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I'm lacing up (my first wheel build) a Stan's 29er FR rim to a 240s hub with wheelsmith 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes and brass nips. My question focuses on spoke tension. Stan recommends not exceeding around 95 kg. Is this an average of all the spokes or only on the drive side? If this is drive side only, seems like the non-drive side would have pretty low tension, maybe in the 70's. Again, this is my first wheel build, so excuse the dopey question . :D
Thanks!
-jon
 

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jlang002 said:
I'm lacing up (my first wheel build) a Stan's 29er FR rim to a 240s hub with wheelsmith 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes and brass nips. My question focuses on spoke tension. Stan recommends not exceeding around 95 kg. Is this an average of all the spokes or only on the drive side? If this is drive side only, seems like the non-drive side would have pretty low tension, maybe in the 70's. Again, this is my first wheel build, so excuse the dopey question . :D
Thanks!
-jon
On a wheel with dish, the recommended tension is for the side with the shortest spokes, as that's the side with the highest tension. In your case, rear drive side.

However, on Stan's ZTR FR, the 95kg recommendation does not apply. Find Wheelsmith's recommended tension's and tighten the spokes to the high end of their range.

MC
 

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95kg?

That seems like very very low tension. I build disc wheels to about 120kg on the high tension sides - disc side front, drive side rear. (95kg is the tension of a radial front road wheel, maybe...) A rule of thumb is that the low tension side is usually 60-70% of what the high tension side is. I do understand that 120kg pushes the tension recomendations of some rims.

The draw back of low tension is more fatige on the heads of the spokes, as they will move around in the hubs spoke holes and can eventually break. A flexy wheel would be the other concern, which is more of an issue with an undertightened 29" wheel.

Mikesee, what's your input?
 

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DaveA said:
That seems like very very low tension. I build disc wheels to about 120kg on the high tension sides - disc side front, drive side rear. (95kg is the tension of a radial front road wheel, maybe...) A rule of thumb is that the low tension side is usually 60-70% of what the high tension side is. I do understand that 120kg pushes the tension recomendations of some rims.

The draw back of low tension is more fatige on the heads of the spokes, as they will move around in the hubs spoke holes and can eventually break. A flexy wheel would be the other concern, which is more of an issue with an undertightened 29" wheel.

Mikesee, what's your input?
IMO, 95kg = an unfinished wheel. NoTubes recommends 95kg on their ridiculight rims (all but the ZTR FR, AFAIK) and I suspect this is because the extrusions are so thin, and there are no eyelets to help distibute the stress that 100kg+ put onto the spoke holes. In other words, if you were to bring a NoTubes rim up to full tension (~120kg), you'd probably pull nips through the rim holes in short order.

But that's just my theory. Perhaps someone from NoTubes will chime in.

I've always wanted to bring one of their rims up to full tension and ride it for a while to see what would happen. Cost keeps me from completing the experiment--rims, spokes, and nips don't grow on trees around here...

xl_cheese said:
They recommend 95kg with use of AMclass and wtb hubs that have the same flange spacing. Both sides of the wheel are ~95kg. Seems better to have both sides equal at 95 then have one side 120 and the other 80...
Agreed that both sides equal is better than hi/lo (this is why dedicated SS rear hubs build such bomber wheels), but that's only part of the equation. You also need to have a decent amount of triangulation from flange to rim. How much is debatable, but having ridden the AC/WTB hubs, I'd argue that you need more than they offer. The more even tension is still not enough to offset the narrow flange width. Excessive wheel flex is the result.

MC
 

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shiggy said:
The notubes site has been updated and the FR rim has a listed tension range of 85-95.
http://www.notubes.com/support_wheelset.php
Strange. MikeB from NoTubes wrote (in an earlier thread that I searched for but could not find) something to the effect that he'd warranty any ZTR FR failure no matter what spoke or tension was used. I took him at his word and have been lacing them for the last few months using 2.0/1.8, 2.3/1.8, and 2.0 sg spokes at ~120+ kg.

The only 700c/29" rim that has proven as durable or more durable is the KH Uni. Zero failures and very little need for truing of the ZTR FR, despite having ridden them the last few months on my Behemoth.

??

MC
 

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mikesee said:
Strange. MikeB from NoTubes wrote (in an earlier thread that I searched for but could not find) something to the effect that he'd warranty any ZTR FR failure no matter what spoke or tension was used. I took him at his word and have been lacing them for the last few months using 2.0/1.8, 2.3/1.8, and 2.0 sg spokes at ~120+ kg.

The only 700c/29" rim that has proven as durable or more durable is the KH Uni. Zero failures and very little need for truing of the ZTR FR, despite having ridden them the last few months on my Behemoth.

??

MC
I remember Mike writing that. I thought the change was strange, too.
 

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xl_cheese said:
They recommend 95kg with use of AMclass and wtb hubs that have the same flange spacing. Both sides of the wheel are ~95kg. Seems better to have both sides equal at 95 then have one side 120 and the other 80...
Yes and no. A wheel with equal tension but narrow flange spacing will flex laterally but stay true. A wheel with wider flange spacing will be stiffer laterally but depending on how low the NDS rension is may ( I said may not that it will) require some type of locking nipple like Dt prolock or Sapim polyaxe sip to stay tight.
 
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