[dp400]

I'm new to Fox forks - last bike had a Pike 150 mm.
I have a 2108 36 rc2 160mm on my 2018 Spec Enduro.
I have about 8 rides on the bike and most of these have been trying to setup my suspension.

I weigh ~ 165 geared up.

I've tried several combinations of LS, HS, Reb, Volume spacers and PSI settings.
My main issue is in high speed, rough downhills. I can hardly hold onto the bars the suspension is just hammering me. It should be so much calmer and smoother descending these tails at speed!

On the Stumpy running the Pike it's much more controllable / calm.
I started with 2 - 10 mm volume spacers and now I have zero spacers and the fork still seems to ramp up too hard on the last 40 - 50 mm of the stroke. I think I've only gotten about 130 mm of travel out of the fork to date. It feels like it has 4 volume spacers in it.

I read a lot of the 2016 harsh Fox 36 thread but there is so many issues and solutions discussed that I'm a bit confused if the 2018 has the same issues?

One thing I've read is the negative air pressure and a zip tie " solution ". This does sound like it may be the issue I've been fighting of not getting full travel and the fork ramping really hard the second half of the travel. Thoughts??

There seems to be a few companies that have bolt on help for different problems. Do any of them have a long term solution to a negative air build up - IF THATS WHAT I HAVE?

Anyone experience this problem?

Anyone know whats going on with this fork?

I would love to see what you guys are running for a setup as well.


My current setup is
Ride weight 165 lbs

60 psi
~ 30 mm sag
0 volume spacers
8 out on Reb.
HS Comp. from wide open to closed down 5 clicks
LS Comp. from open to 5 closed


Thanks
Dan:thumbsup:

 

[Junersun]

The 2018 36 still has the same issues with the air spring top cap as previous years from what I've gathered. The tolerance it's made from isn't the greatest creating a lot of friction.

If you read that thread then you know about 92 piston head. You can't use that but something similar that's already around is the vorsprung luftkappe. I have that on my hardtail and it's made a great improvement to my pike.

I also just went through to change the oil out of the damper and found that it was overfilled really squirting out oil even with the damper rod fully extended. That along with the negative air chamber mod, im looking forward to a new fork. Good luck with yours.


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[Little_twin]

I'm new to Fox forks - last bike had a Pike 150 mm.
I have a 2108 36 rc2 160mm on my 2018 Spec Enduro.
I have about 8 rides on the bike and most of these have been trying to setup my suspension.

I weigh ~ 165 geared up.

I've tried several combinations of LS, HS, Reb, Volume spacers and PSI settings.
My main issue is in high speed, rough downhills. I can hardly hold onto the bars the suspension is just hammering me. It should be so much calmer and smoother descending these tails at speed!

On the Stumpy running the Pike it's much more controllable / calm.
I started with 2 - 10 mm volume spacers and now I have zero spacers and the fork still seems to ramp up too hard on the last 40 - 50 mm of the stroke. I think I've only gotten about 130 mm of travel out of the fork to date. It feels like it has 4 volume spacers in it.

I read a lot of the 2016 harsh Fox 36 thread but there is so many issues and solutions discussed that I'm a bit confused if the 2018 has the same issues?

One thing I've read is the negative air pressure and a zip tie " solution ". This does sound like it may be the issue I've been fighting of not getting full travel and the fork ramping really hard the second half of the travel. Thoughts??

There seems to be a few companies that have bolt on help for different problems. Do any of them have a long term solution to a negative air build up - IF THATS WHAT I HAVE?

Anyone experience this problem?

Anyone know whats going on with this fork?

I would love to see what you guys are running for a setup as well.

My current setup is
Ride weight 165 lbs

160 psi
~ 30 mm sag
0 volume spacers
8 out on Reb.
HS Comp. from wide open to closed down 5 clicks
LS Comp. from open to 5 closed

Thanks
Dan:thumbsup:

160 psi? I don't ride fox, but most forks have similar sized air chambers and that seems excessive, especially to only get 30% sag.

Make sure your rebound is fast enough. Slow rebound can lead to the issue you describe. Have you ridden it with the hsc and lsc backed all the way out.

The most enlightening thing I was ever told was by my suspension tuner when I was racing motorcycles, "the spring holds you in the ideal position, the damping keeps you there by controlling movement".

 

[dp400]

My bad. Thats 60 psi not 160.

Yes I have ridden them both open and still can only get maybe 130 - 140 mm of travel.

I have tried different Reb settings to make sure it wasn't packing. I've ridden and raced off road motorcycles for 40 years and have spent a lot of time setting up my bikes so I have a lot of experience turning knobs but somethings not right with how hard the fork ramps up.

It fells like it has way to much oil in the fork and it's hydro locking.

 

[Rick Draper]

I also just went through to change the oil out of the damper and found that it was overfilled really squirting out oil even with the damper rod fully extended. That along with the negative air chamber mod, im looking forward to a new fork. Good luck with yours.

The damper will have become overfilled through use. It will have ingested some lower leg oil.

 

[gpgalanis]

Did you try to lower your psi?

I am 215 (98 kg) and in my 2017 36 I run 75 psi, 2 orange tokens, 30% sag in the attack position, 10 clicks or rebound from full close and the fork is quite good. Supple enough, good mid stroke support and uses most of the travel in big hits.

 

[Junersun]

The damper will have become overfilled through use. It will have ingested some lower leg oil.

That totally makes sense!

Now I'm even more excited. I was a little worried this was not going to do much since the oil looked more or less still in good shape.

Rick, I was thinking of using Maxima 3 wt which is a tad less viscous than fox 5wt (from what I've gathered). Do you see any problem doing that? I am on the heavier side of the spectrum but I'm only about 6 clicks in. My thought process was to use that maxima so I could essentially have less HSR for a quicker return.

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[Little_twin]

My bad. Thats 60 psi not 160.

Yes I have ridden them both open and still can only get maybe 130 - 140 mm of travel.

I have tried different Reb settings to make sure it wasn't packing. I've ridden and raced off road motorcycles for 40 years and have spent a lot of time setting up my bikes so I have a lot of experience turning knobs but somethings not right with how hard the fork ramps up.

It fells like it has way to much oil in the fork and it's hydro locking.

Have you cycled it without any air? Does it achieve full travel then? If the oil level in the cartridge is too high it won't cycle through its full travel with or without air.

 

[dp400]

Have you cycled it without any air? Does it achieve full travel then? If the oil level in the cartridge is too high it won't cycle through its full travel with or without air.

I'm going to check that today.
I think when I let out the air to pull the tokens from the fork that it only went down about 130 - 140 mm not the full 160?
Is there two areas that hold oil separately in this fork?

 

[dp400]

The damper will have become overfilled through use. It will have ingested some lower leg oil.

Rick are you saying over time that this transfer of oil happens on these forks?

Does my situation sound like an air or oil issue to you?

Dan

 

[Little_twin]

I'm going to check that today.
I think when I let out the air to pull the tokens from the fork that it only went down about 130 - 140 mm not the full 160?
Is there two areas that hold oil separately in this fork?

Yes, and it should have no to minimal air inside the damper. The oil in the case of a sealed damper acts a solid object and passes from one side of the piston and back as the damper is cycled. Air added to this equation creates cavitation and foaming of the oil which will result in a loss of damping effectiveness.

The first thing you need to do is air it down and cycle it to see if you are getting full travel.

See full travel: air it to half of your final pressure and check again. If at any point while it has low pressure in the chamber it stops cyclin full travel investigate the air spring

Not seeing full travel without air: remove damper and ensure that it is cycling it's full travel. If the damper doesn't cycle it's full stroke investigate damper.

Divide and conquer my friend. You'll get your answer.

 

[dp400]

Awesome thanks for the info!!:thumbsup:
I'm dying to get this bike dialed in and just go ride and not dick with the setup!
On the flip side I have a Ohlins shock that leaks air like a kid after eating a bean burrito!!
One end is to stiff and the other blows through the travel.
Can't wait to get her dialed!

 

[Junersun]

Spring keeps you up, damper keeps you there.

Unfortunately with air springs you also deal with stiction and I think that's your problem.

Unless your damper is overfilled it's hard for me to think the lower leg oil is already seeping affecting your damper seeing how it's 2018 model.

Dropping the lowers, removing the air Schrader assembly and cycling it to see how tough that is will be much easier to feel than draining the damper. I'd do that first.


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[Cary]

The 2018 36 still has the same issues with the air spring top cap as previous years from what I've gathered. The tolerance it's made from isn't the greatest creating a lot of friction.

If you read that thread then you know about 92 piston head. You can't use that but something similar that's already around is the vorsprung luftkappe. I have that on my hardtail and it's made a great improvement to my pike.

I also just went through to change the oil out of the damper and found that it was overfilled really squirting out oil even with the damper rod fully extended. That along with the negative air chamber mod, im looking forward to a new fork. Good luck with yours.

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Quit calling it a topcap, it is not. It is the air piston. The topcap holds the volume spacers.

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[Junersun]

Quit calling it a topcap, it is not. It is the air piston. The topcap holds the volume spacers.

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What Cary said... grab some coffee bud, you sound like you're having a rough day.

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[Rick Draper]

Rick, I was thinking of using Maxima 3 wt which is a tad less viscous than fox 5wt (from what I've gathered). Do you see any problem doing that? I am on the heavier side of the spectrum but I'm only about 6 clicks in. My thought process was to use that maxima so I could essentially have less HSR for a quicker return.

What year is your fork?

 

[dp400]

Just tried a few things.
First I tried the zip tie and I did not hear any air released.
Then I released all of the air and I was able to get the full 160 mm of travel.
I did air it up to ~ 30psi but I could only get about 145 mm of travel when pushing down on the bars. I'm not very heavy so maybe that had something to do with it?
I guess I will just try a low psi and see how that goes on my next ride. I'll play with my LS and HS compression to see if I can get closer to the full travel.
I liike the bike to sit up in it's stoke so am I correct in thinking that dialing in a bit more HS will keep the front end up and not be divey?

 

[Junersun]

What year is your fork?

2016

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[crimedog]

Just tried a few things.
First I tried the zip tie and I did not hear any air released.
Then I released all of the air and I was able to get the full 160 mm of travel.
I did air it up to ~ 30psi but I could only get about 145 mm of travel when pushing down on the bars. I'm not very heavy so maybe that had something to do with it?
I guess I will just try a low psi and see how that goes on my next ride. I'll play with my LS and HS compression to see if I can get closer to the full travel.
I liike the bike to sit up in it's stoke so am I correct in thinking that dialing in a bit more HS will keep the front end up and not be divey?

Sounds like your fork is functioning after all. You want LSC to prevent dive, HSC is for sudden/sharp impacts. Sounds like you should dial your HSC all the way open and if it's still too harsh get it retuned.

 

[Cary]

Just tried a few things.
First I tried the zip tie and I did not hear any air released.
Then I released all of the air and I was able to get the full 160 mm of travel.
I did air it up to ~ 30psi but I could only get about 145 mm of travel when pushing down on the bars. I'm not very heavy so maybe that had something to do with it?
I guess I will just try a low psi and see how that goes on my next ride. I'll play with my LS and HS compression to see if I can get closer to the full travel.
I liike the bike to sit up in it's stoke so am I correct in thinking that dialing in a bit more HS will keep the front end up and not be divey?

Hmm, wonder if your lowers are overfilled or oil has migrated to the air chamber. When you compressed with no air did you feel it ramp up a lot at the end of the stroke? Did it move smoothly, or did it stick a little before moving?

It is beyond me that Fox can have so many ongoing QC issues on a $1000 fork.

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