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I've got a Stiffee
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've noticed after about 5 rides now of dialing in my 36 Vanilla that I'm running the rebound only 1 click in from full fast. On fast technical trails I'll even tend to open it up all the way. I weigh 160lbs and am using the stock spring w/no preload. The fork feels great and I really would be fine with it as is, however I'm thinking of putting 5wt oil in the right rebound leg. Can anyone give any input on this, anyone tried something like this yet on the 36 Van? I figure it will speed up the rebound and I can just crank in the knob more and have a broader range of useable adjustment. Anyone know the recommended oil amount in the rebound leg (I'll pour the oil into a measuring cup either way)?

BTW: PUSH, if you read this do you plan on having a factory tuning kit available for this fork?
 

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noMAD man
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I'm running 4 clicks of rebound. I'm preparing to do my first oil bath service for break-in, and the manual shows 25cc of oil for each leg...poured in through the bottom like you do with a Sherman. The damper oil shows 55cc. I notice Fox says not to open or service the "closed" damper cartridge unless you're an authorized Fox service center and have the special tools. Hmmmm...just how complicated is an oil change supposed to be for this damper? I've not torn into one of these, but it would be hard to believe that it was rocket science.

Your idea of running 5wt may not be too far off. Just about every HSCV Marz fork I've owned had 5wt. oil replacing the 7wt. I liked the faster compression action, and you were still able to tune the rebound to a proper setting. This is my first Fox fork, and I know they are somewhat different from some of the tuning, service, and function issues with my Marz forks. This Van 36 has performed excellently so far.
 

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Bodhisattva
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The right leg contains a cartridge. It's not open bath.
The cartridge is very complicated and use by those not intimiately familiar with the system is not recommended.

PUSH will not be supporting the 36.
 

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I've got a Stiffee
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913 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The Squeaky Wheel said:
The right leg contains a cartridge. It's not open bath.
The cartridge is very complicated and use by those not intimiately familiar with the system is not recommended.

PUSH will not be supporting the 36.
So its not a Zokie style take off the top cap, pour oil out, refill type of oil change then?

TNC, if you tear into yours please let me know what is involved ;)
 

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Bodhisattva
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FXRob said:
So its not a Zokie style take off the top cap, pour oil out, refill type of oil change then?
No, it's not. And the cartridge is exceedingly complex. It definitely is not for the typical home user or shop employee. I've seen PUSH take them apart and it's quite intimidating. But good luck if you do and let us know how it went.
 

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I've got a Stiffee
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913 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
The Squeaky Wheel said:
No, it's not. And the cartridge is exceedingly complex. It definitely is not for the typical home user or shop employee. I've seen PUSH take them apart and it's quite intimidating. But good luck if you do and let us know how it went.
Squeaky, thanks for the reply. I know you're somewhat of an insider with PUSH, is the fact that the cartridge is so complex that is keeping PUSH from developing any kits for the 36(would take too much time)? Or is there just not much room for improvement on these forks?

Also do you think PUSH would be willing to swap out the oil to 5wt for me or is that something they wouldn't want to do? I'll probably end up tearing into someday (I'm an auto mechanic so it shouldn't be too hard, lol), but was just wondering.
 

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noMAD man
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Damn, you're scaring me!

The Squeaky Wheel said:
No, it's not. And the cartridge is exceedingly complex. It definitely is not for the typical home user or shop employee. I've seen PUSH take them apart and it's quite intimidating. But good luck if you do and let us know how it went.
Squeak, that sounds hairy. I doubt that I, or anyone else, would really want tear into the cart itself...extensive disassembly of the actual cart, I mean. But why would changing the oil be such a chore. As I said I've not been into one and don't claim to be a Fox expert at all. I have serviced nitrogen charged motorcycle shocks and am familiar with having to bleed the air from those systems for them to operate correctly after an oil change. I am smart enough to leave something alone if indeed enough special tools and specialized knowledge of a particular component is required. Are we basically saying that changing the oil in the damper requires extensive disassembly of the cartridge? If Darren or anyone else could speak to that it would be appreciated.
 

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TNC said:
Squeak, that sounds hairy. I doubt that I, or anyone else, would really want tear into the cart itself...extensive disassembly of the actual cart, I mean. But why would changing the oil be such a chore. As I said I've not been into one and don't claim to be a Fox expert at all. I have serviced nitrogen charged motorcycle shocks and am familiar with having to bleed the air from those systems for them to operate correctly after an oil change. I am smart enough to leave something alone if indeed enough special tools and specialized knowledge of a particular component is required. Are we basically saying that changing the oil in the damper requires extensive disassembly of the cartridge? If Darren or anyone else could speak to that it would be appreciated.
Fox manual says to only change the damper oil every 200 hours. Since it's semi bath, it doesn't get dirty easily like Zokes. I guess they don't expect anyone to change the damper oil. Sounds shady to me. I don't think I like Fox's policy of making stuff that even bike shops can't touch. Is fox trying to make money on the backend off people by forcing them to send their fork in and pay Fox to do regular maintenance?

I starting to have horrific flashbacks of those damn Head Shocks Can O' Ale used to use. They had to go in once every 8 months to get fixed.
 

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noMAD man
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Head Shock...LOL!

SpawningGround said:
Fox manual says to only change the damper oil every 200 hours. Since it's semi bath, it doesn't get dirty easily like Zokes. I guess they don't expect anyone to change the damper oil. Sounds shady to me. I don't think I like Fox's policy of making stuff that even bike shops can't touch. Is fox trying to make money on the backend off people by forcing them to send their fork in and pay Fox to do regular maintenance?

I starting to have horrific flashbacks of those damn Head Shocks Can O' Ale used to use. They had to go in once every 8 months to get fixed.
Yeah, they were a "Head-ache"...pun intended. Even though it hasn't been stated officially, I'm guessing that closed 36 damper is one that is critical to air bleeding before the damper is sealed up. The Head Shock was critical to air bleeding and was frequently a problem because of it. That said, however, I'll bet Fox has a better handle on the design and reliability of its damper. Still, I definitely want to be able to service my own damper if it doesn't require too much in the way of special tool purchases or NASA level engineering to work on...and by service, all I really care about is an oil change, not cart manipulation.

After Squeak's comment about PUSH having been into this damper, I'd like to hear Darren's opinion about the ability of a decent mechanic being able to change the oil without too much catastrophic outcome. Darren's comments and pics of that Q-ring issue on some Fox rear air shocks was tremendous, and I'd bet he can shed some light on this closed damper issue. And Darren...I'd bet if you give us some technical insight on this damper, there still won't be many who'd want to get into servicing one. Honest, I'm not trying to take food out of your children's mouths...honest. :D
 

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36 and 40

Howdy,

Unfortunately, the 36 and 40 cartridges are not user serviceable. It's not so much the complexity, as it is the tooling necessary. The cartridge has a lot of sensitive parts that require the correct tooling to not destroy them.

Rob, in regards to your rebound issue, it sounds like it's more of a rebound piston flow issue rather than the bleed hole in the shaft that you're adjusting with the external dial. Unfortunately, the only way to increase this flow is to remove the stock piston, drill the rebound ports out and reassemble the fork. Seeing how the fork comes stock with 7.5, I don't think that going to 5 would be the difference that you're looking for.

Darren
 

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noMAD man
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Wink, wink...I get it.

PUSHIND said:
Howdy,

Unfortunately, the 36 and 40 cartridges are not user serviceable. It's not so much the complexity, as it is the tooling necessary. The cartridge has a lot of sensitive parts that require the correct tooling to not destroy them.

Rob, in regards to your rebound issue, it sounds like it's more of a rebound piston flow issue rather than the bleed hole in the shaft that you're adjusting with the external dial. Unfortunately, the only way to increase this flow is to remove the stock piston, drill the rebound ports out and reassemble the fork. Seeing how the fork comes stock with 7.5, I don't think that going to 5 would be the difference that you're looking for.

Darren
Darren, you can PM me with details after the Fox rep with the gun to your head leaves the building. I understand how protective these industry goons can be.

Just kidding, obviously. :D Well, that's not what I wanted to hear, but if it is what it is, then I'll live with it. I guess it won't be any different than the closed damper on most rear shocks that pretty much require factory service only, but I hate that having dealt with Marzocchi forks for the most part, an owner can get do a damper oil change. I realize that most Marz carts are obviously not user serviceable, but at least you can change the oil. Thanks for your reply, Darren.
 

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TNC said:
Darren, you can PM me with details after the Fox rep with the gun to your head leaves the building. I understand how protective these industry goons can be.

Just kidding, obviously. :D Well, that's not what I wanted to hear, but if it is what it is, then I'll live with it. I guess it won't be any different than the closed damper on most rear shocks that pretty much require factory service only, but I hate that having dealt with Marzocchi forks for the most part, an owner can get do a damper oil change. I realize that most Marz carts are obviously not user serviceable, but at least you can change the oil. Thanks for your reply, Darren.
Did he mean that you can't change the oil. What does user servicable actually mean? or was he talking about getting the damper apart. I've seen disected views and it doesn't look too complicated. Must be all about the special tools, which we all know MacGuiver can find easy substitutes. I build computers, so I don't think I would have a problem with the technical aspects.

True, not much different than a rear shock. Plus if 7 wt is good for you, then sending it in once a year doesn't sound too bad.

Man, if you thought changing the oil on a Zoke was easy. Try doing it to one of the new Motion Control rockshox forks. They put Marzocchi to shame in terms of ease and user servucability.
 
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