575 carbon fiber pivot question???
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The design of the swing link or dog-bone requires that there be a pivot or flex point somewhere. The swing link controls angle between the shock and the seat stay and allows Yeti to tune the bike to the type of shock used.mtbbiker said:
As we have talked about before on this forum, it's not the basic design type that matters most. It's the implementation that counts. Yeti has done a superb job with the 575 of making a long travel bike that is light, climbs well and handles well. From all reports this was largely a process of building and testing several bikes to get the design right.
If you are skeptical you owe it to yourself to get a test ride.
David
Yeti's use a non-Horst link strut design. The following is a description shamelessly ripped from the Titus website:
Frames that incorporate both the strut design and a properly placed Horst Link are among the simplest fully active designs on the market. These designs experience no Bio-Pace or DISC and tend to be some of the lightest full suspension frames available. Strut designs achieve their light weight by using the shock as an integral frame member. The light weight and limited travel characteristics make strut designs ideal designs for cross-country racing. Strut designs that do not use a Horst Link, but place their pivot above the rear dropout, exhibit many of the same positive features as the Horst Link bikes. However, depending on the front pivot location, non- Horst Link designs will exhibit some Bio-Pace or DISC.
Frames that incorporate both the strut design and a properly placed Horst Link are among the simplest fully active designs on the market. These designs experience no Bio-Pace or DISC and tend to be some of the lightest full suspension frames available. Strut designs achieve their light weight by using the shock as an integral frame member. The light weight and limited travel characteristics make strut designs ideal designs for cross-country racing. Strut designs that do not use a Horst Link, but place their pivot above the rear dropout, exhibit many of the same positive features as the Horst Link bikes. However, depending on the front pivot location, non- Horst Link designs will exhibit some Bio-Pace or DISC.
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Trying not to sound like TOO much of a doubting Thomas here, but I am not surprised to see that come from Titus' website. They do employ the Horst link on almost all of thier bikes.
A bad Horst link designed bike is still not a very good bike. Thoughtful design, quality of materials and quality of build are ALL equally important.
A bad Horst link designed bike is still not a very good bike. Thoughtful design, quality of materials and quality of build are ALL equally important.
I think the Titus suspension primer is a pretty honest, maybe slightly biased, reference. If you read the whole thing, they note that the devil is in the execution. Titus does make several different kinds of suspension. The Racer X is a non-Horst link very similar to Yeti and the Loco-Moto is a single pivot.
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a bit of flex from the pivot
You'll notice that the old ASR and Koko use a bushing, and a host of other monos have a sealed bearing in the rear.
Yeti has moved to the flex pivot because a bushing or sealed bearing is both over and under-doing it in their book. There is a very very limited amount of flex that needs to happen above the rear dropout. In addition, putting a bearing or bushing decreases the lateral rigidity of the rear triangle (a common cause of tracking/handling problems among the four-bar clan).
A sealed bearing typically is the smoother of the two, but the bushing takes side loads better. A flex pivot is the best of both worlds because it doesn't have friction between two opposing surfaces. It is also laterally stiff because the pivot is reinforced laterally, so iThe t is only made to flex in one direction.
Did I mention the flex pivot is also lighter?
The main disadvantage of the flexpivot is that they must be meticulously engineered and are more expensive to manufacture than a typical bushing or sealed bearing.
Everyone makes comprimises to be competitive in today's bike world. Yeti chooses to not comprimise in this spot. Like we've been hearing so much on this forum lately: "The devil is in the details." It's true. Give it a ride!
Most modified singlepivots require a flex point. Most leave it out and completely rely on the the seatstay to bend themselves. A good example of this is the Fisher Sugar. This mono design is also called semi-pivotless (for all you old school suspension gurus out there). By not putting in a bushing, bearing, or pivot in there, you are pretty much guaranteed a rear triangle failure at some point in time.drjos said:
You'll notice that the old ASR and Koko use a bushing, and a host of other monos have a sealed bearing in the rear.
Yeti has moved to the flex pivot because a bushing or sealed bearing is both over and under-doing it in their book. There is a very very limited amount of flex that needs to happen above the rear dropout. In addition, putting a bearing or bushing decreases the lateral rigidity of the rear triangle (a common cause of tracking/handling problems among the four-bar clan).
A sealed bearing typically is the smoother of the two, but the bushing takes side loads better. A flex pivot is the best of both worlds because it doesn't have friction between two opposing surfaces. It is also laterally stiff because the pivot is reinforced laterally, so iThe t is only made to flex in one direction.
Did I mention the flex pivot is also lighter?
The main disadvantage of the flexpivot is that they must be meticulously engineered and are more expensive to manufacture than a typical bushing or sealed bearing.
Everyone makes comprimises to be competitive in today's bike world. Yeti chooses to not comprimise in this spot. Like we've been hearing so much on this forum lately: "The devil is in the details." It's true. Give it a ride!
Some do - some don't... Depends on what drives the shock (eg chainstay: think San Andreas - no pivot nec. "Seatstay": Kona, Yeti - you need a pivot or at least an element of flex as in most cases you need to correct the arc an un-broken stay would swing through. Some don't - think early amp.mtbbiker said:
idiot
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