29'er Colnago?
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overhyped?!!!!
guess you don't like fine craftsmanship AND made in italy? yes, i would really rather
have one of those far east made carbon bikes. yeah sign me up for an almost equally
priced carbon specialized s-works frame! it is like comparing a sidi shoe to a chinese
made shoe, if you can't visually see the difference, then you will never get it!
guess you don't like fine craftsmanship AND made in italy? yes, i would really rather
have one of those far east made carbon bikes. yeah sign me up for an almost equally
priced carbon specialized s-works frame! it is like comparing a sidi shoe to a chinese
made shoe, if you can't visually see the difference, then you will never get it!
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That would ride a lot faster if it had Michelin tires on it.
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Why would it not be possible for a Chinese manufactured carbon frame to be of equal quality?peabody said:
China is the new Taiwan as far as manufaturing bike frames goes, while Taiwan is a step above the US now. Of course, one needs to pay top (Chinese or Taiwanese) dollar to get the top end manufacturing process and finishing, but they certainly have the knowhow.
BTW, you are a Colnago owner I take it?
i do not own a colnago
but i can see quality when it's in front of my eyes. lets straighten 1 thing out right now.
frames are not being made in taiwan for their quality, it is STRICTLY for cost. you get what
you pay for. i am not saying the frames aren't engineered well, but if you look at a nude giant frame compared to a nude colnago frame there is a huge difference. shimano vs
campy is italian vs japan, japan is NOT a low cost 3rd world country. if you cannot see
the difference then ride one of those frames, it is a free market.
but i can see quality when it's in front of my eyes. lets straighten 1 thing out right now.
frames are not being made in taiwan for their quality, it is STRICTLY for cost. you get what
you pay for. i am not saying the frames aren't engineered well, but if you look at a nude giant frame compared to a nude colnago frame there is a huge difference. shimano vs
campy is italian vs japan, japan is NOT a low cost 3rd world country. if you cannot see
the difference then ride one of those frames, it is a free market.
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There are talented engineers and designers out there who gladly outsource the production of their concepts to qualified fabricators. Being a good designer does not make you a good manufacturer.peabody said:
Colnago, incidentally, will be having frames manufactured in Taiwan http://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/italia/2005/colnago.php
Tiawanese Manufacturing
Tiawanese have raised the bar on their manufacturing in the last couple of years. Their are several high american companies going to tiawan simply because they can't get the quality they are looking for here. A great example is Maverick. They are selling 5 grand bikes and after being frustrated for several year in trying to find a good quality man. in the us they finally decided to go to Tiawan based not on cost but Expertise. If you want to read a good thread go here. They even changed their name from Maverick USA to just Maverick.
Its not that the Tiawanese or the Chinese are so much better than any other country at making bikes, they are just making the investments in the tooling to make the cool stuff. It takes money to make the complex forgings and carbon these days. Not many people in the us or Italy for that matter are willing to make the investment in the bike business when the Tiawanese already have factories set up make it for you. Trek and Cannondale are about the only ones still making the investment to produce nice bikes at a reasonable cost in the US. I wonder how much longer that will last?
Tiawanese have raised the bar on their manufacturing in the last couple of years. Their are several high american companies going to tiawan simply because they can't get the quality they are looking for here. A great example is Maverick. They are selling 5 grand bikes and after being frustrated for several year in trying to find a good quality man. in the us they finally decided to go to Tiawan based not on cost but Expertise. If you want to read a good thread go here. They even changed their name from Maverick USA to just Maverick.
Its not that the Tiawanese or the Chinese are so much better than any other country at making bikes, they are just making the investments in the tooling to make the cool stuff. It takes money to make the complex forgings and carbon these days. Not many people in the us or Italy for that matter are willing to make the investment in the bike business when the Tiawanese already have factories set up make it for you. Trek and Cannondale are about the only ones still making the investment to produce nice bikes at a reasonable cost in the US. I wonder how much longer that will last?
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How many of you experts actually work in Taiwan in the bike business ??? how many of you actually work in the bike business. ???
(edit cloxxki) : the rest wasn't very nice Steve. You could have just told them they're stupid, that would have sufficed. Original wording though.
(edit cloxxki) : the rest wasn't very nice Steve. You could have just told them they're stupid, that would have sufficed. Original wording though.
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OK I will re-phrase
Too many self appointed experts who dont have first hand knowledge or experience making comments on here.
Trust me Taiwan leads the way in quality, R&D, Production techniques and on time delivery.
Price is never the first question.
I will try to refrain from making comments about peoples body parts being where the sun dont shine and would also welcome anyone who wants to visit us in Taiwan to let me know so I can show them how things are really done.
Too many self appointed experts who dont have first hand knowledge or experience making comments on here.
Trust me Taiwan leads the way in quality, R&D, Production techniques and on time delivery.
Price is never the first question.
I will try to refrain from making comments about peoples body parts being where the sun dont shine and would also welcome anyone who wants to visit us in Taiwan to let me know so I can show them how things are really done.
No it's not (made in Taiwan) . It's pretty easy to tell. All Colnago's that still use their lugged style of carbon construction are made in italy, CF4, CF5, Extreme C, C50, italy. Cristallo, President, E1 are made in Taiwan.[email protected] said:
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Ernesto says: "(W)e will source several mid-range models for 2006 in Taiwan. The rest of our production will remain Made In Italy and will always remain as Made In Italy. But we see that the the world of bicycles is changing. Thanks to our collaboration with A-Team, now we can obtain high-quality competitively priced bicycles that can bear the Colnago name." (Emphasis added).
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i can't wait til people stop uploading pictures of hybrids and typing dumb comments about how it just needs this that and the other and then its a 29er
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In the Czech Republic, they've been building excellent custom alu frames at more than fair prices. I got one. I'd totally trust a Czeck to build my frame and mold my tubular, but a complete car...bad plan.
Some engineering cultures just work better concentrating on one, relatively basic product. Like a bicycle frame. It's not rocket science, which even NASA sucks at. It's basic engineering, but at consumer good pricing.
The Japanese and Koreans make better and better cars. The hard part for them is style. When they like, we hate, and that's what makes Ferrari unique. A Ferrari design, produced and assembled in Japan, under Italian suprevision, thatjust might work, and at a lower price. But it won't be easy.
Bikes are simple, if you can't do that, you're worthless as an engineering nation, at least for consumer goods. Being price-competitive, that's harder to get a grip on.
Some engineering cultures just work better concentrating on one, relatively basic product. Like a bicycle frame. It's not rocket science, which even NASA sucks at. It's basic engineering, but at consumer good pricing.
The Japanese and Koreans make better and better cars. The hard part for them is style. When they like, we hate, and that's what makes Ferrari unique. A Ferrari design, produced and assembled in Japan, under Italian suprevision, thatjust might work, and at a lower price. But it won't be easy.
Bikes are simple, if you can't do that, you're worthless as an engineering nation, at least for consumer goods. Being price-competitive, that's harder to get a grip on.
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