2022 Unit with suspension

mack_turtle said:

I'm thinking about replacing my Karate Monkey with something a bit longer. I would want to put my 120mm fork and 29er tires on it to make a soet of downcountry SS build. So many of the bikes in this category are designed around a 140mm+ fork, so something like a Honzo would not suit me.
That leads me to the Unit. I can't find anything on Kona's site about putting a squish fork on it. Is that safe? With it ruin the handling somehow? There's no way for me to test that.

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I've seen plenty of Units for sale with suspension forks, though I think most stick to 100mm, maybe that is changing with the newer geometry? It's kind of funny how many Units you see for sale that are priced higher than they cost new because someone added a suspension fork.

When I bought my 2017 Unit, used, I also bought a 100mm fork but I never have tried it out.

I know there was one member that rode a suspended Unit and seemed to love it. Can't remember his username and I haven't seen him around in awhile, he was very active and lived, I think, in the Caribbean.

The 22 Unit looks VERY different from previous years. I am aware of thr capabilities of the older Units, so I'd like to know if the newest one can handle a longer fork. I emailed Kona a few ears ago to ask the same question and I think they said 100 was the limit but the '22 Unit looks a lot beefier.

related: are the geometries for the aluminum Honzo, the DL, and the steel one different?
Honzo DL: 140mm fork, 551 a-c, 66mm BB drop, 310mm BB height
Honzo (alu): 120mm fork, 530 a-c, 60mm BB drop, 320mm BB height
Honzo ST (frame only): 140mm fork, 551 a-c, 62.5mm BB drop, 310mm BB height

I figured the DL and the regular aluminum model are the same frame with different components, but the BB is lower on the bike with the longer fork, with is counter-intuitive.

Kona confirmed for me that 100mm would be the maximum safe fork to put on a '22 Unit, so that's a no-go for me.

The current Honzo is built around a 140mm fork, so putting 120 on it would leave the BB even lower than it already is. it looks like the non-DL Honzo is an older version that would built around a 120mm fork, but I don't want aluminum and I need sliding dropouts.

I hope this info is useful to someone, but no Kona for me.

Yeah, I would have been surprised if you had decided to get either of those frames. I have a 2016 Unit and although the latest version is longer, it is still built around a 470mm fork. I also have a 2019 Honzo and since I ride my KM most of the time, when I do take the Honzo out, there is always an adjustment period getting used to that low BB.

Have you considered talking to the guy at Hardtail Party? He likes HT singlespeeds, prefers 120-130mm forks and gets the opportunity to try a lot of different bikes.

BrianU said:

Yeah, I would have been surprised if you had decided to get either of those frames. I have a 2016 Unit and although the latest version is longer, it is still built around a 470mm fork. I also have a 2019 Honzo and since I ride my KM most of the time, when I do take the Honzo out, there is always an adjustment period getting used to that low BB.

Have you considered talking to the guy at Hardtail Party? He likes HT singlespeeds, prefers 120-130mm forks and gets the opportunity to try a lot of different bikes.

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yes, I've conversed with Steve and watched nearly all of his videos. as helpful as they are, I can't feel what he's feeling through a video. I need to try it myself before I buy, but his videos help me narrow down some ideas. I think his experience is different from mine and we have different needs from how a bike handles, so it's only somewhat useful to me. now the trick is finding a way to borrow a bike that I might want to buy. I've never seen a hardtail at a demo.

I realized that I could bump my fork to 140mm for less than $50, but I don't think I want to. I'll keep looking.

Save some coin and buy an old Honzo, the steel ones are bulletproof and have everything you want / need.

Anyone know what the first year the steel Honzo had boost spacing? I just bought a rather expensive rear wheel with a 148mm axle and I don't want to try to shoehorn it into a frame that was made for 142mm. some people do that, but I think it's unwise.

If I can find the Honzo that was designed around a 120mm fork as well, that would be helpful. I've tried and I don't have a use for a fork longer than that.

mack_turtle said:

Anyone know what the first year the steel Honzo had boost spacing? I just bought a rather expensive rear wheel with a 148mm axle and I don't want to try to shoehorn it into a frame that was made for 142mm. some people do that, but I think it's unwise.

If I can find the Honzo that was designed around a 120mm fork as well, that would be helpful. I've tried and I don't have a use for a fork longer than that.

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2017 was the first year for boost. Up until this year,
the stock fork on the steel Honzo was 120mm. I have a 2019 frame I built up and got a deal on a Fox Rhythm 120mm fork. Travel wise, 120mm works for me, but a friend of mine runs a 140mm fork on his and really likes it. He said along with just more travel and slackening the front end, it raises the bb, which is an issue for me. Since your fork is currently set up for 120mm, you can try it and then change it to 140mm relatively cheap if you change your mind. My fork is the version that I found out later, was built for 100mm to 120mm, so I am stuck until I can buy another fork.

mack_turtle said:

If I can find the Honzo that was designed around a 120mm fork as well, that would be helpful. I've tried and I don't have a use for a fork longer than that.

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It's a great bike, I absolutely love mine, my only complaint is that the BB is pretty low at the stock height. With a 120mm fork I would plan on 170mm cranks, or plan on a 130mm air shaft.

I'm running mine with a 140mm fork and a -1 headset. My main goal was to raise the BB and slacken it. The reason I didn't go with a -1.5 or -2 degree headset was because the BB would have gone back down to the stock height.

I don't think I want a longer fork for various reasons, but I can't really test that without committing. I definitely don't want a low BB because of my terrain. I might be able to adapt my riding style to a lower BB and that "in the bike" feel, but it's unfamiliar to me and I have no way to find out. short travel and a high BB is what I am used to. I've purchased a few bikes over the years based on other riders telling me that it was the best bike they've ever ridden, only to discover how subjective and terrain-dependent that all is.

I've got a 2018 ST with a 1.5 degree angleset that I run at 130/140 that I've used for everything from smooth XC trails to DH tracks. I've never had an issue with the BB being too low even w/ 175mm cranks. There's no rear suspension so really it's quite pedal friendly. I would go to a -2 angleset if I did it again.

WhatsUpcountry said:

I've got a 2018 ST with a 1.5 degree angleset that I run at 130/140 that I've used for everything from smooth XC trails to DH tracks. I've never had an issue with the BB being too low even w/ 175mm cranks. There's no rear suspension so really it's quite pedal friendly. I would go to a -2 angleset if I did it again.

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I'm curious about your local trails. I've never owned a FS bike and most of my trails are just a series of chunky rock gardens. Pedal strikes are worth consideration.

mack_turtle said:

I'm curious about your local trails. I've never owned a FS bike and most of my trails are just a series of chunky rock gardens. Pedal strikes are worth consideration.

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Local stuff is mostly XC stuff with roots and not many rocks, but even on trips to rockier places with more vertical I've not had an issue. I have it set up single speed most the time and that might help avoid pedal strikes too since I'm never really sitting and spinning through anything that I could smack with a pedal. if your trails require that you pedal through chunky rock gardens you could have a bad time, but I wouldn't expect your surly to be too much different. take all this with a grain of salt since I'm sure we have different terrain, riding styles and goals for our bike rides.
On a related note, I don't think there's a downside to shorter cranks either, I'm 6'1" and just got some 165s on my squishy bike and I have no complaints.

mack_turtle said:

I'm curious about your local trails. I've never owned a FS bike and most of my trails are just a series of chunky rock gardens. Pedal strikes are worth consideration.

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Yeah. One of the chunkiest places I ride is Ellicottville. Miles of slow speed rock gardens and tech. It's a different style of riding than most places.

Interestingly I've found that possibly the best tool for that job is a 29+ SS hardtail. I've tried many bikes there over the years. Hardtails, SS's, short and mid-travel full suspension bikes, Rigid 29+, hardtail 29+, etc. My SS Krampus with a 120mm fork, dropper, and meaty 29x3.0 tires get through that stuff better than anything else.

The low BB on my Trail bike was definitely a hindrance, not ideal. The high BB of the Krampus (even though it's got a lot of BB drop) is awesome.

I'm sure you're not interested in building new wheels too but if you ever get the chance to ride 29+, do it! Super fun.

mack_turtle said:

I'm thinking about replacing my Karate Monkey with something a bit longer. I would want to put my 120mm fork and 29er tires on it to make a sort of downcountry SS build. So many of the bikes in this category are designed around a 140mm+ fork, so something like a Honzo would not suit me. (or would it?)

That leads me to the Unit. I can't find anything on Kona's site about putting a squish fork on it. Is that safe? With it ruin the handling somehow? There's no way for me to test that.

(Previous versions of the unit were capable of a shorter fork but the 2022 unit looks a lot beefier and the geometry has been updated.)
View attachment 1965424

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Late to the party, but I saw this the other day. Looks pretty cool.

Bikes We Ride – Joel’s Super Unit

On the 22 Unit, does it matter if a 100mm suspension fork is 44 or 51mm offset? I wonder what Kona recommends?

rolondo said:

On the 22 Unit, does it matter if a 100mm suspension fork is 44 or 51mm offset? I wonder what Kona recommends?

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You'll be jacking up the front end slightly which slacks it out a hair. I'd want the 51mm offset to keep the steering quicker or closer to stock. Go with the 44 if you want more stability while descending instead. Either way your bike isn't going to explode.

cjbiker said:

Late to the party, but I saw this the other day. Looks pretty cool.

Bikes We Ride – Joel’s Super Unit

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It's not clear what version of that fork he has, but if it's more than 100mm of travel, he just voided his warranty. At least, that's what Kona told me would happen. Interesting experiment though. I should try changing stuff like a bit like that to see what happens.