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Discussion Starter #1
Spent mucho time spec'ing this build. Wanted to run it through the Turner forum before giving the go-ahead to build it this weekend. Looking most for component quality issues... want to hear anything you have to say about the build. This build is not set in stone. Matter of fact, it's went through a major overhaul the past few days. The biggest change was switching from the Shimano XT Crankset to the RF Atlas Crankset. Other changes may be forthcoming....

Info! I need info!

* Main purpose: Fast and aggressive trails
* Trail terrain: Almost everything. 1-2 foot drops
*5'10"/225lbs.

* Frame Size:Large
* Frame Color (PC/Ano):Black
* Shock:Romic/650#spring
* Fork:Fox Vanilla RLC 130mm
* Brakes:Avid Juicy 7
* Cranks:RF Atlas AM Crankset 175 mm
* Shifters:SRAM X.9 ESP 9 spd triggershifers
* Front Derailleur:Shimano XT M761 Frt Der 28.6-34.9
* Rear Derailleur:SRAM XO ESP Rear Der Medium Cage
* Chain:SRAM Power Chains 9 Speed PC-99
* Pedals:Crank Bros. Mallet C
* Stem:Thomson Elite 100 mm 15 Rise
* Handlebar:EC 70 Monkey Lite 660 mm 1 1/4"
* Seatpost:Thomson Elite 330 mm length 27.2 mm
* Saddle:WTB Laser V Stealth
* Cassette:Shimano XT M760 9-Speed 11-32
* Headset:CKThreadless Headset 1-1/8
* Front Tire:Continental Vertical UST 2.3
* Front Rim:Mavic EX 823 36 Hole
* Front Hub/Skewer:CK ISO Disc Hub 36 Hole/Salsa
* Rear Tire:Continental Vertical UST 2.3
* Rear Rim:Mavic EX 823 36 Hole
* Rear Hub/Skewer:CK ISO Disc Hub 36 Hole/Salsa
* Seatpost Collar:Salsa Flip-Lock 32 mm

What do you have to say?
 

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looks nice

bikin said:
Spent mucho time spec'ing this build. Wanted to run it through the Turner forum before giving the go-ahead to build it this weekend. Looking most for component quality issues... want to hear anything you have to say about the build. This build is not set in stone. Matter of fact, it's went through a major overhaul the past few days. The biggest change was switching from the Shimano XT Crankset to the RF Atlas Crankset. Other changes may be forthcoming....

Info! I need info!

* Main purpose: Fast and aggressive trails
* Trail terrain: Almost everything. 1-2 foot drops
*5'10"/225lbs.

* Frame Size:Large
* Frame Color (PC/Ano):Black
* Shock:Romic/650#spring
* Fork:Fox Vanilla RLC 130mm
* Brakes:Avid Juicy 7
* Cranks:RF Atlas AM Crankset 175 mm
* Shifters:SRAM X.9 ESP 9 spd triggershifers
* Front Derailleur:Shimano XT M761 Frt Der 28.6-34.9
* Rear Derailleur:SRAM XO ESP Rear Der Medium Cage
* Chain:SRAM Power Chains 9 Speed PC-99
* Pedals:Crank Bros. Mallet C
* Stem:Thomson Elite 100 mm 15 Rise
* Handlebar:EC 70 Monkey Lite 660 mm 1 1/4"
* Seatpost:Thomson Elite 330 mm length 27.2 mm
* Saddle:WTB Laser V Stealth
* Cassette:Shimano XT M760 9-Speed 11-32
* Headset:CKThreadless Headset 1-1/8
* Front Tire:Continental Vertical UST 2.3
* Front Rim:Mavic EX 823 36 Hole
* Front Hub/Skewer:CK ISO Disc Hub 36 Hole/Salsa
* Rear Tire:Continental Vertical UST 2.3
* Rear Rim:Mavic EX 823 36 Hole
* Rear Hub/Skewer:CK ISO Disc Hub 36 Hole/Salsa
* Seatpost Collar:Salsa Flip-Lock 32 mm

What do you have to say?

looks like a sweet build to me.........personally, i would go for lighter pedals maybe candies if you are only looking at 1-2 ft drops, but i understand if you want a big 'ol platform...........that is going to be one awesome machine, i bet you can't wait to get her dirty!
 

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First, I would give the new RF cranks a year to mature before jumping in. Some people here have reported "issues" with them (funny bearing preload elasomer system, excessive drag, etc). Stick with the XT (or 03 XT) for now.

Also, why such anemic little tires on such heavy and wide rims? Contis are the tiniest 2.3s going. Tell us what type of riding conditions you are going to experience and what you want out of a tire, and we will recommend some real meat.
 

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tscheezy said:
First, I would give the new RF cranks a year to mature before jumping in. Some people here have reported "issues" with them (funny bearing preload elasomer system, excessive drag, etc). Stick with the XT (or 03 XT) for now.
It was me reporting "issues" with the RF cranks.
They were "just" concerning the X-Type BB system. I had replies to my post from people who had no problems with their BB and some tweaking on mine has improved the drag in the bearings. (but I had to leave out one rubber washer that according to RF is to remain in the system).


As tscheezy said: I'd give the system some time to improve or at least go for the Atlas cranks with the conventional ISIS BB.
 

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Run screaming away from Isis. If it were between that system and the Shimano, then big bad brother all the way.
 

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A few things that I question, one being if you are going to use a triple front chainring set up you probably should use the longer cage rear der. Second is the heavy wheels, I see that your 225lbs, but I still think that a 36h 823 is over kill. If you want to keep the heavy rim just use 32 hole hoops with solid spokes. That still will be a strong wheel and if you are only doing 1-2 footers they should hold up fine. a 36 hole 823 is a heavy DH set up even with the CK's, you might find that XM819's will be fine. Other than the wheels everything looks like the making of a great trailbike.
 

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tscheezy said:
Run screaming away from Isis. If it were between that system and the Shimano, then big bad brother all the way.
What's the thing with ISIS?

I might change my cranks sometimes soon and I don't want to switch from one (probably) bad system to another.

Can you fill me in on that?
 

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Nice Build, but is that the right spring on the Romic

Seems that the 650# is a little lite for your size. You'll get lot's of sag. I had a 700# on my XCE and that was too little for me at 220 lbs. Check with Romic before you commit. Also, while I have RF Next, I dont think you can go wrong with the XT cranks. Everyone I know who has had chainsuck problems resolved them when going to XTs. Strong and fairly light.

Overall, you have a great solid trailbike build--my only comment would be make sure you will be comfortable with the idea of having a 33+ lb bike. I built my XCE very similar to yours but after two years I $wapped out various items to bring the weight down to 27 lbs. which makes it a little more manageable on the hill climbs. Otherwise, your build looks sweet.

bikin said:
Spent mucho time spec'ing this build. Wanted to run it through the Turner forum before giving the go-ahead to build it this weekend. Looking most for component quality issues... want to hear anything you have to say about the build. This build is not set in stone. Matter of fact, it's went through a major overhaul the past few days. The biggest change was switching from the Shimano XT Crankset to the RF Atlas Crankset. Other changes may be forthcoming....

Info! I need info!

* Main purpose: Fast and aggressive trails
* Trail terrain: Almost everything. 1-2 foot drops
*5'10"/225lbs.

* Frame Size:Large
* Frame Color (PC/Ano):Black
* Shock:Romic/650#spring
* Fork:Fox Vanilla RLC 130mm
* Brakes:Avid Juicy 7
* Cranks:RF Atlas AM Crankset 175 mm
* Shifters:SRAM X.9 ESP 9 spd triggershifers
* Front Derailleur:Shimano XT M761 Frt Der 28.6-34.9
* Rear Derailleur:SRAM XO ESP Rear Der Medium Cage
* Chain:SRAM Power Chains 9 Speed PC-99
* Pedals:Crank Bros. Mallet C
* Stem:Thomson Elite 100 mm 15 Rise
* Handlebar:EC 70 Monkey Lite 660 mm 1 1/4"
* Seatpost:Thomson Elite 330 mm length 27.2 mm
* Saddle:WTB Laser V Stealth
* Cassette:Shimano XT M760 9-Speed 11-32
* Headset:CKThreadless Headset 1-1/8
* Front Tire:Continental Vertical UST 2.3
* Front Rim:Mavic EX 823 36 Hole
* Front Hub/Skewer:CK ISO Disc Hub 36 Hole/Salsa
* Rear Tire:Continental Vertical UST 2.3
* Rear Rim:Mavic EX 823 36 Hole
* Rear Hub/Skewer:CK ISO Disc Hub 36 Hole/Salsa
* Seatpost Collar:Salsa Flip-Lock 32 mm

What do you have to say?
 

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EasyRider said:
Seems that the 650# is a little lite for your size. You'll get lot's of sag. I had a 700# on my XCE and that was too little for me at 220 lbs. Check with Romic before you commit. Also, while I have RF Next, I dont think you can go wrong with the XT cranks. Everyone I know who has had chainsuck problems resolved them when going to XTs. Strong and fairly light.

Overall, you have a great solid trailbike build--my only comment would be make sure you will be comfortable with the idea of having a 33+ lb bike. I built my XCE very similar to yours but after two years I $wapped out various items to bring the weight down to 27 lbs. which makes it a little more manageable on the hill climbs. Otherwise, your build looks sweet.
The 5 Spot has a different spring requirement than the XCE. I'm ~220 and run the 600 at proper sag with about 2 turns on the preload. 650 should be a little stiff but it'll give you plenty of leeway for very agressive riding.

About the setup above, I have many of the same parts. The $RAM stuff is nice. You'll like them. The Thom$on stuff is a given, but some people have had problems with creaking/loosening stems...

I just ordered a set of wheels like the above from Larry (Ventanarama) @ MHC, After the Mav!c Xmax-XL debacle I had, I decided to take no chances (or prisoners) and build stiff and strong. I have the rear wheel. The front will be 32h though. No doubt, about the weight! The rear wheel is about 1/2-lb heavier than the XMXL wheel it's replacing, (0n my Rapala digital fish scale:rolleyes: ) The front wheel should be here today!

Tscheezy, I'm still confused about what tire to choose to replace my VP-USTs I really want to stay with UST. I'm satisfied with how the tire grips but as said by many (including me) it rips way too easy. I think Crash-D posted some of his tire thoughts but I think those were std tires. The Avids, Tscheezy and others can tell you all about.(raves)

I have the Mallet-C's (switched from eggbeaters): You might want to consider the Candys, unless you really need the big, heavy platforms. Note the CB pedals go through cleats like a fat kid goes through potato chips. Have extras. Be mindful that when you do replace them, you'll need to readjust to the increase in release tension. When the cleats wear they release easy and I get used to that. Then the new cleats are harder to get out of and sometimes I get stuck in them for the first techniocal Ride. Also the "armor" grip plates bend very easily and I often find them with wedges of wood stuck between them.

keep your seat low and stay off it on the rough stuff or you'll be bending the W_T_B seat rails. I'm on my third and each of the last two bent after just a few weeks.
I've had good experiences with the $alsa clamps and skewers, but I'll be switching to Hopes to get a color $alsa dosen't offer.

I've tried the XT and XTR HT-II cranks and both are excellent. I switched to the XT because it'll take a short bash ring where the XTR spider reaches out to the base of the big ring. I'd say if you are looking for a sure thing, the XT is a safe bet. Later on, you might want to consider a bash ring. If your trails are really technical you may never use the big ring. I never used mine.

Thus ends my essay...

Enjoy!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
With this rig, I want to improve my riding in every respect. 1-2 footers now... 3-4 footer soon after I have the bike. I ride a used 02 Giant AC light. Though, very dependable, it feels like it's going to explode when I stick a landing. I actually, like to drive/pound my bike into the ground during a landing. This was my reasoning for the ex823 36 hole. This bike needs to last a good few years. I like to go fast on the downhills... well... fast for me. Need the bike to take a beating when finesse abandons me for long stretches. Hence, the over-build on the Spot.

I ride typical low area Southern CA terrain. Dusty, dry, loose surfaced hard pack with patches of sandy/gravel. Conti's have done me well on my AC. Thought I'd use them again. What would you recommend for the terrain? Something beefy.

-Point well taken on the RF Atlas. I was iffy at best on the choice. Got caught up in the hype. Will switch back to XT and long cage rear der.

-I like the platforms on the Mallets. That way I can just jump on it and take it for a cruise if need be. More of a practical thing than anything else. Don't mind the weight of the plats.

-Casey at Turner actually recommended the 650# for the Romic. I'll do a double check and ask again. I see there is conflicting statements on spring rates.

-Tire size? If you can recommend something beefier... the better.

I think I'll wait another day or so before pulling the trigger on the build. Lots of information still to gather here.... thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Bikezilla, what type of spokes are you running on your new wheels?
I've got DT Swiss Competition 14/15 dble-butted listed for build.

After reading these posts, I'm thinking 36 hole is indeed overkill. Want something bomb-proof, and ain't losing weight anytime soon.
 

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bikin said:
Bikezilla, what type of spokes are you running on your new wheels?
I've got DT Swiss Competition 14/15 dble-butted listed for build.

After reading these posts, I'm thinking 36 hole is indeed overkill. Want something bomb-proof, and ain't losing weight anytime soon.
I'm ordered the very same spokes. The taper is so subtle I thought they were straight guage at first. They feel a lot tougher than the $5 XMXL pretzle sticks I had. Going 36h in the rear: I don't think the 4 spokes will add that much weight considering that rim weighs a half ton. It feels like someone bent a construction I-beam into a loop. I'll be going 32h in the front though.

I totally understand your riding mindset. We may think alike.:rolleyes: When I first got my bike I really wanted to feel the ground after launching a kicker or short drop. Long term, probably a bad thing. The bike inspires confidence, and it really isolates the hits. Ride it, love it, but for me, I'm striving for smooth, and will not be slamming the landings. It isn't really necessary and will save much needed energy to hop over the next log on the top of that climb.

One other thing my big brotha, If you really are into riding hard, you might want to consider a Z1 fork. Man, I really love mine. The damping seems limitless, and it handles the small hits as well as the big ones, and feels the same regardless... Pssst, a 20mm thru will make you feel like you can ride with your eyes closed. More weight? yeah but not much relative to what you're planning considering your spec & style. Someone else here described it quite well: Z1+20mm = Help there's a bike on my fork!

Food for thought anyway, G'luck!
 

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Flyin Canine
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Spokes and Rims:
I am 200lbs and am running the dt comps 14/15 on my freeride/DH/urban bike for the last three years. If they are built right they will last. I just broke my first spoke on my rear wheel a month ago. This is with king hubs and mavice F519 rim, 32 hole. I like the mavic XM series stuff too.

Cranks
Since you don't mind adding a little weight you could reconsider ISIS if you go with the Truvativ GigaPipe Team DH BB. It is the only ISIS BB that seems to last more that 6 months for most of the guys riding really hard or in nasty conditions. I don't like shimano's tactics so I personally would not buy their new cranks with integrated BB. That's me being stubborn though and the new XT stuff has gotten good reviews so it would probably be a fine choice for you.
 

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For the UST tires I would suggest either the Geax Sturdy (huge for a 2.25 and tough) or perhaps the Nokian NBX 2.3 tubeless. The conti's are small for a supposed 2.3 and I find the sidewalls to be to thin for rocky conditions.
Any other suggestions? There really needs to be more big tubeless tires available.
The sturdy's work great for Arizona conditions, sandy, rocky and often dusty in Northen Arizona.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
-Was looking at the Z1's but many to choose from. 'Zilla, which do you recommend?
Went with the Vanilla's as it's my only experience with forks. They've done me well. Thought I would stick with'em. How are the Z1's on the climbs?

-Still up in there on going 36 holes. Seems the pro's factor out the con's either way.
Leaning 32....again.

-Shanedawg, sticking with the XT crankset. Seems a sure thing.

-'Wombat, will be looking into the Nokian NBX's. Thanks. Like the thicker sidewall thing.

What I should have done is stick withe my orginal build list... 32 hole....XT crankset.
First inclinations were definitely the right choices.
 

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Bikezilla said:
Tscheezy, I'm still confused about what tire to choose to replace my VP-USTs I really want to stay with UST. I'm satisfied with how the tire grips but as said by many (including me) it rips way too easy. I think Crash-D posted some of his tire thoughts but I think those were std tires.
'Zilla, several local riders run standard tires with Stans on UST rims with great success. I never tried this, but I think it'd be worth a shot with the Kenda BG & NV. These tires frickin' rock. Check out my full review I just posted in this thread.


Bikezilla said:
I've had good experiences with the $alsa clamps and skewers, but I'll be switching to Hopes to get a color $alsa dosen't offer.
Let me guess... GOLD?!? :D
 

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Flying Wombat said:
For the UST tires I would suggest either the Geax Sturdy (huge for a 2.25 and tough) or perhaps the Nokian NBX 2.3 tubeless.
I'd second the praise of the Sturdy, but personally I'd stay away from the NBX's. I ran the standard 2.3's, which aren't any wider than Conti's 2.3 offerings, and had problems with knobs tearing off and seperating with the casing, particularly on the edge. Even without that the tread pattern wasn't anything to write home about.


Flying Wombat said:
Any other suggestions? There really needs to be more big tubeless tires available.
I'll get Bonkey, my LBS owner and avid Yeti fan, to hop on and chime in on the whole standard tire/Stans/UST set up which should give you guys wanting to run UST near endless options.
 

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Isis blows because to fit the bearings between the bb cups and the massive spindle, they had to make the bearings microscopic. Any dirt or water in there dissolves the bearings like rice paper. They generally don't last (I have one cheap Isis bb going on 3 years, but I chew through RF Sig XS bbs like they are candy). Chris King initially helped develop the system as an open source answer to Shimano's Octalink, but after they realized they rushed a flawed design to market, they never produced a bb of their own. If King does not want to touch it, neither do I.

Ahhh, tires. First off, 2.3 is hardly ever 2.3. Manufacturer's stated specs are rarely accurate. Conti runs tiny. Hutchison runs big. Go to Shiggy's Tire Site to compare actual measurements. My picks for mud, wet, rocky are Nokian Core 2.3 (a little small for a 2.3 in the casing, but big knobs, reasonable weight, great traction), Tioga Factory DH 2.3 F&R (heavy, tough, stiff rubber, durable, true 2.3), WTB Timberwolf 2.5 (huge, kinda heavy, decent rubber). For dry conditions and all around the Schwalbe King Jim light 2.3 is nice (light, small for a 2.3, small knobs may wear fast, grippy and good all around), and a Geax Sturdy 2.25 in back (HUGELY tall for a 2.25, very durable, lame in mud but otherwise good traction), and a WTB Weirwolf 2.5 in front (more like a 2.4, good durabilty, great front end traction for hardpack to loose gravel, useless in mud). You can adapt any of these tires to UST using Stan's Spooge with varying levels of success.
 

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Agreed

Tscheezy is right about Hutchinson's running big, and Conti's running small. I have the 2.3" Spider's running on 823 (32 hole), rims, and CK ISO hubs, and they almost look like a DH setup. That combo has worked great for me though, taking 4-6' drops without much trouble. I know some people have had at least an issue or two with the 823's, but I'm at 225-230 depending upon my morning bm, and they have held up fine to my abuse, 32 holes and all.

If you do want to lighten up a bit, you can try the 819's. I have a new set of 819's AND 14 ga DT spokes (black), that are the proper length for CK hubs, front and rear, if you or anybody else is interested. Got those hoops before I went with the 823's, still sitting around the shop somewhere.

The Hutchinson Spider UST has held up pretty well, all things considering, and the fact that it takes 4-6 footers all on what, 750g's, or less? They currently are sitting on the bike I've attached a pic of, for size review.
 

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CrashTheDOG said:
(waiting on some parts...) Let me guess... GOLD?!? :D
bling-BLING baby!!

My front wheel just arrived! 10 minuets after I finished putting my bike together and taking pix. I'll post some shots of the wheels later, gotta run and do the daddy thing...oh the timing! hehehe.


Bikin: Go for the Z1 FR. SL if you want to keep the weight down, QR20 if you're a manly man like myself!:D Both are outstanding. I'll try to post my final build weight later tonight. Right now with the CK mav-36 rear wheel and the XMXL front wheel, the bike is exactly 33.0 lbs...if you can trust a digital fish scale.

Later!
 
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