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Formerly of Kent
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Yea that's definitely not true. If you look at the down country bikes in Pinkbike's XC field test that accompany the Epic Evo (Revel Ranger, Yeti SB115, Transition Spur, Cannondale Scalpel SE1), the top tubes are lower than tob tube on the Epic Evo and some of those bikes have riser bars. Also, the Evo had the same amount of spacer's as my wife's Stumpjumper. It's really the bar + the top tube that's the issue.

It may be simple to you, but based on the responses in this thread and multiple different LBS employees who were shocked at how easily the top tube on my bike cracked, it's not that obvious. Going forward, I'm always going to be aware of this issue on any future bike I buy, but I never saw it coming. As @Zerort said above, it shouldn't matter how experienced you are, a bike shouldn't have such a weak point that it fails when tipping over onto the ground. Yes, maybe it scratches the paint, but making the bike unrideable is pretty wild. And obviously Specialized knows about this issue because they used to put a rubber stopper on the down tube of their Epic race bikes to prevent damage in a crash from handle bar spin.
You’re ignoring my point entirely.

On every single one of those bikes, if I set them up like I would by own, either the bar or controls will hit the TT.


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Don't agree that it has to be this way, even with a low rider/flat bar. If the frame top tube can't be lowered during the design phase, then equip the bike with shifters + dropper remote which don't extend much below the handlebars. Problem solved. There are a number of dropper remotes which do exactly that (see photo). GripShift solves the shifter problem as well.

View attachment 1929066 View attachment 1929069
If either of those came on my epic I would have to replace them with what it is currently spec’ed with.
 

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But it's a simple function of geometry.

A bike that runs a low riser/flat bar + low/negative rise stem + few/no spacers will have this "problem".

Turns out, bikes that are made for going fast on varied terrain tend to have those attributes. Buying another bike in this genre isn't going to solve it; that's the way it is.
That's your preference to run a setup that hits your top tube, but in this post, there's nothing that indicates that you meant that. The last sentence implies that all bikes in this category come set up with handle bar controls that will hit the top tube ("Buying another bike in this genre isn't going to solve it; that's the way it is"). That simply is not true (look at the Transition Spur). If you want to run them that way, that's fine. My point is that a bike for $4,400 should not be ruined by falling over because a solution like Knock Block was not installed to prevent such an issue that should be obvious to engineers. If a rider wants to slam the bars and have a negative rise stem, so be it, but don't sell a bike with such a glaring issue to the average consumer.
 

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View attachment 1929082

stock 150mm X Fusion dropper 521g

View attachment 1929083 175mm KS Lev Carbon 440g

definitely not a 200g difference.
Both lighter than the 34.9 that came on my Stumpjumper. What a boat anchor. I'm still torn between the dropper and my Ritchey WCS carbon post that keeps staring at me. Unfortunately, I've learned to use and appreciate the dropper.

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Formerly of Kent
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That's your preference to run a setup that hits your top tube, but in this post, there's nothing that indicates that you meant that. The last sentence implies that all bikes in this category come set up with handle bar controls that will hit the top tube ("Buying another bike in this genre isn't going to solve it; that's the way it is"). That simply is not true (look at the Transition Spur). If you want to run them that way, that's fine. My point is that a bike for $4,400 should not be ruined by falling over because a solution like Knock Block was not installed to prevent such an issue that should be obvious to engineers. If a rider wants to slam the bars and have a negative rise stem, so be it, but don't sell a bike with such a glaring issue to the average consumer.
When I test rode a Spur (higher stack), I had to use an even lower stem/bar combo.

The problem still existed.

If anything, it’s the worse on the Spur in my size, because the HT length and stack require that much more of a drastic approach to correct.


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The last sentence implies that all bikes in this category come set up with handle bar controls that will hit the top tube ("Buying another bike in this genre isn't going to solve it; that's the way it is"). That simply is not true (look at the Transition Spur). If you want to run them that way, that's fine. My point is that a bike for $4,400 should not be ruined by falling over because a solution like Knock Block was not installed to prevent such an issue that should be obvious to engineers. If a rider wants to slam the bars and have a negative rise stem, so be it, but don't sell a bike with such a glaring issue to the average consumer.
I've had several Epics, Cambers, Stumpies etc, and none of these have had the issue. I've previously run the levers pointing down at an extreme angle, still no issue running the original bars/stem/spacers.
I've kept my '17/18 Camber running with Stumpy mods, and there's no way the controls can hit the top tube. Zero spacers, and 60mm stem flipped, controls at 90 deg with a Renthal fatbar with zero rise.

I think people have a point - there should be a warning, maybe some temp protection, providing that this happens when the bike is set up from stock parts (stem flipped, zero spacers, controls at normal angles). As soon as you start modding, this becomes your own responsibility, of course. If Spesh offered some knock-block type fix that could be retrofitted, I'd run and buy it asap, just for peace of mind.

That said - for my use, running a 25mm riser bar @780mm, two spacers and stem pointing down is absolutely spot on, and the controls go clear, no prob.
Absolutely thrilled with the Evo.
 

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Toying with the idea of getting a 130mm Pike for the Evo as a back-up & extra rowdy-mode option. I can't see this affecting the bike much, but it will rise the front and BB slightly, which is good news for me anyway.
Anyone tried this?
 

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Bob,
I'm in SE Michigan too. What I found was that the rebound needs to be set almost as fast as it can go - maybe minus 1 or 2 clicks, otherwise the rear packs up and feels harsh - especially over our terrain.

Try setting the rebound faster and go ride it again. It won't be plush, but it won't pack up either and you won't get that harsh feeling. Oh, and I'm at 25% sag too.

One other thing was that I found I needed to then run the front end faster because it was out of balance, but that was an easy fix and I am enjoying the bike. It's not in the same league as my Orange Evo, but it's 4 pounds lighter. HA
Thanks Zerort, I'll try that.
Funny, when I was playing with fork rebound, it felt like it was also slowing compression. Probably my imagination.

There is another...annoyance.
When the fork is set between 25 and 30% sag, it isn't possible for my to even get close to full travel.
I can slam the bars with as much force as possible, just shy of buckling my arms, and I get 97mm travel.

The fork is advertised (and marked) as 120mm. I've measured the maximum travel of 110mm. Even pushing against the bottom out bumper, there is no way I could get more than a few mm more travel.

So... I'm being cheated out of 13-23mm travel. Maybe this seems pretty, but this is a $600-700 fork and it is falling far short of claims. I purchased the bike because I wanted a bit more travel.
I'm considering contacting Rockshox with a warranty claim.
Anyone have any luck dealing with SRAM? Looks like it is almost impossible to contact them directly.

Bob
 

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Bob,
I'm in SE Michigan too. What I found was that the rebound needs to be set almost as fast as it can go - maybe minus 1 or 2 clicks, otherwise the rear packs up and feels harsh - especially over our terrain.

Try setting the rebound faster and go ride it again. It won't be plush, but it won't pack up either and you won't get that harsh feeling. Oh, and I'm at 25% sag too.

One other thing was that I found I needed to then run the front end faster because it was out of balance, but that was an easy fix and I am enjoying the bike. It's not in the same league as my Orange Evo, but it's 4 pounds lighter. HA
I'm starting to think that most of the Epic EVOs exist in SE Michigan.

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I'm starting to think that most of the Epic EVOs exist in SE Michigan.

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Ha, yeah, I've noticed quite a few.
 

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Thanks Zerort, I'll try that.
Funny, when I was playing with fork rebound, it felt like it was also slowing compression. Probably my imagination.

There is another...annoyance.
When the fork is set between 25 and 30% sag, it isn't possible for my to even get close to full travel.
I can slam the bars with as much force as possible, just shy of buckling my arms, and I get 97mm travel.

The fork is advertised (and marked) as 120mm. I've measured the maximum travel of 110mm. Even pushing against the bottom out bumper, there is no way I could get more than a few mm more travel.

So... I'm being cheated out of 13-23mm travel. Maybe this seems pretty, but this is a $600-700 fork and it is falling far short of claims. I purchased the bike because I wanted a bit more travel.
I'm considering contacting Rockshox with a warranty claim.
Anyone have any luck dealing with SRAM? Looks like it is almost impossible to contact them directly.

Bob
Well, my SID Ultimate 120 blew up and I had to send it in for service. It took about a month but it went through Jenson where I purchased it.

It also does not always lock out when I use the remote.

I don't think I've have ever used all the travel on our trails here so my guess is these forks are pretty much junk, but it is what it is. I'll stick to Fox going forward.
 

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Well, my SID Ultimate 120 blew up and I had to send it in for service. It took about a month but it went through Jenson where I purchased it.

It also does not always lock out when I use the remote.

I don't think I've have ever used all the travel on our trails here so my guess is these forks are pretty much junk, but it is what it is. I'll stick to Fox going forward.
I don't doubt you guys are having fork issues, but I set the suspension up last summer when I bought the bike, have ridden a lot on Michigan trails since then are am very happy with suspension performance.
 

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RE: Handlebar hitting the top tube...

Is this dependent on size? Wondering if top tube slope varies enough between sizes to make this a non issue for some?
 
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