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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So a couple weeks ago I posted here asking about stiction/problems like the fork resting with almost 20% sag with this BRAND NEW fork. All kinds of things were recommended. Some commented that RS are notorious for being shipped from the factory low on leg oil so be sure to check that first. So I ended up servicing the lowers and replacing the dust wiper/seals with low friction pieces from Push. When I broke it down, plenty of oil ran out so that didn't seem to be an issue. The foam rings were dry as a bone though I suspect this is going to be the case 99 out of 100 times when you pull the lowers off even when the fork is functioning properly. Nevertheless, I put everything back together...problem still there. No better, no worse.

So like I should have done in the first place lol, I took it to the local SRAM dealer. Rolled the bike inside. Grabbed their bike mechanic. Showed him. And he's immediately like yep, it's messed up....from the factory. He says more than likely it is the Motion Control damper malfunctioning. He said it seems to be a common issue. He goes on to say that one of the other bike mechanics there has a brand new Kona Process with a 160mm Lyrik on it that is doing the same thing. Real nice SRAM. That's great! Not.

Ok...my question is WHAT THE F is going on with SRAM/RS??? How is this possible in this day and age of technology and quality assurance?? Not to mention that with this being such a common issue, how is this not fixed once and for all?!? Maybe a bad run here and there or a technical issue possibly with an older design. But come on, this is an old design and anything that is problematic with it should have been addressed and fixed YEARS ago. So now I get to spend the rest of the summer riding my brand new bike on a defective RS fork. He said sure, bring this thing in when you are done riding and we'll send'er off and they will warranty, no prob. Yeah, alot of good that does me right now in the middle of riding season.

Bottom line, RS should be ashamed of such piss poor quality. It is unacceptable and that is being generous. With any luck, a SRAM employee will see this and shed some light on the subject. This is wrong on so many levels.

Anyone else have a similar experience?
 

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If its sucking in to the travel its more likely an air spring problem than damper, but why not send it off now? The time it is away shouldn't be that long and worth it for the knowledge your fork is working as it should

It sucks that your fork isn't 100% but it's not a common problem at all, you are only ever going to hear from the complainers on MTBR. In general Rockshox probably has the best reliability of all the brands, and they will back up their product in my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If its sucking in to the travel its more likely an air spring problem than damper, but why not send it off now? The time it is away shouldn't be that long and worth it for the knowledge your fork is working as it should

It sucks that your fork isn't 100% but it's not a common problem at all, you are only ever going to hear from the complainers on MTBR. In general Rockshox probably has the best reliability of all the brands, and they will back up their product in my experience.
Yes, even totally unloaded, the fork draws back up 10-20% of the travel. Air spring/damper....idk. Either way, it's not right. The reason I say I don't want to send it off now is bc it's prime riding season. It's a 3ish week turn time and I would rather just ride now and fix it later when the season starts winding down. But you are right. I could send it in now and have the peace of mind sooner...rather than later. In fact, that is starting to sound like the better option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bushing tolerance on the new revelation is terrible. So tight, everyone we see through the workshop has really tight bushes until we size them.
Another interesting comment. I guess you own a bike shop...?

All this seems odd coming from a company that is 'supposed' to have uncompromising quality standards.
 

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My wife's 2018 Revelation was sucking into the travel and she needed the damper replaced. After getting the wrong damper from RS (they always send the wrong part the first time), then getting the right part and the grease cleaned out of the air spring, it works but it's not a fork I would ever buy aftermarket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My wife's 2018 Revelation was sucking into the travel and she needed the damper replaced. After getting the wrong damper from RS (they always send the wrong part the first time), then getting the right part and the grease cleaned out of the air spring, it works but it's not a fork I would ever buy aftermarket.
Yeah the more I read the more it appears this is not an uncommon problem. My bike came spec'd with the RS Rev but I too would opt for another brand if I was buying aftermarket. Since you say they sent the wrong parts first, I assume you repaired locally? I'm sending this unit back to SRAM. If it doesn't come back working 100% correctly and as 'buttery smooth' as buttery smooth gets, I'll sell and call it a lesson learned. So your problem with it sucking back up into the travel was on the damper side and not the air spring side. Do you know what exactly the problem was with the damper?
 

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Seems like the two big names have this problem as of recent years and completely expect the customer to take it lying down and leave it be.

I have a 2018 Lyrik RC with Charger2 and MRP Ramp Control that I purchased from a buddy because everyone and all the magazines rave how the Lyrik is the end-all be-all of long travel 29er forks. Here I am, weeks after getting it, done the same as the OP and gone through the lower leg service and installed PUSH wipers and it is still -MEH- at best. I won't be holding on to it, I will be waiting for the reviews on the Manitou Mezzer to come out and then grab one probably the beginning of next year.

I believe that it has become one of those situations that SRAM/RS and FOX have enough advertising money to throw at pro riders and magazines that they can bolster their image wherever they need. Sucks but just what we have to deal with. Caveat Emptor
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Seems like the two big names have this problem as of recent years and completely expect the customer to take it lying down and leave it be.

I have a 2018 Lyrik RC with Charger2 and MRP Ramp Control that I purchased from a buddy because everyone and all the magazines rave how the Lyrik is the end-all be-all of long travel 29er forks. Here I am, weeks after getting it, done the same as the OP and gone through the lower leg service and installed PUSH wipers and it is still -MEH- at best. I won't be holding on to it, I will be waiting for the reviews on the Manitou Mezzer to come out and then grab one probably the beginning of next year.

I believe that it has become one of those situations that SRAM/RS and FOX have enough advertising money to throw at pro riders and magazines that they can bolster their image wherever they need. Sucks but just what we have to deal with. Caveat Emptor
More interesting comments. Sadly, this is probably true. Now if we're calling a spade a spade....these are not show stopping problems. I'm not giving them a 'free' out, I'm just saying that the fork still performs (mostly) as it should... albeit with a problem. They know this and hence why they expect the consumer to just take it lying down like you say.
 

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I have a 2018 Revelation fork that had the 'not enough oil' issue. SRAM techs at Outerbike took a look at it and commented "Wow, that's pretty dry" and fixed it. It still has a little sticktion when it's been sitting for a couple or three days. Other than that, it's been fine.

I will say, though, comparing the newer SRAM/RS fork products to new ones, I question quality. I have an old XC bike with a 2003 Rockshox 110mm U-turn Duke on it. To this day, it is still "buttery smooth" with zero sticktion, even after it's been sitting for a month or more. On another XC bike, I have an older 130mm Judy. Same thing. zero sticktoin, smooth as silk. Both of these forks a re noticeably smoother that the '18 Revelation, or any Pike, Fox 34, etc., I've messed with.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rockshox forks. Always have, mainly from a DIY maintenance perspective. And the quality concerns on newer products I have extend to Fox as well. My thought is, forks in the past just weren't as mass produced as they are today, and suffer from it. Forks today are much more common. Maybe it's a mass produced quality, versus limited production quality, control issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have a 2018 Revelation fork that had the 'not enough oil' issue. SRAM techs at Outerbike took a look at it and commented "Wow, that's pretty dry" and fixed it. It still has a little sticktion when it's been sitting for a couple or three days. Other than that, it's been fine.

I will say, though, comparing the newer SRAM/RS fork products to new ones, I question quality. I have an old XC bike with a 2003 Rockshox 110mm U-turn Duke on it. To this day, it is still "buttery smooth" with zero sticktion, even after it's been sitting for a month or more. On another XC bike, I have an older 130mm Judy. Same thing. zero sticktoin, smooth as silk. Both of these forks a re noticeably smoother that the '18 Revelation, or any Pike, Fox 34, etc., I've messed with.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rockshox forks. Always have, mainly from a DIY maintenance perspective. And the quality concerns on newer products I have extend to Fox as well. My thought is, forks in the past just weren't as mass produced as they are today, and suffer from it. Forks today are much more common. Maybe it's a mass produced quality, versus limited production quality, control issue.
I read your post where you mentioned SRAM tech looking at your Rev fork at Outerbike. I think you live in NWA..same as me...is this correct?

But yes, your comments are logical I think. What used to be a niche market with only a couple players has largely turned into a massive market with many players and everyone who owns even an entry level bike gets a 'decent' fork. The flip side is that even with the new market for these manufacturers, the technology to mass produce yet maintain the same quality is there. Sad they just don't seem to care that much. If they did, this wouldn't be an issue.
 

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I agree, this is the similar to something my LBS owner said this weekend when I picked up my bike from them. Rear brake on a 2 month old Code R brakeset has been slowly losing modulation and power. Last ride before taking in the lever basically was hitting the grip before I would get any bite and when it did it was either off or on. Something I have never experienced with Shimano's (though they have their own issues). Took into them to inspect and bleed if necessary and come to find out that the system was in bad shape and needed to be bled.

To me this is unacceptable for a new set of brakes that have just over 300 miles on them and pads are showing barely any wear. During the conversation we were talking about how I had done some research and found that this seems to be a common issue with new SRAM brakes, especially the Guide series, and has trickled into the lower end Code R as well. His comment of "We have cars/motorcycles that can literally go thousands of miles without the system needing to be bled. Multiple pad changes as well for both cars and motorcycles, yet these companies for some reason cannot figure this out on bikes? What gives? Are the cases, systems and properties really that different between these items? I would think not but I'm not an engineer."

That really said something, that even a bike shop knows of the common issues with one brand needing to be CONSTANTLY bled, something his head mechanic said to me later, to keep the performance good. Yet go out to any major dirt rag and you will see them give glowing reviews of the Code series especially the RSC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree, this is the similar to something my LBS owner said this weekend when I picked up my bike from them. Rear brake on a 2 month old Code R brakeset has been slowly losing modulation and power. Last ride before taking in the lever basically was hitting the grip before I would get any bite and when it did it was either off or on. Something I have never experienced with Shimano's (though they have their own issues). Took into them to inspect and bleed if necessary and come to find out that the system was in bad shape and needed to be bled.

To me this is unacceptable for a new set of brakes that have just over 300 miles on them and pads are showing barely any wear. During the conversation we were talking about how I had done some research and found that this seems to be a common issue with new SRAM brakes, especially the Guide series, and has trickled into the lower end Code R as well. His comment of "We have cars/motorcycles that can literally go thousands of miles without the system needing to be bled. Multiple pad changes as well for both cars and motorcycles, yet these companies for some reason cannot figure this out on bikes? What gives? Are the cases, systems and properties really that different between these items? I would think not but I'm not an engineer."

That really said something, that even a bike shop knows of the common issues with one brand needing to be CONSTANTLY bled, something his head mechanic said to me later, to keep the performance good. Yet go out to any major dirt rag and you will see them give glowing reviews of the Code series especially the RSC.
Lol...wow. So auto manufacturers have figured out a way where you literally never bleed brakes on a traditional hydraulic activated braking system over the LIFETIME of an automobile yet a simple design on a mountain bike is a problematic area?? That's nice lol. The same can be said for the suspension like we are discussing here.

Food for thought: if you think a mountain bike works its suspension, consider what a typical car/truck's suspension system is subjected to... hurdles/obstacles/bumps/pot holes and general abuse. And this is on a daily basis...more than your typical mountain bike sees in a lifetime. Yet front forks don't function properly...even new. And the generally recommended service interval for your car's struts is 50,000 miles. That's laughable at best that bike manufactures can't figure this out.
 

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Lol...wow. So auto manufacturers have figured out a way where you literally never bleed brakes on a traditional hydraulic activated braking system over the LIFETIME of an automobile yet a simple design on a mountain bike is a problematic area?? That's nice lol. The same can be said for the suspension like we are discussing here.
You have a brake system that's trying to be small, light and cheap. It's not always going to work correctly. They are also in a market where they are trying to change look/feature of the product every couple of years.

On cars the brake system is fairly basic over all and they use heavy calipers and steel lines. They also sell millions of these systems. How many code R brakes were sold in a 3 year stretch? If you want to look at something lower volume like a motorcycle then compare their prices on a rear caliper to something like a mountain bike brake system. A rear caliper on a full size motorcycle will run you around $300 to purchase. That's just the caliper, not any pads, lines or master cylinder. That's more than most front and rear mountain bike brake systems which have a lot more parts and complexity.
 

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Average cost of Shimano SLX brake system is $150+ per side for caliper, hose and lever (sometimes include pads), take a step up to XT or XTR and you are adding more in the $200+ range. So while a "decent" caliper for moto is $300ish/ea you are looking at what would be a comparable price investment for a mtb (taking full cost of the moto vs. the full cost of the mtb).

Again, this is a system you would thing would have the ability at some point for someone to point out "hey, we have had these types of systems working in this 'genre' for how many years?? Why are we having so many problems here?" But that is the analyst in me that asks those questions that aren't liked by most (especially the PMs that are managing the projects).

Anyways, suffice it to say that RS and FOX seem to have some issues going on that they may or may not be paying attention to. Both partially are under their own "too big for their own britches" influence where they put it on the "we'll get to that later" pile and continue to push new items item (e.g. the minimal changes to the Charger 2.1 damper). It is instances like this that are my main reasoning behind going with smaller companies where I can, because many times (not always) they are focused on keeping the customer happy as that is a major impact to their revenue stream.
 

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Yeah my front Code RSC caliper had one side of stuck pistons from the factory. Brand new Fox X2 wouldn't equalize like it's supposed (have to stand on the pedals and bounce to get air into the negative chamber). New ethirteen tire was super porous and would go flat in about 12hrs. That's just in the last 2 months. I agree, that mtb part quality needs to improve. I shouldn't feel like it's a crap shoot every time I order a part.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You have a brake system that's trying to be small, light and cheap. It's not always going to work correctly. They are also in a market where they are trying to change look/feature of the product every couple of years.

On cars the brake system is fairly basic over all and they use heavy calipers and steel lines. They also sell millions of these systems. How many code R brakes were sold in a 3 year stretch? If you want to look at something lower volume like a motorcycle then compare their prices on a rear caliper to something like a mountain bike brake system. A rear caliper on a full size motorcycle will run you around $300 to purchase. That's just the caliper, not any pads, lines or master cylinder. That's more than most front and rear mountain bike brake systems which have a lot more parts and complexity.
We can agree to disagree here. Based on your comments, the same could be said about auto manufacturers using the brake scenario. Brakes have evolved to the level of reliability because of innovation, not in spite of it. IMHO your line of thinking is basically nothing more than giving the OEM's a reason to continue the practice of manufacturing sub par components - regardless of price point - and at the expense of the consumer/end user. You may find some allies here on the boards and elsewhere but I would venture that most people would disagree with your logic if for no other reasoning than it encourages such practices. I for one think this is working backwards. We need better components not worse components.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Anyways, suffice it to say that RS and FOX seem to have some issues going on that they may or may not be paying attention to. Both partially are under their own "too big for their own britches" influence where they put it on the "we'll get to that later" pile and continue to push new items item (e.g. the minimal changes to the Charger 2.1 damper). It is instances like this that are my main reasoning behind going with smaller companies where I can, because many times (not always) they are focused on keeping the customer happy as that is a major impact to their revenue stream.
This statement alone speaks volumes about what we are talking about here. Their 'big me, little you' attitude has the average guy like me and you in a headlock right now. This is simply a lesson that bike and bike component manufactures haven't had the time to learn. But it's coming. There is no doubt about that. We are simply caught in a whirlwind of explosion in this industry. OEM's can sit back and line their wallets, no problem. They simply do not need any true customer service right now. We, as consumers, have no choice but to purchase what they bring to the table, regardless of the level of quality. There are no shortages of examples of this exact mentality that forced real changes in multiple industries over the last 100 years. Rest assured, it is coming to this industry as well. The only question mark is when. Maybe today. Might be tomorrow. Next week. Next year. 10 years from now. Who knows. But it's coming. It is a natural progression in a fledgling market. And that is exactly what mountain biking is.
 

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I have also seen tight bushings in rockshox this season but I don’t consider them to be the only ones like that. I would recommended every new fork gets the bushings burnished IMO

I can’t name a single brand that produces every fork with perfect frictionless performance out of the box. Maybe a 2005 marzocchi 888?😂😂

We are talking about a price point fork here and making a plastic bushing concentric and sized to less than 0.01mm

Make it on the slippery side of tolerance and you will have 1% of customers crying on the internet that their forks have play

Make it on the “no play” side and 1% will cry that they have stiction

Most good tuners will resize bushings for not much money and your fork will feel amazing. Small price to pay in my opinion
 
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