trail maybe not clearly recognized because of longer wheel base and general steering differences such as wheel flop in a tight switched back trail...i am generalizing so you are welcome to show the exceptions...but in general for my self going forward i am willing to embrace the 650b/27.5 wheel size as a advantage over 26 or 29 wheel size...and see even many more practical applications with the arrival of the neo-moto 2.1 tires...it just might help break the ice and become the gold standard in size, weight and performance in all mountain applications...i guess we will see...
 
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