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Looking for Adventure
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Has the 24 Hour race format ever changed in the last 10 years. There was a time when laps were about 25km, and there were many technical and physical obstacles to survive without hurting yourself or burning out. It was 24 Hours of Adventure and Survival, and every lap was a test. Now it is 24 Hours of Time Trialing......, speed, speed, speed. This past course was the shortest and fastest ever at 16km. Many single-track sections allowed you to maintain a speed of 15-20km/hr, making many lap times around 1 hour. Leaning the bike into corners at speed was a new common skill. As the weekend progressed, shortcut trail sections were forming which I found very surprising (although quite useless with their sharp angles). It was a fun course for sure, but with very short laps and no real sense of accomplishment of "making it", there was much more spare time during the 24 hours with nothing to do. For the first time I got bored. I got the "been there, done that" kind of feeling. It was still a fun and social weekend, but it was like a party that was going on too long.

It is clear that this race is now geared to die hard racers and solo challengers, or recreational riders with many party friends and too much spare time on their hands. For those of us that are skillful and experienced endurance riders, one notch slower than O-Cup racers because of limited spare time, we feel lost and out of place. This will probably be my last 24 Hour race.

But Chico Racing is smart and they know this. The 8 hour relay format is growing, especially for people like me. A fast paced day of riding with team buddies, followed by a dinner and party afterwards (and maybe a hot tub) sounds much better these days. And you have Sunday to rest and take care of those "other" responsibilities.

But heh, times are always changing, and you have to change with the times.
I will sure miss those quiet night laps of days gone by...
 

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Misfit Psycles
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Ricksom said:
Has the 24 Hour race format ever changed in the last 10 years. There was a time when laps were about 25km, and there were many technical and physical obstacles to survive without hurting yourself or burning out. It was 24 Hours of Adventure and Survival, and every lap was a test. Now it is 24 Hours of Time Trialing......It is clear that this race is now geared to die hard racers and solo challengers, or recreational riders with many party friends and too much spare time on their hands. For those of us that are skillful and experienced endurance riders, one notch slower than O-Cup racers because of limited spare time, we feel lost and out of place. This will probably be my last 24 Hour race.
this is an interesting take. i say that b/c the die hard racers seem upset that the course was designed around the 'middle' pack riders...with thousands of riders i guess you can't satisfy everyone.

i never minded the olde 20-25k courses either but the change has no effect on my down tyme - they just meant less laps with longer saddle tymes...actual ride tyme in 24hr races is still a product of # of laps x lap tyme. come to think of it i would spend much of those longer courses yawning during the boring 'filler' flats...glad there werent many this course.

it is a shame you won't be coming back, but i think the course shouldn't be the deciding factor for an event of this length.

and remember, both schools of thought towards 24hr races existed in southern ontario (together) once. only one survived, so maybe evolution is part of the sport.
 

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sock puppet
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interesting...

you probably defined some things better than i did over on the other thread...

but that "been there , done that" without a feeling you "made it" through reflects my feelings as well...

well said, the only difference is - i just have to go back and do it again....

you should consider it too... in a weird way, you owe it to ourselves...

Ricksom said:
Has the 24 Hour race format ever changed in the last 10 years. There was a time when laps were about 25km, and there were many technical and physical obstacles to survive without hurting yourself or burning out. It was 24 Hours of Adventure and Survival, and every lap was a test. Now it is 24 Hours of Time Trialing......, speed, speed, speed. This past course was the shortest and fastest ever at 16km. Many single-track sections allowed you to maintain a speed of 15-20km/hr, making many lap times around 1 hour. Leaning the bike into corners at speed was a new common skill. As the weekend progressed, shortcut trail sections were forming which I found very surprising (although quite useless with their sharp angles). It was a fun course for sure, but with very short laps and no real sense of accomplishment of "making it", there was much more spare time during the 24 hours with nothing to do. For the first time I got bored. I got the "been there, done that" kind of feeling. It was still a fun and social weekend, but it was like a party that was going on too long.

It is clear that this race is now geared to die hard racers and solo challengers, or recreational riders with many party friends and too much spare time on their hands. For those of us that are skillful and experienced endurance riders, one notch slower than O-Cup racers because of limited spare time, we feel lost and out of place. This will probably be my last 24 Hour race.

But Chico Racing is smart and they know this. The 8 hour relay format is growing, especially for people like me. A fast paced day of riding with team buddies, followed by a dinner and party afterwards (and maybe a hot tub) sounds much better these days. And you have Sunday to rest and take care of those "other" responsibilities.

But heh, times are always changing, and you have to change with the times.
I will sure miss those quiet night laps of days gone by...
 

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More than a little slow
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Ricksom said:
I got the "been there, done that" kind of feeling. It was still a fun and social weekend, ...
Just a thought...since you did find it fun still, maybe just try doing it on a different sized team or with a different bunch of people. Or even doing a 24 hour race at a different venue, like the WOW race up at Mansfield ( I'm pretty sure they have quiet night laps ).
Mind you, I have to agree that the 8hr stuff is really good. It's a good social event and doesn't take up nearly as much time.
I was reading somewhere about a twelve hour race that was run from dusk 'til dawn, all night laps. That would be quite an interesting event to put on here. Not sure if it would be popular though eh?
Cheers, Dave
 

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rad to the power of sick
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Ricksom said:
Has the 24 Hour race format ever changed in the last 10 years. There was a time when laps were about 25km, and there were many technical and physical obstacles to survive without hurting yourself or burning out. It was 24 Hours of Adventure and Survival, and every lap was a test. Now it is 24 Hours of Time Trialing......, speed, speed, speed. This past course was the shortest and fastest ever at 16km. Many single-track sections allowed you to maintain a speed of 15-20km/hr, making many lap times around 1 hour. Leaning the bike into corners at speed was a new common skill. As the weekend progressed, shortcut trail sections were forming which I found very surprising (although quite useless with their sharp angles). It was a fun course for sure, but with very short laps and no real sense of accomplishment of "making it", there was much more spare time during the 24 hours with nothing to do. For the first time I got bored. I got the "been there, done that" kind of feeling. It was still a fun and social weekend, but it was like a party that was going on too long.

It is clear that this race is now geared to die hard racers and solo challengers, or recreational riders with many party friends and too much spare time on their hands. For those of us that are skillful and experienced endurance riders, one notch slower than O-Cup racers because of limited spare time, we feel lost and out of place. This will probably be my last 24 Hour race.

But Chico Racing is smart and they know this. The 8 hour relay format is growing, especially for people like me. A fast paced day of riding with team buddies, followed by a dinner and party afterwards (and maybe a hot tub) sounds much better these days. And you have Sunday to rest and take care of those "other" responsibilities.

But heh, times are always changing, and you have to change with the times.
I will sure miss those quiet night laps of days gone by...
I totally agree. While Im definitely not a super competitive o-cup racer I do feel that these 24hr events are a bit 'easier' (for lack of a better word) than they originally were. While I am totally supportive of increasing citizen level involvement, I'd love to see a bit more 'hardcore endurance' events. Given that I am stronger over 24hrs than 2hrs I could see my self getting involved in something like a 150k mtb race.

Races like the Transrockies and Transalps really tickle my fancy..Obviously in Ontario a 'transescarpment' would be the epitome of lame, but events like the pine river ramble, or even longer ones that take maybe 12hrs and dont require doing laps like a rat in a wheel would be amazing. Faster riders would get past newbies early and then its a true 'push yourself to your limits' type race.

but this is ontario.. where are we gonna get 150km of singletrack.

Dreamer....nothing but a dreamer, can you put your hands on your head Oh NO!
 

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superlightracer said:
but this is ontario.. where are we gonna get 150km of singletrack.
I wonder how much we can squeeze out of the Durham trails (3 Rocks+Glen Major+Durham+Walker Woods) (I realize that some of these names overlap...) with careful planning.
 

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but....

The Hot August Nights will use an entirely different course that should challenge riders in a different way with the course going across the bridge. Everything that was directed towards me, and my bro and staff on the weekend was this was the "best 24 hour course ever".

Mountain biking isn't a cut and dry science, but if you are one level under an Ontario Cup racer you should still find our 24 course plenty challenging (if you think it is way too easy, try Elliot Lake Ocup). Sure some will find one year's course more enjoyable than another, but I get the feeling that this year's course was the best yet for most of the riders.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone 100% on every event which is why you should appreciate different aspects of different courses.

This year's course actually had more singletrack and many fast riders found out it was more technical than previous years (but how do you measure that). The fastest riders at the event all told me the course was very enjoyable and challenging at speed. The fastest lap times were actually slower than some other years.

BTW - Ricksom it sounds like you are just tired of 24 hour racing, but 25 km laps :nono: were never part of the 24 hour experience in Ontario and I can't think of anywhere where that is a standard or even used (plus if they were hardcore 25 km laps you'd be doing 2 plus hour laps!!!!!). Many companies in the US have tried giving 24 hour racers a super-gnarly experience and all of them are looking a diminishing numbers/failing/dead.

8 Hours is kind of cool, but it will never be as popular as 24 hours for the same reason 1/2 marathons aren't as popular as full marathons. Participating in a 8 hour is fun, but it isn't that cool......

Hope you guys/ladies had a good weekend, thanks for your support.

Adam from Chico, just back from Albion and yes I read what you post.
 

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Crank monkey
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Hey Adam!

I thought it was great. The course was much better (faster and more singletrack fun) than August nights last year, but the huge rain the day before might have had something to do with that last year. Everyone on my team this year thought it was a fantastic course - from guys who have done just about every 24hr race in Ontario for the last coupla years to a guy who did his first this weekend. I guess you just can't please everybody. One of the guys on the team had done a couple of 24hrs of Adrenalin races in Canmore, and this was his first Chico experience. He said it was unbelievably better than Adrenalin - better organized, better course, better everything.

A few of the guys who I don't particularly want to see at the next one are some of the "not quite O-cup" racers who cut me off just after one of the bridges, or were riding my ass down a couple of the steeps saying "Rider up - get off the brakes!" as I was struggling to keep from careening off the edge and into the trees. There weren't many, but there were a few. I wasn't going that slow, or not letting guys pass - I was hitting laps around 1:05 - not a superstar by any means, but I also wasn't walking up hills either.

Ricksom, if it's starting to bore you, try stepping it up a notch - try solo, or a tag team, or whatever. How about singlespeed? How about doing like the guy from the campsite across the road who did his laps on a trials bike with no seat? I'm sure you can find a way to challenge yourself to get back to the sense of "making it". I know I was just glad to get in a few laps on some great singletrack and have a few beers with my buddies.

Well done, again, Chico!!:thumbsup:
 

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Ricksom said:
Has the 24 Hour race format ever changed in the last 10 years. There was a time when laps were about 25km, and there were many technical and physical obstacles to survive without hurting yourself or burning out. ......

But heh, times are always changing, and you have to change with the times.
I will sure miss those quiet night laps of days gone by...
I can't say I share your point of view as this was my first 24H event. I can offer the same suggestion as I just did with osokolo - how about trying it solo? Perhaps with a smaller team? If not for the course difficulty, then at least the mindset needed. Just a thought. I hope you change your mind.

Bah, Smytty just posttd the same thing. Oh well - great minds think alike, right? :thumbsup:
 

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sock puppet
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i realize...

that "...It is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone 100% on every event which is why you should appreciate different aspects of different courses....", and this statement best describes the issue at hand...

we didnt talk about all the good things about Chico organized events, including this Summer Solstice - honestly - since you guys "took over" Ontario 24 hours racing scene, both events are way better organized and more enjoyable... there is no comparison... it is also fascinating that Summer Solstice is the biggest 24 hour race in NA... you dont achieve this by not doing the right thing... Having results of the race posted within couple of days from the race just adds to it's excellent mark already...

although I, personally, was looking for more hard core stuff to be incorporated in the course, i fully understand why it was not, and if we have to maintain Summer Solstice as the biggest in NA - so be it... hopefully Hot August Nights course will be designed in the manner that offers something to everyone... i guess it is important to design the course so that we dont feel like "rats on the wheel" like someone said... although i hated woo-wo trail backwards, i loved it because it was different... i would even agree with those that complimented this course - it was one of the fastest and best flowing (except for woo-wo backwards) courses ever, and i loved that high speed aspect of it...

i thought it had the right measure of singletrack and double track... most of us loved both descents that were taken out from the course - but we do understand why you had to do it - at least with the long one... i was puzzled to see the second one, just after crossing the road taken out as well... can you share with us why???

i think that it'd be worthwhile to try 12 hours event at one point... or at least insert another 8 hours event sometime in July...

at any rate, we are happy that Chico is continuing to support and listen to MTB community in Ontario... you guys are doing fantastic job and i am sure that Chico events will continue to be the best and the biggest in the NA...

thank you...

chicoracing said:
The Hot August Nights will use an entirely different course that should challenge riders in a different way with the course going across the bridge. Everything that was directed towards me, and my bro and staff on the weekend was this was the "best 24 hour course ever".

Mountain biking isn't a cut and dry science, but if you are one level under an Ontario Cup racer you should still find our 24 course plenty challenging (if you think it is way too easy, try Elliot Lake Ocup). Sure some will find one year's course more enjoyable than another, but I get the feeling that this year's course was the best yet for most of the riders.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone 100% on every event which is why you should appreciate different aspects of different courses.

This year's course actually had more singletrack and many fast riders found out it was more technical than previous years (but how do you measure that). The fastest riders at the event all told me the course was very enjoyable and challenging at speed. The fastest lap times were actually slower than some other years.

BTW - Ricksom it sounds like you are just tired of 24 hour racing, but 25 km laps :nono: were never part of the 24 hour experience in Ontario and I can't think of anywhere where that is a standard or even used (plus if they were hardcore 25 km laps you'd be doing 2 plus hour laps!!!!!). Many companies in the US have tried giving 24 hour racers a super-gnarly experience and all of them are looking a diminishing numbers/failing/dead.

8 Hours is kind of cool, but it will never be as popular as 24 hours for the same reason 1/2 marathons aren't as popular as full marathons. Participating in a 8 hour is fun, but it isn't that cool......

Hope you guys/ladies had a good weekend, thanks for your support.

Adam from Chico, just back from Albion and yes I read what you post.
 

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bi-winning
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Ya, for anybody looking for more of a challenge, i think a rigid bike is a great way to make any course just a little bit tougher.

Myself, i really enjoyed the event, and thought that the course was perfect for the 24h racing format.

Good job chico. thanks for giving us the opportunity to participate.
 

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Misfit Psycles
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osokolo said:
although i hated woo-wo trail backwards, i loved it because it was different... i would even agree with those that complimented this course - it was one of the fastest and best flowing (except for woo-wo backwards) courses ever, and i loved that high speed aspect of it...
ARG! i am sure the lack of flow and brick wall that uw oow presented was intentional...the climb to it was nothing compared to the hostility i felt toward some of the ackasward turns...needless to say stupid riding was in full effect.

if you are serious about a challenge for august allow me to present one. i have two teams slated for the event...i will save you a spot and loan you a bike for the entire event. NO you may NOT use your new pumpkin bike. if you leave sunday feeling unchallenged you may have the sweaty shirt off my back AND NOT pay your share of the entry.

...now arek may be around on occassion so you two will have to play nice...otherwise rj will have to be there to talk sense.
 

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sock puppet
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no gears??

thank you sir... but that is totally nuts..

the only thing that beats singlespeed is singlespeed solo...

:eek: :eek: :eek:

nogearshere said:
ARG! i am sure the lack of flow and brick wall that uw oow presented was intentional...the climb to it was nothing compared to the hostility i felt toward some of the ackasward turns...needless to say stupid riding was in full effect.

if you are serious about a challenge for august allow me to present one. i have two teams slated for the event...i will save you a spot and loan you a bike for the entire event. NO you may NOT use your new pumpkin bike. if you leave sunday feeling unchallenged you may have the sweaty shirt off my back AND NOT pay your share of the entry.

...now arek may be around on occassion so you two will have to play nice...otherwise rj will have to be there to talk sense.
 

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I am confused...

Ricksom said:
Has the 24 Hour race format ever changed in the last 10 years. There was a time when laps were about 25km, and there were many technical and physical obstacles to survive without hurting yourself or burning out. It was 24 Hours of Adventure and Survival, and every lap was a test. Now it is 24 Hours of Time Trialing......, speed, speed, speed. This past course was the shortest and fastest ever at 16km. Many single-track sections allowed you to maintain a speed of 15-20km/hr, making many lap times around 1 hour. Leaning the bike into corners at speed was a new common skill. As the weekend progressed, shortcut trail sections were forming which I found very surprising (although quite useless with their sharp angles). It was a fun course for sure, but with very short laps and no real sense of accomplishment of "making it", there was much more spare time during the 24 hours with nothing to do. For the first time I got bored. I got the "been there, done that" kind of feeling. It was still a fun and social weekend, but it was like a party that was going on too long.

It is clear that this race is now geared to die hard racers and solo challengers, or recreational riders with many party friends and too much spare time on their hands. For those of us that are skillful and experienced endurance riders, one notch slower than O-Cup racers because of limited spare time, we feel lost and out of place. This will probably be my last 24 Hour race.

But Chico Racing is smart and they know this. The 8 hour relay format is growing, especially for people like me. A fast paced day of riding with team buddies, followed by a dinner and party afterwards (and maybe a hot tub) sounds much better these days. And you have Sunday to rest and take care of those "other" responsibilities.

But heh, times are always changing, and you have to change with the times.
I will sure miss those quiet night laps of days gone by...
Being that I have only seen a couple of comments like yours pertaining to the challenge of this course be it length or technical demands, I can't figure out how it can be boring??? Maybe you aren't pushing yourself hard enough. I didn't find the course technically demanding for me, but I love to go fast, especially in singletrack. Hammering that stuff at your personal limit just seems to keep the hunger to achieve more present during all of my rides.

As others have suggested, if you weren't challenged by your participation in the race this weekend, perhaps you should have a look at the many options to change that. Singlespeed, Tag team, or solo. If none of those work, you may want to consider focusing on O-Cup races, Trans Rockies, or other...I can't imagine that a change in category or one of these facets of racing wouldn't challenge you again...

Neil
 

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sock puppet
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i think you are...

mtbmeister said:
Being that I have only seen a couple of comments like yours pertaining to the challenge of this course be it length or technical demands, I can't figure out how it can be boring??? Maybe you aren't pushing yourself hard enough. I didn't find the course technically demanding for me, but I love to go fast, especially in singletrack. Hammering that stuff at your personal limit just seems to keep the hunger to achieve more present during all of my rides.

As others have suggested, if you weren't challenged by your participation in the race this weekend, perhaps you should have a look at the many options to change that. Singlespeed, Tag team, or solo. If none of those work, you may want to consider focusing on O-Cup races, Trans Rockies, or other...I can't imagine that a change in category or one of these facets of racing wouldn't challenge you again...

Neil
misunderstanding ricksom...

it is not about "challenge" per se... yes, you can always challenge yourself to go faster, even on the 300m circle course, on some parking lot, but that is not his point...

the way i understand his observation is that recent 24 hour events have become very similar - a 16-18km loop with familiar configuration and hammer... there is no that "tough adventure" spice and exclusivity feeling that only the toughest can make it... there are no surprises on the course nor need to walk a section for 95% of the field...

mind you - this weekends layout was perfect for me and my ability to hammer (205 pounds, half of it in legs :D :D ) hence my time was only 8 mins slower than the best time on the hill - usually it is 10+ mins diference... From that angle, i've got nothing to be unhappy about... And maybe it is just a matter of accepting this structure of 24 hour event and expecting just that... in that case no one would have unrealistic expectations of the event...

there are few events in ontario where you can go an challenge yourself - for a change and come back to Albion Hills to a known and expected format of the competition... nothing wrong with that...

it just may be that what ricksom wants this event to be, will never be again - for the benefit of growing the sport of mountain biking...

so i kinda understand both ricksom and chico... if chico sees it's survival in this format of the competition - i am all for it because if chico is not successful - we all lose...
 

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some kind of hero...
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chicoracing said:
The Hot August Nights will use an entirely different course that should challenge riders in a different way with the course going across the bridge. Everything that was directed towards me, and my bro and staff on the weekend was this was the "best 24 hour course ever".

Mountain biking isn't a cut and dry science, clip...
My team has been doing endurance events since 1998 with the adrenalin series and have experienced different venues, weather conditions and personal challenges. After 9 - 24 hour races we are still loving it and will be back for more. The Chico events are fantastic, and I'm not going to say any one was better than another because I think these events are what you make of them. I have met lots of wonderful people through these events and learned much about people's limitations, and how to overcome them. There aren't many personal experiences that stack up to what you go through at a 24 hour event. I'm grateful that a promoter with the savy of Chico Racing continues with this kind of event.

Lets share things about the positive side of this kind of riding, pride in accomplishment, encouragement of others and sacrificing personal goals for the benefit of others... I feel great about the event, as does the rest of my team, and I hope all of you find what you want and continue to support 24 hour racing...

Cheers
:cool:
 

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rad to the power of sick
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osokolo said:
misunderstanding ricksom...

it is not about "challenge" per se... yes, you can always challenge yourself to go faster, even on the 300m circle course, on some parking lot, but that is not his point...

the way i understand his observation is that recent 24 hour events have become very similar - a 16-18km loop with familiar configuration and hammer... there is no that "tough adventure" spice and exclusivity feeling that only the toughest can make it... there are no surprises on the course nor need to walk a section for 95% of the field...
Precisely.

Im sure as time goes by we'll see more demand for things like 150k races

nogearshere said:
if you are serious about a challenge for august allow me to present one. i have two teams slated for the event...i will save you a spot and loan you a bike for the entire event. NO you may NOT use your new pumpkin bike. if you leave sunday feeling unchallenged you may have the sweaty shirt off my back AND NOT pay your share of the entry.
Are you a wuss? You should join my team if you want a challenge. We're doing square wheels and no chain. :thumbsup: But on another note, some guys from my shop are doing a total bmx team... that oughtta be good.

And yea, I didnt attend the 24 hr race, but good job chicoracing, you keep the mtb wheels turning in Ontario. All you have to do now is incorporate live DJ's at your events to keep the tuneskis rolling. lol
 

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nogearshere: if you are serious about a challenge for august allow me to present one. i have two teams slated for the event...i will save you a spot and loan you a bike for the entire event.

Too bad I am out of town for Aug 19-20. I would seriously consider such an offer. And the good news is that I have a torture contraption (errr, I mean rigid SS bike) of my own. :D

Osokolo, you would kick ass on an SS. First you are a big/heavy guy, which is an advantage in SS and with 54-55 minute laps at the Solstice, you are obviously no slouch. If I can manage SSing, you definitely can. Even geared, I doubt I could come in under 1 hour on that course (I did do a training run of 1:05 on Saturday on the rigid SS).
 
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