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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi; I've been riding my new 5-Spot for almost a month and loving it. However, I also find myself wishing for 6 inches of rear wheel travel. Is there any truth to the rumor that Turner is coming out with a new 6 inch ride; something between the 5-Spot and the RFX, or did I make that one up out of delusional thinking?

If Turner is coming out with a new 6 inch ride, great. If not, what do you think the next best option would be for a 6 inch bike; one that would still weigh in at sub-30lbs?

Is it possible to trim an RFX with 6 inch rockers below 30 lbs? I've got pretty lightweight components; XTR wheelset, Hayes Mag Plus with Ti hardware, Ti spring on my Romic, Easton Carbon seatpost, Race Face Carbon stem, X-O rear/XT front-what do you think, is it possible to get the RFX under 30lbs with a coil shock?

If Turner is not coming out with a 6 inch bike and the would RFX weighs too much, I thought about getting the Ventana X 5; what do you guys think? I know the Ventana Bikes do not have the classic 4-bar/horst link set up and that conserns me. I had a Giant VT 1 with a Romic Coil spring and it was nice-but at the end of the day it was still a 4-bar single pivot set up; not near as efficient as my 5-Spot-especially when it comes to rolling over stuff and climbing.

Any feedback would be much appreciated. I suppose the one idea I didn't really stop to consider is swapping my medium 5-Spot frame for a large 5-Spot; I'm 5' 11" and right on the edge when it comes to getting the 5-Spot to fit. Do you think a large frame would give me a little extra beef on the trail compared to my medium frame. I'm a porker too-I weigh 225.
Thanks, you guys seem to know your stuff when it comes to Turner bikes.
Turtle 1
 

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The 6-Pack appears to be more than a rumor seeing as how Dave Turner himself showed up here recently and said he had gotten pics of the front triangle back from the fabricator and said we would need to change our shorts once we saw it. I bet they are doing everything in their power to have one or two build up by Interbike (early October) and they *may* have them in stores by mid January, but knowing how far behind schedule other Turner model roll-outs were, this seems wildly optimistic imo. Nothing but speculation as to what the specs will be. 6" front and back. Heavier duty than the Spot, probably less-so than the RFX. A 'tweener (~8 lb?). This is what I can sum up from the official and unofficial rumors here, anyway.

You could build an RFX to sub 30 with effort, including using a Maverick fork and XC bits. I'd wait and see what the 6-Pack looks like if all you want is travel, and not "gosh, that drop didn't look like 15 feet..." surviveability.

The X5 is a stunning machine, and being able to convert it to 6" is pretty cool. They can apparently run DC forks, so they are likely beefier than 5-Spots. Probably a good analogy for what the 6-Pack will be. People coming off true 4-bars and getting on Ventanas pretty much uniformally declare that they don't really notice more bob or brake-stiffening, so this is probably a minor issue. The thing which gives me pause for thought about the X6 is that you end up with a very tall bb height. On the order of 14.75" when matched with a 520mm A-C fork. That really is awfully tall. Maybe good for East coast tech work, not so nice for West coast cruising. The RFX is more like 14.25".

Keep your pants on. "Help is on the way..."
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
tscheezy said:
The 6-Pack appears to be more than a rumor seeing as how Dave Turner himself showed up here recently and said he had gotten pics of the front triangle back from the fabricator and said we would need to change our shorts once we saw it. I bet they are doing everything in their power to have one or two build up by Interbike (early October) and they *may* have them in stores by mid January, but knowing how far behind schedule other Turner model roll-outs were, this seems wildly optimistic imo. Nothing but speculation as to what the specs will be. 6" front and back. Heavier duty than the Spot, probably less-so than the RFX. A 'tweener (~8 lb?). This is what I can sum up from the official and unofficial rumors here, anyway.

You could build an RFX to sub 30 with effort, including using a Maverick fork and XC bits. I'd wait and see what the 6-Pack looks like if all you want is travel, and not "gosh, that drop didn't look like 15 feet..." surviveability.

The X5 is a stunning machine, and being able to convert it to 6" is pretty cool. They can apparently run DC forks, so they are likely beefier than 5-Spots. Probably a good analogy for what the 6-Pack will be. People coming off true 4-bars and getting on Ventanas pretty much uniformally declare that they don't really notice more bob or brake-stiffening, so this is probably a minor issue. The thing which gives me pause for thought about the X6 is that you end up with a very tall bb height. On the order of 14.75" when matched with a 520mm A-C fork. That really is awfully tall. Maybe good for East coast tech work, not so nice for West coast cruising. The RFX is more like 14.25".

Keep your pants on. "Help is on the way..."
Hi and thanks for news, update and solid feedback. You're right-I'll sit still and wait to see what Santa has in his bag-the 6 pack sounds pretty neat.

The pictures I've seen and the X-5 frame I looked at are pretty sweet. Yes, the X-5 is beefier than the 5-Spot and it weighs a bit more too. We guessed an X5 would probably build to around 30lbs; not bad for 6 inches, but not as easy to pedal as a 28lb bike. Up here in WA we have a bunch of steep trails-but that stuff is for youngsters anyway.

My issue with the tall bottom bracket isn't the height so much as it is the steep head angle that comes with the X-5; all Ventana bikes have steep head angles. Sherwood Gibson told me that in an email. Even the La Bruja has a steep head angle-and that's not for me.

I had an Ellsworth Id for a while and ended up hating it-it was just too tall, too steep and drove me crazy trying to find a point of ballance; I wouldn't want to go through the same experience with the X-5. Too tall and too steep in the head is not for me.

I looked at a Moment here in Seattle at the Downhill Zone-it was nice-but it was around 35lbs-too much for me to puch uphill; strictly free ride from my point of view.

I love the look of the RFX and I know it's got the right angles and suspension-my problem is the weight-holy smokes-Turtles are hard to please.

Now if I could just find a 6 inch or even 5.75 inch 5-Spot I'd be a happy camper.

Thanks again for taking the time to write and answer my crazy quesitons.
Turtle 1
 

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Hey Turtle,
I live in seattle, if your ever interested in checking out my RFX you can PM me. It started at about 32lbs with fairly light parts and a z1 fork. Since then most of the light stuff has fallen off and been replaced by heavier, more durable parts, bigger DH tubeless tires, and a marzocchi 6" Z150 fork. Still has king hubs on light-ish wheels. Haven't weighed it but it's probably 36lbs right now.

I'm pretty curious about the 6-pack. Tcheezy can vouch, I really struggled choosing between the 5-spot and the RFX. I'm supremely happy with the RFX and will likely keep it. However it's cool to see that DT has his ears to the ground. If I was shopping I would surely wait for more news on the 6-pack. Teamed up with a fox 36, that would be one sick bike!

PS, with a Z150 and IRC kujo DH 2.35 tires my BB is 14.6". Doesn't feel too tall for a true 6" bike.... comes with the territory.
 

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mad aussie
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Problem is, as travel goes up, then the frame does need to be beefier, and so does the fork and other components. My guess is you could probably build a 6 pack to a little under 30 pounds, but it would be harder to get lighter than that with a coil shock.
Honestly, can you really tell a difference between a 30lb bike and a 28lb bike? That is no more than a 1/4 camelback.
 

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Turtle, the X5 is a 5" bike stock, but you can put a longer stroke shock and La Bruja rockers on to make it 6". Yes, the HA would be very steep with a Fox Vanilla, still steepish with a Z1, and probably very stable with a Z150. FM's (aka "whatshisface" ;)) RFX doesn't hit 14.6" in the bb until he puts a 538mm A-C fork on! A Z150 on an X6 would give you a 15"+ bb height, back in Id zone. It seems like the X5 was not engineered with the 6" option in mind per se, it just happened to work out more or less ( a common remark by X6 owners is "boy this thing feels tall") using the other bike's rockers and a longer shock. The Id just seemed misengineered from the start, otoh.

Like I said before, only Turner knows what the 6-Pack will look like, but trust Dave not to do anything wacky on geometry. If all the other bikes which have come out of his stable are an indication, it will be balanced, perfectly proportioned, and eminently suited to the task at hand. In other words, worth waiting for...

You might want to call around and see if you can demo a Yeti 575 someplace. I rode one for a day in St. George, Utah, and it is a very nice ride indeed. Very light for a 5.75" frame. Nimble in the techy stuff, but stable at speed. It handled like my XCE, but with noticeably more travel. Great bike. That thing paired with a Maverick fork would be a long-travel climbing machine! My only reservation is with its durability.
 

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I am also eagerly awaiting info/pics of the 6 pack

tscheezy said:
The 6-Pack appears to be more than a rumor seeing as how Dave Turner himself showed up here recently and said he had gotten pics of the front triangle back from the fabricator and said we would need to change our shorts once we saw it. I bet they are doing everything in their power to have one or two build up by Interbike (early October) and they *may* have them in stores by mid January, but knowing how far behind schedule other Turner model roll-outs were, this seems wildly optimistic imo. Nothing but speculation as to what the specs will be. 6" front and back. Heavier duty than the Spot, probably less-so than the RFX. A 'tweener (~8 lb?). This is what I can sum up from the official and unofficial rumors here, anyway.

You could build an RFX to sub 30 with effort, including using a Maverick fork and XC bits. I'd wait and see what the 6-Pack looks like if all you want is travel, and not "gosh, that drop didn't look like 15 feet..." surviveability.

The X5 is a stunning machine, and being able to convert it to 6" is pretty cool. They can apparently run DC forks, so they are likely beefier than 5-Spots. Probably a good analogy for what the 6-Pack will be. People coming off true 4-bars and getting on Ventanas pretty much uniformally declare that they don't really notice more bob or brake-stiffening, so this is probably a minor issue. The thing which gives me pause for thought about the X6 is that you end up with a very tall bb height. On the order of 14.75" when matched with a 520mm A-C fork. That really is awfully tall. Maybe good for East coast tech work, not so nice for West coast cruising. The RFX is more like 14.25".

Keep your pants on. "Help is on the way..."
The big question I have is will it mearly be a longer travel spot, in which case I would not be interested. I would only be interested if it was built stronger. Not that I have a problem with my Spot as it is really...I just seem to be aiming for bigger stuff lately and wouldn't mind adding a little weight for the peace of mind know the frame can handle my weight and poor drop technique. I would even be happy with a burlier Spot with the same travel.

By the way, and this may have been already talked about--I will search when done typing--but is there a generally accepted drop limit for the spot?---I mean very general as I know how many variables there are. Real limits? I am talking drops to flat (for worst case scenario limits) and I weigh 190 and have decent--not great--technique. What's the word? I have been limiting drops to max 4 feet but have seen others do consistent, week in and week out 5 footers on an XCE that is a few years onld now with zero problems (more skillful rider than I however)

If the 6 pack is burlier, it may be the perfect bike for me as I like to do long rides with lots of pedaling and climbing and enjoying sampling all that the terain has to offer, including the occasional drop when part of the natural flow of the trail (Lynn Woods MA). A big hit bike would be useless to me as my group tends to ride relatively fast. I think the 6 pack would (could) make the perfect tweener bike for our type of riding here in New England.
 

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Sounds perfect.

turnerbikes said:
68 Head angle
72 Seat angle
14.25 BB with 435mm fork
17.1 Chainstay
I won't use a 535mm fork. I will keep the Nixon I have ordered, which would lower my BB and steepen the HA a bit. I am assuming these will be available by next spring which works fine for me as the riding season here is a little more than half over and I will end up putting two full seasons of riding on my spot.

I also assume the 6 pack will be spec'ed with a DHX.
 

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turnerbikes said:
68 Head angle
72 Seat angle
14.25 BB with 435mm fork
17.1 Chainstay
Dear Dave,

I really feel that the Spot's chainstays are a little on the long side, and I am disappointed to see even longer stays on the 6 Pack. This really might be a deal breaker for me, as I find my 5 Spot significantly harder to manual/wheelie than other bikes in it's category, most notably the Specialized Enduro and Santa Cruz Heckler that sit beside the Turners on the sales floor.

While I understand this decision was probably made with things like high speed stability and big tire clearance in mind, I do not feel that the excellent handling your bikes have exhibited so far should be sacrificed for these qualities. I sell your frames to my customers based on quality, handling and fit. I beg you to reconsider.

Regards,
Graham Mattingly
Sales Floor Manager
Another Bike Shop
Santa Cruz, CA
 

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mad aussie
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Kracker said:
Dear Dave,

I really feel that the Spot's chainstays are a little on the long side, and I am disappointed to see even longer stays on the 6 Pack. This really might be a deal breaker for me, as I find my 5 Spot significantly harder to manual/wheelie than other bikes in it's category, most notably the Specialized Enduro and Santa Cruz Heckler that sit beside the Turners on the sales floor.

While I understand this decision was probably made with things like high speed stability and big tire clearance in mind, I do not feel that the excellent handling your bikes have exhibited so far should be sacrificed for these qualities. I sell your frames to my customers based on quality, handling and fit. I beg you to reconsider.

Regards,
Graham Mattingly
Sales Floor Manager
Another Bike Shop
Santa Cruz, CA
Hmm! I actually like the longer chainstays on the 5-spot, I havent had any problems with the wheelies, I cant manual to save my life!
I have seen people manual downhill bikes, and they have longer stays than even the 6-pack. Like anything else I think it comes down to personal preference. I would much rather have the option of running 2.5 tires.
 

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turnerbikes said:
68 Head angle
72 Seat angle
14.25 BB with 435mm fork
17.1 Chainstay
That's basically a carbon copy of my RFX geometry. Should be a fun ride for sure. This might be the 8 pound RFX I always wanted. Can't wait to see you guys again in Vegas, hopefully you have samples of all the new bikes to see.
 

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6 Pack

The 6 Pack will be as tough as the RFX but with all new , very cool looking tubing, Even the stays are new, in a Turner sort of way. The weight will be similar to the RFX as one would imagine if it were as strong.

The shock is 7.5 x 2 at 3:1 Fox approved. DHX equipped.

Stays are the length they are because of tire clearance. When I claim a tire will fit, I mean it will fit with room for mud and a little wobble in the rim, and a free ride bike needs room for some beefy tires.

This is a truly solid step between the 5 Spot and the Highline. If it were any lighter like some may dream of, it would not be a worthy intermediate step between rough trail and EXTREME use. Any heavier and it would be too much for a pedaling free rider.

Fork spec is perfect for the Fox 36 and the Marzocchi All Mountain family. More or less is subject to the usual math.

Hope this answers your questions.

David Turner
 

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Hey Turtle, I think for me geometry mattered more than weight. I was riding a 7.25lb 6in 2001 quasi-moto because I thought the RFX was too heavy. My bike was 32lbs. When I decided that my style and drops needed a beefier frame I bought a used RFX to replace the Quasi. After it was done I found out that even though the frame was almost 2lbs heavier I was climbing faster than before.
 

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turnerbikes said:
The 6 Pack will be as tough as the RFX but with all new , very cool looking tubing, Even the stays are new, in a Turner sort of way. The weight will be similar to the RFX as one would imagine if it were as strong.

The shock is 7.5 x 2 at 3:1 Fox approved. DHX equipped.

Stays are the length they are because of tire clearance. When I claim a tire will fit, I mean it will fit with room for mud and a little wobble in the rim, and a free ride bike needs room for some beefy tires.

This is a truly solid step between the 5 Spot and the Highline. If it were any lighter like some may dream of, it would not be a worthy intermediate step between rough trail and EXTREME use. Any heavier and it would be too much for a pedaling free rider.

Fork spec is perfect for the Fox 36 and the Marzocchi All Mountain family. More or less is subject to the usual math.

Hope this answers your questions.

David Turner
Thanks Dave! I always love it when you take the time to check in here. So here's a question... If the 6-pack is not the 6" trail bike that others (not me) were wanting, and weighs as much as an RFX, why not just make the 6" RFX again? Or have you evolved your methods/materials enough to knock enough cost off the RFX to make a redesign worth it? Thanks again, looking forward to seeing it. BTW personally I'm glad it's not a trail bike and that it bridges the gap between 5spot and Highline much better. This fills a void much better than having 3-4-5-6" Race-Trail bikes and then a huge jump to the XFR Highline. Thumbs up from me!
 

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If you really want a 6" 5S...

...you could try contacting the fella who makes custom 7" rockers for RFXs (search the threads). This is going to bring up your BB, steepen the HA and may bring your rear tire into your ST. If you phook up the frame or yourself as a result you would have no recourse to Turner. Short of that, if you want a 6" travel bike expect it to built like a 6" travel bike...burly.

You'd be hard pressed to get an RFX under 30#. I tried as an experiment...air shocks, "lightish" wheels/tires, 1x8 drivetrain, etc. Never got below 32# (large frame). Sure, I still had room to further lighten with even lighter wheels/tires and swapping out the DH brakes for XC ones but what is the point of a burly, long travel frame with ballerina slippers? That's akin to swapping wheels from a Civic to a Viper and then beyatching that you can't control the Viper.

That said, like anything else, if you can keep the rotating weight down an extra 2" in the frame ain't gonna hurt you. The Banshee Chapparral is around 11# for the frameset (per BIKE mag) - makes my Romic-sprung RFX seem svelte at 9.5#.

Sean

PS - Still waiting for that 29er Burner.
 
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