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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently have a 2021 stumpjumper evo and I am entertaining the idea of getting an enduro. For those that have ridden both, do you have some pros/cons or impressions that stood out on the enduro? How is the maintenance with the increased number of linkages? Any long term issues that have popped up? What terrain can the enduro handle that the stumpy evo cannot and what terrain is it not suited for? I hear it pedals well, but then read it doesn't climb well. Seems a bit counterintuitive.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Short answer, Enduro is a plow bike and the Evo is a play bike. Their speed is very similar if you care about that, but they feel very, very different.

In my experience the Enduro is the faster climber even though it doesn't make any sense to people. The Evo is fun on every type of ride, the Enduro needs to right terrain to come alive. It will make most trails feel mundane if you don't have properly fast and rough trails to ride it on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good info. I have some local trails that are pretty chunky and they are a blast on the evo but i can’t help but wonder how they would feel with a bit more travel and speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Short answer, Enduro is a plow bike and the Evo is a play bike. Their speed is very similar if you care about that, but they feel very, very different.

In my experience the Enduro is the faster climber even though it doesn't make any sense to people. The Evo is fun on every type of ride, the Enduro needs to right terrain to come alive. It will make most trails feel mundane if you don't have properly fast and rough trails to ride it on.
Check out Salespunk's post in the 2020 Enduro thread, he has done a good write up comparing them :)
I tried finding it but the thread is so long I can’t seem to find it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have found his thread and will copy and paste below. It’s too good not to share and it was a hidden gem in that thread.

X post from the 2021 Evo thread, but thought potential Enduro buyers might find it interesting as well.

Buckle up because this is long, but I think the detail is important.

Today I did back to back rides on the Evo and Enduro. The loop I did was 50% singletrack/50% pavement climb to a steep/fast/chunky DH. The descent is one that I have done over 100 times and representative of the trails I ride consistently. First up was the Evo. My build currently is an Expert with the stock XO1 RD/shifter, Roval carbon rims, X2 rear shock along with some other upgrades;

Untitled by Sales Punk, on Flickr

I use this ride consistently for suspension setup since it has a good mix of technical singletrack climbing, pavement, steep DH and then a traverse that mimics rolling singletrack in some ways. I did not pay a lot of attention to the singletrack portion of the climb because I am 50/50 on cleaning it right now. Looking at the pavement climb it was about average from a time perspective, but I my perceived effort was high since I am out of shape right now. For context I am running a power meter on the Evo and did 254 watts against an FTP of 250 so I wasn't crushing it, but it was a solid effort. Time was 3:58 my first time up and 4:19 my second time.

Now it was time for the fun part, going down. The descent can be broken into 3 comparisons. Section 1 starts out with a steep chute with a lot of chunk and some natural gaps followed by some nasty high speed corners. Next section is just solid chunk with a few minor drops, if you can even call them that, but it is a beating. The final comparison it both sections combined which requires consistency since there are so many places that mistakes can be made. A lot of the corners are off camber and they are all loose with baby heads on top of a bunch of dust. For section one it was 48 seconds, one of my fastest times this year. Section two 48 seconds which was my fastest time in two years. The combined run was 1:34 which was also my fastest time in two years.

To make sure it wasn't a fluke I ran another lap. One thing to note is that I have been changing my cockpit setup. The two changes are bar height (moving them much higher) and width (going wider than 740 that I have run forever). For the second run I moved my bars down 5 mm because I was concerned I had gone too extreme. Net result, I was slower in both section and overall. For comparison I was 1 second slower in the first section (within the margin of error), 4 seconds slower in the second section (definitely slower), and 3 seconds slower overall (there is a middle section that is not part of either section). More importantly, I could feel more pressure on my hands and did not feel as centered on the bike. Got home and immediately moved the 5 mm spacer back under the stem. As a side note I also punctured on the second run, but it did not affect the times. It was at the end of the run and I run Rimpact so didn't slow down. More on this later...

Below are the consolidated numbers with the corresponding segment names for anyone local;

Double Peak Sprint Finish (pavement climb) 3:57
Rollercoaster :48
Sorry! :48
Candyland (combination of Roller and Sorry) 1:34

Now it was time to go home since my rear tire was spewing sealant all over the rear triangle. Got it to seal well enough to hold 15ish PSI for the ride back to the car. 20 minutes after I got home I get a call from one of my riding buddies asking if I wanted to meet up and ride there again. I was already thinking about going back out on the Enduro so this was just the kick I needed. Kiss my wife (she is amazing) and load up the truck again.

Hop on the bike and head back up the hill. First off the Enduro feels really good. Pedaling is so solid, but it is also close to 35 lbs with my setup. Right now it is AXS, Fox 38, Ohlins TTX, Santa Cruz Reserve rims, etc. It is as bling a build as you will see with nothing left to upgrade. Pic of the build

Untitled by Sales Punk, on Flickr

Tire setup is identical between the two bikes except for one important factor. When I changed the rear tire I realized that there was no insert in the rear tire of the Evo. Whoops! Good news is that the Evo would have even more of an advantage on the climbs since it has less rotating weight. Back to the Enduro, it climbs really well for a 170 bike. Once to the top I double check everything since I haven't ridden this bike in a while and drop in. First thing I noticed was the length. It is definitely a bigger bike and I can feel the longer front end. For me, I like the added space, so it is not a bad thing. Second is that the Enduro is not any more plush than the Evo. I have had this sensation of harshness through three rear shocks and two forks. I believe this is from the linkage being over torqued from the factory which messed up the bearings. Different story for another time, but it is not ultra plush right now. What you definitely feel is stability. The bike just goes where it is pointed, no stress, no questions about what the bike is going to do.

Got to the truck, uploaded the ride and somewhat surprisingly, the Enduro was even quicker going down. I made the same changes to my setup with higher and wider bars and it obviously is working for me. First section 46 seconds, second section 47 seconds, full run 1:31. While a second or two may not seem like a lot, it points to how close these bikes really have become. Right now the trails are in the worst condition of the year, completely blown out dust bowls with sniper rocks everywhere. My other fast times are usually in the winter once we get some rain to increase traction. Overall really impressed with both bikes. The Enduro is exactly what you would expect, more stable. The Evo is also exactly what you would expect, much easier to move around on the trail.

For those that are bothering to read all of this, you may have noticed that I didn't talk about the pavement climb. Really it was no contest, a 35 lb bike with a coil rear shock vs a 30 lb air sprung smaller travel bike with a lighter wheelset (remember no insert on the Evo). I was also riding the Enduro after already doing the climb twice on the Evo and since I haven't been doing much analog riding the legs were feeling it. Although it sounds like I am making excuses for the Enduro, I'm not because it was faster going uphill and not by a small amount. First time up the climb on the Evo I set a time of 3:57. Didn't feel bad, but didn't feel great either. Second time up on the Evo was a 4:17 and my legs were feeling it. Third time on the Enduro 3:38. Now this is far from scientific and I am not saying it is faster than the Evo, etc. What I am saying with absolute confidence is that there is no climbing penalty for being on the Enduro instead of the Evo. The 8 bar link setup does a better job of separating pedal forces from suspension movement. It is noticeable even in a driveway ride and I think it contributes quite a bit to put it on level footing with bikes that are lighter and shorter travel. So the Enduro is a heavier bike, had more rotating mass, I was on tired legs and it was quicker.

Comparison times for the Enduro;

Double Peak Sprint Finish 3:38
Rollercoaster 46 seconds
Sorry! 47 seconds
Candyland 1:31

Both bikes together Evo/Enduro;

Double Peak Sprint Finish 3:57 / 3:38
Rollercoaster 48 / 46 seconds
Sorry! 48 / 47 seconds
Candyland 1:34 / 1:31

On the flip side, the Evo held its own against a longer travel bike. It was on terrain that should have given the Enduro a significant advantage, trails that are about as steep and rough as you will see. Bottom line, this decision is going to come down to personal preference, riding style and terrain. The Evo is definitely better in rolling terrain where the Enduro just feels dull. Technical climbs, pavement climbs, etc are a toss up. I have done a lot of this on the Enduro and it is exceptional even on tight switchbacks and big exposed rock moves. The long stays and stability really make a difference when you are about to puke going uphill. It is not an XC race bike and isn't going to win any speed contests going uphill, but you would be just fine riding with your friends on 140 bikes. I also wouldn't hesitate to take the Evo to Whistler. It punches way above its travel class on the descents. Either bike is exceptional, you just need to decide the feel you are looking for and then actually find one of these machines in stock someplace.

So that is what I can report so far. Happy to answer any questions and I hope this data helps.
 

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I've ridden both. I'd say the review above is accurate but I don't think my Enduro climbs better than the Evo. The suspension feel on the back of the Evo was the biggest difference. It just seems to stay a bit higher in the travel.
 

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I had the Enduro. I have the SJ Evo now. Short version is I can't think of any scenario, other than maybe lift assisted bike parks or racing a disgustingly high speed & rough EWS where I would pick the Enduro over the Stumpy.

The Enduro also needed a lot of love. Living in the UK and riding in the mud, the whole rear linkage loved to eat bearings & I spent way too long chasing creaks. The Stumpy by comparison, has been ridden all winter & has had absolutely zero maintenance needed.
 

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Salespunk's review was great, but I can't help but think a lot of those time differences came down to the shock differences. Or conditioning and warm up.

The climbing time difference in particular isn't very realistic imo if the same power was put down.

I own the Evo, and have ridden the E29. Both are fantastic bikes but I certainly don't need anything more than my Evo personally.
 

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Salespunk's review was great, but I can't help but think a lot of those time differences came down to the shock differences. Or conditioning and warm up.

The climbing time difference in particular isn't very realistic imo if the same power was put down.

I own the Evo, and have ridden the E29. Both are fantastic bikes but I certainly don't need anything more than my Evo personally.
This is not directed specifically @Suns_PSD, but I get questions on this a lot.

Climbing times are consistent across climbs whether paved, dirt, singletrack, technical, etc. for me. I knew how controversial this would be so I did regression testing across several different climbs that I do quite a bit. Most of them are private so I can't share the statistics, but as an example;

0.6 mile climbing segment, average grade 6.4%, max grade 20.4%, very technical steep to start with which then transitions into more flowing trail, PR 7:29 on the Enduro/7:42 fastest time on the Evo

0.9 mile climbing segment, average grade 5.4%, max grade 12%, more traditional climb starts out as a fire road and then mid way transition to rolling singletrack; PR 10:50 Enduro/11:13 fastest time on the Evo.

These are just my results, but all of the times quoted are within 30 days of each other so fitness should not be hugely differentiated. These results are repeated across 95%+ of the climbs I do regularly and I am not cherry picking data points. The 8 bar link is a very different feel from the traditional 4 bar link when climbing with a more positive feel on the Enduro, while also maintaining a more supple feel in chatter.

I am not saying that everyone should run out and buy and Enduro. The bike feels dead on the trails that most people ride and will make a lot of stuff feel boring. Instead I was saying that people should not be scared off of the Enduro because they have to climb to the top. I do think an 8 bar link version of the Evo would be a category killer, but even as is the Evo is an amazing bike. Just so much fun to throw around on the trail and does everything really, really well.

The Enduro OTH is a weapon on the right terrain. If you have the descents for it, there is not much more fun to be had on a bike. It is like Porsche GT3, amazing on a track or deserted mountain road, but sucks commuting back and forth to work on a daily basis.

In the end, know who you are and what you ride. If you are honest about that, then you will end up with an amazing bike with either choice.
 

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I'm Enduro curious as well but live for big back country rides. I'd be curious to see those climbing differentiations over a 30 mi 7K day.

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I went with an Enduro and a 21 non evo stumpy..great combo! I actually converted over from the new Evil's and have always been a long time Evil owner but Specialized has really killed it with these two. I have not been on an Evo so I can not compare but maybe you should sell the Evo and go that route. I figure do an Evo if you have a 1 bike stable or do the others if you can.
 

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I owned a 2020 Enduro briefly (~40 miles) before selling the frame to buy the EVO. The Enduro is a tank and I couldn't believe how heavy the frame was at even with the DPX2 on it (8.5lb S3). I am also in the minority in thinking that it pedaled like crap- climbing, out of the saddle, etc (total bob factory). I was probably running more sag to eliminated the harshness I was feeling with the DPX2 in high speed square edge hit scenarios. I would have upgraded the shock but, as mentioned, this is a plow bike and that's not my style at all. Line changes in the middle of a tech section became much more difficult. The bike did corner very well in uneven terrain and actually jumped really well too. Finally I took the Enduro to some fast flow/jump trails and I knew instantly the bike was going up for sale. It just took so much energy to pump the bike, manual, etc. It was a really fun trail and my HD4 would have dominated by a long shot. I like to keep and ride just one bike and the Enduro was not it, even though I don't mind some extra weight and and favor descending and cornering over everything.

I knew straight away that the EVO was a much more fun bike in 95% of the terrain I normally encounter. I find this bike to be an absolute beast climbing which was a surprise. I have a 30t oval and that made a surprising improvement over the 32t oval I originally put on (the 32t oval was on the Enduro as well). On the fast, flowy, bermed, pumper stuff, this bike will leave the Enduro in the dust by a good margin. I initially set up the EVO with a 170mm Fox 36 (push coil) and the cascade link. The cornering in loose terrain was not very good and I was washing the front way too often. Front tire is a Minion DHF 2.5 and I have been running them forever. I dropped the fork travel to 160mm and the bike really came to life. Quick and nimble and the front tire was biting a lot better. I have yet to ride some really rough trails because the snow is still melting, but I think the EVO will be great. I also tried this bike in mullet and really liked it but thought it was just a touch slower overall. Worth pointing out how fragile the EVO frame is. I believe the structural integrity of the down tube is compromised by the swat. My theory is that the stiffened area around the swat prevents the tube from flexing under impact to absorb energy, and cracks. There are already way too many stories of the frame breaking in this area under small, normal impacts and specialized is not supporting these failures (a design flaw IMO), even when rocks are striking the rock guard and breaking the downtube underneath. No, this will not happen on all carbon bikes. It is not "luck of the draw." If I could go back in time, I would not have purchased this frame because of this failure and lack of support by specialized. It is a very good bike, and blows the Ripmo V2 out of the water (closest comparable bike I have demoed).
 

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Pretty much the first non-gushing review I've ever heard of the E29.

If you weren't willing to buy the Evo any longer, what would you purchase right now? If I broke my Evo I'd get a Titan or possibly a GG.

Given the intended use of the Evo, I do wish it had, ya know 1/3# of rubber running down the entire underside of the downtube to protect from random rock strikes and what not.
I'm darn WW but for this application it would be weight well spent.



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Pretty much the first non-gushing review I've ever heard of the E29.

If you weren't willing to buy the Evo any longer, what would you purchase right now? If I broke my Evo I'd get a Titan or possibly a GG.

Given the intended use of the Evo, I do wish it had, ya know 1/3# of rubber running down the entire underside of the downtube to protect from random rock strikes and what not.
I'm darn WW but for this application it would be weight well spent.



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I would probably go with the Canfield Lithium and EXT Storia frameset for $2600. I had a 2016 canfield balance that was a lot of fun and I really like short chainstays. Or I would just keep the HD4. Such a rad bike with the 170mm coil 36 up front (push ACS3). The bike is quick and corners so hard, in fact it's the best cornering bike I've ever had. Verdict is still out out on the EVO, so I'm still holding the HD4 for now.
 

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If you like the HD4 or similar then you would hate the Enduro with the heat of a thousand suns. Neither is right or wrong, but they are very different ends of the spectrum. The Enduro is a very specific use case where the HD4 is a generalist. I had multiple Mojo HD's and HD3's and they were awesome bikes. Ultimately though, they were not the style of bike I enjoy. Took me a while to figure out what I really wanted from a bike. Even now I still discover things about what I like and don't like.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said you need to know yourself and the type of riding you like.
 

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They are different bikes for sure but not opposite ends, that's an exaggeration. The HD3 is a trail bike and the HD4 is full on enduro race bike, especially with the 170 fork. The HD4 feels lower and slacker than the enduro, but I never put the enduro in low. I knew what I was getting into, but I do think I was mislead by the people praising the enduro's pedaling and climbing ability. If the descending was game changer, I probably would have kept it, but it wasn't and I will admit that is partly based on my active riding style. Obviously you see guys like Kelley killing it on both bikes, and he will pick a bike depending on the course which obviously makes sense. By that token, I have lived in Socal and I could see how fire road climbs and straight lining rock gardens would be perfect for the enduro.
 

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I'm Enduro curious as well but live for big back country rides. I'd be curious to see those climbing differentiations over a 30 mi 7K day.

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A 7K climbing day would be a bit much for me even on my Epic EVO but I've taken my Enduro on plenty of 20 mile 3K days. I do a lot of the same rides on both bikes and sometimes feel more tired after riding the Epic from getting comparatively beat up on the descents.
 

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I do a lot of the same rides on both bikes and sometimes feel more tired after riding the Epic from getting comparatively beat up on the descents.
This is something that may seem counterintuitive but I myself discovered about three or four seasons back now. Enduro bikes that pedal well and have a comfortable seated pedalling position do exceedingly well for big back country rides. Not only was I finishing up bigger rides way less worked than I typically would on smaller bikes but I was able to ride harder deeper into bigger rides which simply equates to more fun.

It's not just the descents though. They take less effort or precise body english to negotiate all kinds of stuff and that adds up over the course of a big ride. I'm finding the longer wheelbase and chainstay on the Evo to accentuate that even further. Puts me in a much more natural body position to attack stuff. Whereas on the smaller bikes for front wheel lift, what have you, I felt I had to be more precise whereas with the length it's just more natural in the movements.

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