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Celica vs 575 Marinello

It's a little like comparing a Toyota Celica to a Ferrari. They are both high performance bikes, but one is mass produced in Taiwan using cheaper forged frame members, whereas the other is hand made in the USA, by Intense Cycles, with expensive CNC frame members and custom tubing. This is also reflected in the cost, the Blur is 2/3 the price of the 5.5

Blur LT: Lower price due to mass production in Taiwan and forged frame parts. Tiiiiny bearings compared to 5.5. 17.2" chainstays.

5.5: Higher price due to CNC frame parts, and hand made in the USA, by Intense. 16.8" chainstays.

Blur LT has about 1 degree slacker head angle if used with same fork as the 5.5. 5.5 works with longer forks than Blur LT without becoming too slack.

Both are good bikes. You can't go wrong with either. Base your desicion on if the way it's made means anything to you, and also on which frame gives you best local service.

Ole.
 

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Penny's my cow-cat
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Bad question

yarondot said:
Please convince me whay should I get the 5.5 and not the blur LT
What is the difference betwin them
Yarondot, you should've asked "What should I get the 6.6 or the Blur LT". Really though, if I were you I go for the 6.6, or at least be considering it. Now go and think some more! :D
 

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Ole said:
It's a little like comparing a Toyota Celica to a Ferrari. They are both high performance bikes, but one is mass produced in Taiwan using cheaper forged frame members, whereas the other is hand made in the USA, by Intense Cycles, with expensive CNC frame members and custom tubing. This is also reflected in the cost, the Blur is 2/3 the price of the 5.5

Blur LT: Lower price due to mass production in Taiwan and forged frame parts. Tiiiiny bearings compared to 5.5. 17.2" chainstays.

5.5: Higher price due to CNC frame parts, and hand made in the USA, by Intense. 16.8" chainstays.

Blur LT has about 1 degree slacker head angle if used with same fork as the 5.5. 5.5 works with longer forks than Blur LT without becoming too slack.

Both are good bikes. You can't go wrong with either. Base your desicion on if the way it's made means anything to you, and also on which frame gives you best local service.

Ole.
I believe all Santa Cruz VPP bikes are built in the US too.
Per Rob Roskopp...
"A company in Portland, OR called Sapa is currently making all the VPP bikes in the U.S. All the single pivot bikes and hardtails are made in Taiwan."

http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/company/index.php?news=1&NewsID=0161
 

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Penny's my cow-cat
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say what

Hanzo90802 said:
I believe all Santa Cruz VPP bikes are built in the US too.
Per Rob Roskopp...
"A company in Portland, OR called Sapa is currently making all the VPP bikes in the U.S. All the single pivot bikes and hardtails are made in Taiwan."

http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/company/index.php?news=1&NewsID=0161
Who or what is a Sapa? Are they SC employees? Does Sapa make bikes for a lot of other bike companies as well? Anybody know? :confused:
 

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Cowboy-jeff said:
Who or what is a Sapa? Are they SC employees? Does Sapa make bikes for a lot of other bike companies as well? Anybody know? :confused:
Sapa does make frames for other companies. They weld the Blur frames. As far as I know, they are Sapa employees and not Sant Cruz employees... They are in Oregon, Portland i believe. I'm not sure where the linkage for the Blur is made. Apparently, they don't only weld bike frames, but they do a whole lot more. Sapa Group

Intense does the welding and machining in house. They make their own linkage and the sweetest riding VPP bikes available.
 

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3.14159265358979323846…
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Ole said:
They make Turner's bikes, so they know what they're doing. :)

Ole.
Yeah, but does Turner know what they're doing ;)

Apparently Sapa knows what they're doing in a number of different industries...
From Sapa's site:

Sapa, Inc. TDA

First choice of engineers and fabricators in a wide range of industries:

* electronics,
* aerospace,
* medical,
* defense,
* recreation and others.
 

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Ole said:
They make Turner's bikes, so they know what they're doing. :)

Ole.
- So, now that you are educated a little, care to share more of your expertise on why exactly a Blur is a "Celica"???
 

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DMFT said:
- So, now that you are educated a little, care to share more of your expertise on why exactly a Blur is a "Celica"???
Maybe the Blur can be compared to dual frame window and door systems :D

Sapa Launches Dual Colour Reversible Window to Complete Dualframe Suite

Sapa Building Systems has added to its Dualframe window and door system with the launch of a new dual-colour Reversible window.

Sapa believes that 'the launch of the Reversible window makes Dualframe the most comprehensive window and door system currently available on the market'.

Specifically designed for new build and refurbishment projects, in particular residential, educational and light commercial, the dual-colour reversible window has been fully weather tested to achieve exposure category '2000 Special'. In keeping with the rest of the Dualframe system, the Reversible window is fully compliant with the thermal requirements of Part L of the Building Regulations.

The window provides a restricted opening position for ventilation and a fully reversed position that allow the window to be cleaned from the inside of the building. The range of hardware available means that it can be adapted to suit individual project requirements and includes an option for multipoint locking where higher levels of security are demanded.

Total design flexibility within the system is achieved through a series of coupling adaptors that ensure it is fully compatible with the Dualframe 75mm casement windows and doors as well as the Dualframe 55mm casement, tilt before turn and pivot windows.
 

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velocipus said:
Maybe the Blur can be compared to dual frame window and door systems :D
I still prefer Intense's dualframe windows. The custom CNC work on those is outstanding. Plus the enduro max bearings that Intense's windows "turn and pivot" on are top notch. Intense's choice of powdercoated windowframe colors and the quality of their window finishing is unmatched.

;)

I wouldn't call a Blur a Celica. Maybe a Camry. Great, reliable, but not nearly as sexy...
 

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velocipus said:
Maybe the Blur can be compared to dual frame window and door systems :D

Sapa Launches Dual Colour Reversible Window to Complete Dualframe Suite

Sapa Building Systems has added to its Dualframe window and door system with the launch of a new dual-colour Reversible window.

Sapa believes that 'the launch of the Reversible window makes Dualframe the most comprehensive window and door system currently available on the market'.

Specifically designed for new build and refurbishment projects, in particular residential, educational and light commercial, the dual-colour reversible window has been fully weather tested to achieve exposure category '2000 Special'. In keeping with the rest of the Dualframe system, the Reversible window is fully compliant with the thermal requirements of Part L of the Building Regulations.

The window provides a restricted opening position for ventilation and a fully reversed position that allow the window to be cleaned from the inside of the building. The range of hardware available means that it can be adapted to suit individual project requirements and includes an option for multipoint locking where higher levels of security are demanded.

Total design flexibility within the system is achieved through a series of coupling adaptors that ensure it is fully compatible with the Dualframe 75mm casement windows and doors as well as the Dualframe 55mm casement, tilt before turn and pivot windows.
O.k.... They have that on Intense....
 

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Skyline not Celica...

DMFT said:
- So, now that you are educated a little, care to share more of your expertise on why exactly a Blur is a "Celica"???
Ok, maybe a Skyline is a better choice than the Celica. Skylines and Ferraris perform equally and extremely well. One is made by hand, one by one, with great attention to performance and details, by someone who only makes sports cars, and have never made anything else. It's their passion. The other is mass produced with great attention to performance and low price, by someone who also makes dump trucks. Both go just as fast on the track.

It's up to you do decide if it matters if the bike was made by the people who designed it, or if it was made by someone who also makes windowframes. It all comes down to preferences. If it doesn't matter to you (meaning you're not a snob), then you just saved 1/3 of the price or more.

In-house manufacturing also brings with it the benefits of seriously speeding up the the time between design, prototyping and production. Which is why the small builders usually are the first to cater to new trends. Like the M1 being the first ever dedicated downhill bike, or the Pugsley being the first ever I-wanna-ride-even-though-we-had-two-feet-of-snow-last-night bike.

Ole.
 

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Ole said:
It's a little like comparing a Toyota Celica to a Ferrari. They are both high performance bikes, but one is mass produced in Taiwan using cheaper forged frame members, whereas the other is hand made in the USA, by Intense Cycles, with expensive CNC frame members and custom tubing. This is also reflected in the cost, the Blur is 2/3 the price of the 5.5

Blur LT: Lower price due to mass production in Taiwan and forged frame parts. Tiiiiny bearings compared to 5.5. 17.2" chainstays.

5.5: Higher price due to CNC frame parts, and hand made in the USA, by Intense. 16.8" chainstays.

Blur LT has about 1 degree slacker head angle if used with same fork as the 5.5. 5.5 works with longer forks than Blur LT without becoming too slack.

Both are good bikes. You can't go wrong with either. Base your desicion on if the way it's made means anything to you, and also on which frame gives you best local service.

Ole.
I own an Intense(Tracer) and love it, but I wouldn't agree with that analogy. As far as I know Blurs are welded in the USA. I wouldn't care if they were welded in Taiwan as far as quality. I know Intense uses CNC parts. I don't think CNC parts are any stronger than forged parts, especially cold forged parts(stronger for a given weight). I don't see many forged parts on the Blur LT (maybe that rear seatstay brace). The Blur uses custom butted tubing.
The Blur uses Ti upper linkage plates. The aluminum 5.5 linkage is probably cheaper? I haven't heard of any custom linkage coming out for the Blur, while Push makes one for the 5.5 to be stiffer and lighter, to help with bearing wear. Intense uses the custom tubing because of their design. To me, the Blur looks more like a traditional bike frame(except for that strut on the non drive side). The Intense looks kind of DH. I know the Nomad uses custom tubing.

I think the price is lower because they can be produced cheaper by the vendor especially with the Blur design. Santa Cruz doesn't have to buy all the machinery for a new design.
The bearings are the same type(max type full compliment angular contact). I think the stays being longer are a trend that longer travel trailbikes are using along with shorter TTs.
Slacker HAs are becoming the trend also. You can easily adjust that with a different fork or an adjustable fork. I do like the rear of the Intense over the Blur. In my mind it looks stiffer, but I may be wrong.

Both bikes need more attention to maintenance of bearings and bushings than other designs. I do like the 6.6 over the Nomad.

I'm still searching for a 7 lb. 5.5-6 in. (real travel) trailbike. Maybe the small 6.6 will fall in that weight range. I've got to visit Intense when the small frame comes out(test ride).
 

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Well thought out reply.....

Quattro said:
I own an Intense(Tracer) and love it, but I wouldn't agree with that analogy. As far as I know Blurs are welded in the USA. I wouldn't care if they were welded in Taiwan as far as quality. I know Intense uses CNC parts. I don't think CNC parts are any stronger than forged parts, especially cold forged parts(stronger for a given weight). I don't see many forged parts on the Blur LT (maybe that rear seatstay brace). The Blur uses custom butted tubing.
The Blur uses Ti upper linkage plates. The aluminum 5.5 linkage is probably cheaper? I haven't heard of any custom linkage coming out for the Blur, while Push makes one for the 5.5 to be stiffer and lighter, to help with bearing wear. Intense uses the custom tubing because of their design. To me, the Blur looks more like a traditional bike frame(except for that strut on the non drive side). The Intense looks kind of DH. I know the Nomad uses custom tubing.

I think the price is lower because they can be produced cheaper by the vendor especially with the Blur design. Santa Cruz doesn't have to buy all the machinery for a new design.
The bearings are the same type(max type full compliment angular contact). I think the stays being longer are a trend that longer travel trailbikes are using along with shorter TTs.
Slacker HAs are becoming the trend also. You can easily adjust that with a different fork or an adjustable fork. I do like the rear of the Intense over the Blur. In my mind it looks stiffer, but I may be wrong.

Both bikes need more attention to maintenance of bearings and bushings than other designs. I do like the 6.6 over the Nomad.

I'm still searching for a 7 lb. 5.5-6 in. (real travel) trailbike. Maybe the small 6.6 will fall in that weight range. I've got to visit Intense when the small frame comes out(test ride).
- I agree with much of this post Don. What target, complete weight are you shooting for?
I have my SCB rep's 29 pound Med. Nomad that has boat anchor tire's on it, and there's more room to get all weight-weenie if ya wanted to...

- I'd also go further to say that Santa Cruz is more the Corvette ZO6 and Intense is the Ferrari ;) and with Italian cars needing a little more attention....well, you know what that means. :D
- If someone can get an Intense for the $$$ of a Santa Cruz, by all means GO FOR IT! Especially if he's getting a choice of shocks, I know I'd not like to be stuck with a Manitou, but that's just me. :p
 

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Santacruz use custom tubing butted for all their designs and all the VPP are made in the USA. Santacruz are not a messproduct and CNC isn't the best way of making frames,CNC is more for making alot of the exact part .The qualtiy control is the what makes the product good and Santacruz are excellent I love that comany.The NOMAD just for example is a peace of art and I ride excellent and beautiful Blur 4x and the price isn't 2/3 it's around the 200 dollars less and I don't see why.Both bikes are great it's just matter of taste.Just ride and have fun.
 
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