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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Am I crazy to start thinking I should sell my Spot and buy a Supergo Burner Frame?

Anybody else feel like the Spot is too much bike for general XC use? Yeah I like to jump off stuff, but nothing to big...mostly just your standard knee high type jump/drop.

Seems like I'm pedaling alot of extra weight uphill and not really reaping the full rewards...my everyday trails are pretty smooth and uneventful.

I just recently bought a fully rigid singlespeed and realized that it is almost as nice to ride as the 5 Spot! Well...in a different sort of way....it is a rough ride, but it is so light and snappy that it makes flat trails and uphil so much more exiting. I defiately want to keep a FS bike, but I'm thinking maybe I just went overboard with the 5 Spot and should have went with the cheaper and lighter Burner.

Am I nuts to start second guessing this? Anybody else think the Burner is the better bike for your average XC rider?

Thanks
 

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Lambone said:
Am I crazy to start thinking I should sell my Spot and buy a Supergo Burner Frame?

Anybody else feel like the Spot is too much bike for general XC use? Yeah I like to jump off stuff, but nothing to big...mostly just your standard knee high type jump/drop.

Seems like I'm pedaling alot of extra weight uphill and not really reaping the full rewards...my everyday trails are pretty smooth and uneventful.
...
Pretty logical thinking. The Burner's a fantastic bike that, like the Spot feels like it has far more travel than it does. It'll give you more of a snappier feeling for sure but before you go there, try to ride one for a bit to make sure you are getting what you want. If you need a really responsive go-go-go feeling and you don't mind the substantial increase in price the '05 offerings will be worth considering. But the Burner is a superb bike and at an unbeatable deal.

Steve... how about showing a little compassion dude? You'll have the means in spades after you grow- uh, I mean graduate and put that mondo micro-bio degree to use.:D

Cheers, gears and beers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
steve3 said:
What made you buy your Spot in the first place? Wanted a cool full susser that people could see you riding?

I wish I could afford to be uneducated consumer.
Don't be an a$$hole steve.

As I remember you went through the same buying process I did, looking at this web site, asking for opinions, and taking peoples word for it....(I can find the threads if you want), your happy with your purchase, good for you. you got a pretty pricey bike there yourself, not like your riding some $350 frame.

I considered mself to be about as educated as possible without riding the bike...which was nearly imposible as the closest dealer is a 5 hour drive.

I'm not saying I am not happy with the Spot...I'm saying it's heavier then I expected. And it's slower to pedal then my old FS bike, and I'm not sure that 5 inches pays off.
 

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I generally ride trails that do not even come close to fully utilizing my 5-Spot's capabilities, but I still have way more fun than I did on my Superlight. Plus, on the occassions that I do find "my edge", find myself on more aggressive trails, or just can't be stopped by my ego (usually chicks are around), I am very glad to be on my rig. There are just not many trails that I don't have fun on, even fire roads. Keep the 5-Spot.
 

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You could always use the SS on the easier trails, then save the spot for drives to the uglier stuff, or the annual trip to Moab.
The Burner would definately be snappier, but it sounds like you have the SS for that stuff. You would hate to someday get into technical riding or travel someplace and miss that 5-spot. I do sometimes miss the scoot of my Racer-X on some trails. I think that is why I am considering a single speed. Especially since I saw that they are bringing Voodoo back from the dead (bad joke) :D
Voodoo hardtail, 5-spot, Highline, Road Bike, fixed gear commuter. My life will be complete!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Flying Wombat said:
You could always use the SS on the easier trails, then save the spot for drives to the uglier stuff, or the annual trip to Moab.
yeah, problem is my closest trails involve a big climb, which kicks my ass on both the Spot and the singlespeed. So I guess I either need to get stronger or find the right bike...
 

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Lambone said:
yeah, problem is my closest trails involve a big climb, which kicks my ass on both the Spot and the singlespeed. So I guess I either need to get stronger or find the right bike...
Getting stronger is absolutely key. Most of my favorite riding usually involves a good 30 minuets of hard steep techinical climbing before getting to the real fun...of course the technical climbing can be quite fun in itself, especially once the fitness kicks in and I get to the point I don't have to stop for anything.

But if your trails are flat and/or smooth, the Spot can very well be more than you may want. It's a real trail monster for sure, but it needs a challenge to keep it fun, IMO.

As for the '05 lineup there's the Nitrous- a extremely light and responsive race-bike. do a search here and you'll see Turner's introduction and pictures. Then there's the bike that'll fill the gap the Burner left. It's expected to be lighter and more responsive. The Burner is very much like the XCE which is that it is stout and nimble trailbike. It can do XC duty quite well, and still hang tough on the rought stuff. But if pure XC is where you're livin' keep one eye on the Burner and a lookout for what's expected late this fall (or later?)

Like the others said keep the Spot if you think you'll be riding rough technical stuff (at least 1/4 of the time, maybe?).

Happy shopping!
 

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For a few bucks you can get an air shock and a different fork like a Talas, lowering the front to 100mm and uping the pressure in a rear shock you should get a snappier ride. Some lighter wheels perhaps, and other parts will get the weight down to around 27 pounds. I dont think that a Burner will be much different, plus, changing back to the Romic and increasing the Talas's setting back to 125mm will give you a shuttle run bike, now the burner cant do that!
 

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keep the spot

I have a rigid SS 29er and will have my Spot in a month or so. Both are different enough to warrant having two bikes. The Burner and the SS would just be to simillar(sp) for me. Now a closeout Burner SS would be kind of cool. My fitness has increased notiecably on the SS which I think will help on the heavier Spot.
 

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... I guess you won't be
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I know what you are saying lambone. I went from a burner to a 5-spot. I found myself launching off bigger and bigger stuff, rockpiles, tree trunks or anything I could bunnyhop. I live in michigan, and we do not really have "tough" trails, so I had to make my rides as adventurous as I could by creating a more fun trail by deliberately hitting stuff that people I ride with usually avoid. My burner was a wonderful bike, but my new search and destroy riding method was beating me up - I realize that I needed more bike. So, I got a 5-spot, thinking that it would be a burner deluxe. For the most part it is, and I can really get away with stuff that would just hammer me on my old 1999 burner. Mission accomplished.

However - I used to race xc on my burner on occasion. With my heavy duty build for my 5-spot [32-33 lbs], xc racing is out of the question. I definitely realize that this is WAY too much bike for the midwest, but what is wrong with too much? Sure I could xc race it [I raced it in a 24 hr race recently and it was a joy to pilot for the whole way], but why waste 35 bucks to race at a disadvantage - I use my cyclocrosser for the odd xc racing now. The thing is, you have to get used to the 5-spot, and realize it ain't no cheetah. It's a pure fun bike, so if it takes you a little longer to get up that next hill, or you see your friends creep away from you on the pavement road you take to the trail, don't let it bother you - it's just different. The spot is an incredible machine - it's really up to you how you set your limits on it. Give it more time, let go of the "gotta get there fast" mentality and you will really see what makes it such a fun bike.
 

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Slap an air shock and fork on the Spot and whatever more xc-oriented components you would have put on the Burner and you basically have a Burner. There is nothing inherent to the frames themselves which cannot be overcome through component choices to totally alter the flavor of the final product. You cannot make a DHR into an xc rig, but you can definitely xc-out a Spot. Keep the frame.
 

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I also have a 5 Spot and have tried a Burner,I found the Burner very stable but it was more instant power than my Spot.My bike is 28 pounds so no heavy weight,would an air shock give it a similer ride to the Burner on long climbs?
 

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What shock on the Burner, and what's on your Spot? If you were to put a 5th Element Air on the Spot, it would have a VERY firm pedaling platform but still descend beautifully. They are stupid light and unfortunately reliable to match. A Propedal AVA or a Pushed Float may give you the platform you want too without worrying if the shock will survive the ride like the 5th. The 04 Manitou Swingers do NOT have very aggressive platforms, but those are increased for 05 apparently, and that was not an improvement according to DGC.

I have an XCE (very close to the Burner) and a Spot. They do handle quite differently, but then they are set up differently. The XCE is more nimble and lower slung, more "darty" and squirts though tight trees. The Spot is taller and a spot more ponderous. That has everything to do with the handling (mainly from wheelbase) and almost nothing to do with the amount of travel. Without knowing Lambone's or MrPink's Spot and Burner setups, we will never get far with this.
 

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Keep the Spot

Lambone said:
Am I crazy to start thinking I should sell my Spot and buy a Supergo Burner Frame?

Anybody else feel like the Spot is too much bike for general XC use? Yeah I like to jump off stuff, but nothing to big...mostly just your standard knee high type jump/drop.

Seems like I'm pedaling alot of extra weight uphill and not really reaping the full rewards...my everyday trails are pretty smooth and uneventful.

I just recently bought a fully rigid singlespeed and realized that it is almost as nice to ride as the 5 Spot! Well...in a different sort of way....it is a rough ride, but it is so light and snappy that it makes flat trails and uphil so much more exiting. I defiately want to keep a FS bike, but I'm thinking maybe I just went overboard with the 5 Spot and should have went with the cheaper and lighter Burner.

Am I nuts to start second guessing this? Anybody else think the Burner is the better bike for your average XC rider?

Thanks
I am a recent 5 Spot owner with 4 rides on the bike. I have a fox ava and talas fork, crossmax sl wheels. Basically, it's a XC set up weighing in at 27 lbs (lg frame). Prior to the Spot, I rode an EW Truth that weighed about the same (same setup except the rear shock was a ti springed romic EXC. The main attraction to get the Spot was the 69 deg. h/a and the increased dh stability that goes along with it. I have not yet noticed a significant difference in its overall handling even though my EW had a h/a of almost 71 deg., but I have noticed the increased dh stability. When I want tighter handling or have to climb steep trails I reduce the travel of the fork which is what I also did w/the EW.
 

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Get what you want...

The 5 Spot is an awesome bike and I would love to have one in addition to my current ride. However for what I do most of the time, agile handling and a bit more pep are more advantageous than more travel and extra stability. It would only get used to its potential a couple times a year on epic trips to the mountains. Sounds like you've done some soul searching and are in the same boat. I sold my Switchblade and replaced with a Hammerhead for a lot of the same reasons. Unless you can afford multiple bikes, you really need to find one that fits what you're going to be doing most of the time. The Burner is a insane deal at $850 so I really don't think you'll be loosing any money.

[donning flame suit] As nice as the 5 Spot is, it's not the perfect bike for everyone. Good luck in your quest.
 

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I've had a similar sort of realization with my Heckler -- I've broken tons of bike parts and assumed I had to get a super burly frame. The more I rode, however, the more I realized that my bike was way overkill for my style and the trails I ride.

One difference, though, is that the Heckler is sort of locked into the heavy duty trailbike category -- I already tricked it out with strong but light components to a 28 pound machine and it still is a pain in the ass to pedal uphill. I miss that old shooting forward feeling.

I would imagine that an airshock and lower front on a Spot would essentially recreate a Burner, so that's worth a shot. The 5 spot strikes me as more XC worthy than the Heckler.


I just got a Burner frame, yesterday and it is being built up. FWIW, the frame looks cool as hell.
 

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My 5 Spot build is,Medium frame with Romic shock,xtr shifters,discs,mechs,pedals,xt chainset,317+King hubs,Race Face post,head set,carbon bars,Fsa stem,Flite,Talas RL.So apart from the weight how would an air shock make the Spot ride like the Burner. What are the frame weights with out shocks?
 

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Frame weights are within 0.25# of each other (without shocks). No diff there. A size smaller Spot with a fork cranked down a bit (say set at 110mm of travel) would steepen the HA enough and shorten the wheelbase enough to give it a more Burner-esque ride. An "air" shock all by itself does not denote any specific ride behavior. I tried DGC's Swinger 3-way air and it broke free and was more active when standing to pedal, AND was more plush on fast downhill chatter and medium hits (medium SPV pressure) than my Romic coil with its compression set full fast. In other words, the Swinger air was more coil-like than my coil in terms of people's perception of what each shock's spring type typically brings to the ride. At the other end of the spectrum is the 5th Air. A very firm ride indeed.

Let's say you pump your 5-Spot equipped air shock excessively up to limit travel to 3.6". You now have a bike with the same travel as the Burner. It still won't feel exactly like the Burner. It is not the amount of travel which determines the handling characteristics, it is the rest of the geometry. So contrary to my first general statement, no you cannot make a Spot into a Burner, but you can come sorta close. Lowering the Talas to around 100-110mm, adding preload to the Romic and stiffening up the compression dampening will make the bike peppier, but in the end you are still riding higher up off the ground than on the Burner, and that contributes a lot to the bike's feel. It would be interesting for you to be able to try out a size small Spot (if you aren't at the tall end of the medium already) just for comparison's sake. This may sound odd, but most RF posts are setback. Do you have a short stem with a setback post? Perhaps a rearward weight bias makes the bike feel slack. A straight post and longer stem would ease you up into more of an XC position (which I personally prefer). I am just making suggestions which are cheaper and more accessible than tossing the frame and starting over.
 

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I tried DGC's Swinger 3-way air and it broke free and was more active when standing to pedal, AND was more plush on fast downhill chatter and medium hits (medium SPV pressure) than my Romic coil with its compression set full fast. In other words, the Swinger air was more coil-like than my coil in terms of people's perception of what each shock's spring type typically brings to the ride.
Interesting. DGC felt the Swinger wasn't as plush in the fast chatter:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=33311

It is not the amount of travel which determines the handling characteristics, it is the rest of the geometry.
I'm curious as to what makes you say this? The amount of travel doesn't necessarily "determine" the handling but it does have an impact, which can be greater or lesser depending on the amount of difference, and the quality of the difference.
 
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