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I've been going to Interbike a few years now and am still surprised how much I enjoy it. I was only able to make the first day of the Outdoor demo this year due to a planned trip for Whistler in another week, so not quite as many bikes as usual. Yes, it was hot. Yes, the trails were loose and dry. Yes, there were still hoards of seething humanity. Yes, I got up at 3:00 am, traveled 3.5 hours to get there and then after riding bikes for 8 hours traveled back home that night so I could work Tuesday. But there's just something that really makes me happy about being able to ride a bunch of new bikes on fun trails.
Me enjoying the heck out of one tough day.
Before I get into the reviews I always like to get my disclaimers out there so no one gets too excited about my lack of in-depth details and professional perspective. I'm just a guy who likes to ride mountain bikes...a lot. Over the years I've ridden a bunch of different bikes and spent a lot of time riding a bunch of different trails. I'm not particularly observant to every little nuance and gadget on a new bike.... but I think I know what makes for a good mountain bike and I think I'm reasonably good at getting a sense for how a bike performs as a whole and what its strengths and weaknesses are. But remember, these are just first impressions from limited test rides so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't work for or get bro deals from any bike company, which is not to say I don't have any biases, just that my biases are hard won through personal experience, friends, and too much time on the boards.
A couple of main themes from this year's demo:
-650B! Seems like everyone's got one..... except the big companies. That's 27.5" wheels for those who might not know. Momma Bear half-way between the two current standard wheel sizes..
-I'm not sure if it's the cost, the timing, or the hassle involved, but I was surprised at how many companies aren't doing the Outdoor Demo. Last year there were 4-5 of my favorites missing. This year there were 8 or 10 that were AWOL including Banshee, Transition, Norco, Trek, Cannondale, Ventana, Canfield Bros., Knolly, Niner, GT, and Ibis.
-And, as always, thin tubes in Bootleg rocks equals pinch flats. We got two.
- Wide bars. All the bikes we rode were sportin' the long horns. I didn't notice this immediately until someone mentioned it because both my bikes already have wide bars and I love them.
-Did I mention it was hot?
I met up with fellow mtbr member and co-reviewer craigstr Monday morning at 8:30 only to find a pretty long line snaking out of the registration tent. They decided not to mail out badges this year but used e-mail confirmations with bar codes to access and print your badge on site (after you signed the waiver). Sounds easy enough but they had a bit of a computer glitch at first which backed things up, but once moving it went smoothly enough.
I think we stood in this line about 30 minutes.
Badges in hand, I made a beeline for the Turner tent way at the back corner of the demo area to check out the new Burner 650B while Craig headed for Giant to pick up the new Trance 29er.
Turner Burner 650B:
I have been interested in the 650B thing for a while now and know that Dave Turner has been as well. Now with the major fork and tire manufacturers finally getting on board I was excited to see Turner's new creation, the Burner 650 B. I like the name, but by resurrecting the old Burner moniker he may be inviting some confusion as to what this bike is if you knew the old Burner, but it is clearly in the trail/all-mountain category. Think of it as a 650B 5 Spot and you'll have a clear picture. It has 140mm of dw-linked rear wheel travel and well-sorted numbers all around. The frame is true to the Turner design philosophy with mostly straight tubes, smooth welds, and purpose built looks. The component spec on this prototype were all high end, light, carbon, and swanky. It felt pretty light.
After chatting with Dave a bit (do you ever just chat with Dave "a bit"?) about bikes, 650B, and the Downieville DH while he set up the bike (yes, DT, Owner and CEO of Turner bikes personally set up the bike) I was ready for my first demo of the day. Pedaling it away from the Turner tent I was impressed how efficient it felt which shouldn't surprise me because I own a dw link 5 Spot....but it seemed to roll easier than my Spot. Maybe it was the Enve 27.5" carbon hoops.
We decided to climb Girl Scout since it wasn't too hot yet and the trail would be free of downhill traffic. Girl Scout is a fairly smooth, gradual, rolling climb with some rocky chunk mixed in to keep you on your toes and test your tech skills. The Burner rolled nicely and felt efficient while climbing with no noticeable bob. We felt it could have been more active when encountering small to medium sized square edges during the climb though. Instead of easily absorbing these rocks and rolling over smoothly, the rear wheel would stall slightly, then bounce up over them. My 5 Spot displays this tendency some as well but running a bit more sag, bigger, low pressure tubeless tires, and break-in of the bushings has greatly diminished this trait. With the same tweaks and the larger 27.5" hoops I would predict that these kinds of bumps will be mostly erased by the Burner. I'll reserve final judgement for now.
There's a rocky, loose climb with two switchbacks leading into a three-and-a-half foot, near vertical step-up move, followed by more rocky, ledgy climbing on the connector up to the Caldera loop that always challenges me and gives me a good measure of a bike's technical climbing prowess. The Burner proved itself worthy even though I didn't clean the whole climb, one-dabbing the top of the step-up move and flubbing the first rocky, off-camber switchback but I blame my early morning jitters rather than the bike. It found traction on the loose, washed out stuff, felt balanced and and not reluctant while lifting the front wheel, and agile and un-29er like on the tight switch backs.
The next section of Caldera is a fast, rolling, flowy, semi-rough descent down into the bowl that is just flat out fun. The Burner really lit up on this section. The rear seemed to float over over stuff, it stuck in corners and had me hooting and hollering. Made me think the Burner would be a great enduro mount.
The slower, more chunky, unflow of the West Leg descent seemed to expose the hopping/skipping-over feeling in the rear end again but overall I really liked this bike (Craig not as much). It was stiff laterally, steering was accurate and not ponderous and it flicked back and forth 26er-like in the "S" turns. This size large fit my 5' 11.5" inch body pretty well and the whole package felt nicely balanced. The 650B seemed to lean more towards 26" characteristics than 29 but I could feel a little extra momentum carrying into rollers and slightly better rollability over chunk than a 26er but not as much as I thought I would. I'd take the Burner all day long over the Trance X in tighter, steep, slow techy trails.
Here are Craig's thoughts which he posted on the Turner forum
I really missed my dropper post on the more up and down stuff.
This early production Rock Shox 140 Revelation 27.5 specific fork felt really plush with nice damping characteristics while climbing the rocky squares of Bootleg and descending the tamer Caldera loop but got a little in over its head on some of the more abrupt, steeper chunk elsewhere. I think the production Burners in the demo fleet had a 150mm Rev, but I would kill for a 34-36mm 160 fork on this thing.
Giant TranceX 29er
Craig rode this bike on our bigger first loop and then we switched for another climb up then back down Girl Scout. Here's his impressions which he posted in the Giant Forum.
The spec was nice and we both agreed that the XT brakes were the best that we tried. The Giant dropper post worked well and was a welcome addtion on Bootleg's varied terrain. Giant is now branding their own wheels which I believe are made by DT-Swiss. These seemed plenty stiff and didn't suffer from any noticeable flex.
We both liked the new understated Fox graphics and the flex free action of this fork. It never felt quite as plush as the Revelation on the Turner but it was stiffer and tracked well. I would say I was mostly ambivalent about the three position CTD adjustment. I can't see a reason for the locked out "Climb" mode and the "Trail" and "Descend" mode didn't seem that different.
The actuation lever on the Giant Contact Switch post was a bit awkward to engage for me but maybe if it were rotated back a quater turn towards me it would've been more natural. I didn't know Stan's was selling bars now. This felt nice an wide.
Me enjoying the heck out of one tough day.
Before I get into the reviews I always like to get my disclaimers out there so no one gets too excited about my lack of in-depth details and professional perspective. I'm just a guy who likes to ride mountain bikes...a lot. Over the years I've ridden a bunch of different bikes and spent a lot of time riding a bunch of different trails. I'm not particularly observant to every little nuance and gadget on a new bike.... but I think I know what makes for a good mountain bike and I think I'm reasonably good at getting a sense for how a bike performs as a whole and what its strengths and weaknesses are. But remember, these are just first impressions from limited test rides so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't work for or get bro deals from any bike company, which is not to say I don't have any biases, just that my biases are hard won through personal experience, friends, and too much time on the boards.
A couple of main themes from this year's demo:
-650B! Seems like everyone's got one..... except the big companies. That's 27.5" wheels for those who might not know. Momma Bear half-way between the two current standard wheel sizes..
-I'm not sure if it's the cost, the timing, or the hassle involved, but I was surprised at how many companies aren't doing the Outdoor Demo. Last year there were 4-5 of my favorites missing. This year there were 8 or 10 that were AWOL including Banshee, Transition, Norco, Trek, Cannondale, Ventana, Canfield Bros., Knolly, Niner, GT, and Ibis.
-And, as always, thin tubes in Bootleg rocks equals pinch flats. We got two.
- Wide bars. All the bikes we rode were sportin' the long horns. I didn't notice this immediately until someone mentioned it because both my bikes already have wide bars and I love them.
-Did I mention it was hot?
I met up with fellow mtbr member and co-reviewer craigstr Monday morning at 8:30 only to find a pretty long line snaking out of the registration tent. They decided not to mail out badges this year but used e-mail confirmations with bar codes to access and print your badge on site (after you signed the waiver). Sounds easy enough but they had a bit of a computer glitch at first which backed things up, but once moving it went smoothly enough.
I think we stood in this line about 30 minutes.
Badges in hand, I made a beeline for the Turner tent way at the back corner of the demo area to check out the new Burner 650B while Craig headed for Giant to pick up the new Trance 29er.
Turner Burner 650B:
I have been interested in the 650B thing for a while now and know that Dave Turner has been as well. Now with the major fork and tire manufacturers finally getting on board I was excited to see Turner's new creation, the Burner 650 B. I like the name, but by resurrecting the old Burner moniker he may be inviting some confusion as to what this bike is if you knew the old Burner, but it is clearly in the trail/all-mountain category. Think of it as a 650B 5 Spot and you'll have a clear picture. It has 140mm of dw-linked rear wheel travel and well-sorted numbers all around. The frame is true to the Turner design philosophy with mostly straight tubes, smooth welds, and purpose built looks. The component spec on this prototype were all high end, light, carbon, and swanky. It felt pretty light.
After chatting with Dave a bit (do you ever just chat with Dave "a bit"?) about bikes, 650B, and the Downieville DH while he set up the bike (yes, DT, Owner and CEO of Turner bikes personally set up the bike) I was ready for my first demo of the day. Pedaling it away from the Turner tent I was impressed how efficient it felt which shouldn't surprise me because I own a dw link 5 Spot....but it seemed to roll easier than my Spot. Maybe it was the Enve 27.5" carbon hoops.
We decided to climb Girl Scout since it wasn't too hot yet and the trail would be free of downhill traffic. Girl Scout is a fairly smooth, gradual, rolling climb with some rocky chunk mixed in to keep you on your toes and test your tech skills. The Burner rolled nicely and felt efficient while climbing with no noticeable bob. We felt it could have been more active when encountering small to medium sized square edges during the climb though. Instead of easily absorbing these rocks and rolling over smoothly, the rear wheel would stall slightly, then bounce up over them. My 5 Spot displays this tendency some as well but running a bit more sag, bigger, low pressure tubeless tires, and break-in of the bushings has greatly diminished this trait. With the same tweaks and the larger 27.5" hoops I would predict that these kinds of bumps will be mostly erased by the Burner. I'll reserve final judgement for now.
There's a rocky, loose climb with two switchbacks leading into a three-and-a-half foot, near vertical step-up move, followed by more rocky, ledgy climbing on the connector up to the Caldera loop that always challenges me and gives me a good measure of a bike's technical climbing prowess. The Burner proved itself worthy even though I didn't clean the whole climb, one-dabbing the top of the step-up move and flubbing the first rocky, off-camber switchback but I blame my early morning jitters rather than the bike. It found traction on the loose, washed out stuff, felt balanced and and not reluctant while lifting the front wheel, and agile and un-29er like on the tight switch backs.
The next section of Caldera is a fast, rolling, flowy, semi-rough descent down into the bowl that is just flat out fun. The Burner really lit up on this section. The rear seemed to float over over stuff, it stuck in corners and had me hooting and hollering. Made me think the Burner would be a great enduro mount.
The slower, more chunky, unflow of the West Leg descent seemed to expose the hopping/skipping-over feeling in the rear end again but overall I really liked this bike (Craig not as much). It was stiff laterally, steering was accurate and not ponderous and it flicked back and forth 26er-like in the "S" turns. This size large fit my 5' 11.5" inch body pretty well and the whole package felt nicely balanced. The 650B seemed to lean more towards 26" characteristics than 29 but I could feel a little extra momentum carrying into rollers and slightly better rollability over chunk than a 26er but not as much as I thought I would. I'd take the Burner all day long over the Trance X in tighter, steep, slow techy trails.
Here are Craig's thoughts which he posted on the Turner forum
I really missed my dropper post on the more up and down stuff.
This early production Rock Shox 140 Revelation 27.5 specific fork felt really plush with nice damping characteristics while climbing the rocky squares of Bootleg and descending the tamer Caldera loop but got a little in over its head on some of the more abrupt, steeper chunk elsewhere. I think the production Burners in the demo fleet had a 150mm Rev, but I would kill for a 34-36mm 160 fork on this thing.
Giant TranceX 29er
Craig rode this bike on our bigger first loop and then we switched for another climb up then back down Girl Scout. Here's his impressions which he posted in the Giant Forum.
My impressions on the Trance parallel Craigs fairly closely but it took me a little longer getting used to the more ponderous turning radius of the bigger hoops. It felt nice and roomy and I'd forgotten how the taller stack of the 29ers gives you a more upright comfy riding position. I too was impressed with its climbing ability and it definitely felt smoother and got hung up less in the chunkier stuff than the burner once I got the suspension readjusted for my weight and preferences (Craig doesn't look it but at 185 he outweighs me by 20 lbs and likes really fast rebound). The five inches of maestro controlled travel and bigger hoops really seemed to eat up the rough descents. Nice.
The spec was nice and we both agreed that the XT brakes were the best that we tried. The Giant dropper post worked well and was a welcome addtion on Bootleg's varied terrain. Giant is now branding their own wheels which I believe are made by DT-Swiss. These seemed plenty stiff and didn't suffer from any noticeable flex.
We both liked the new understated Fox graphics and the flex free action of this fork. It never felt quite as plush as the Revelation on the Turner but it was stiffer and tracked well. I would say I was mostly ambivalent about the three position CTD adjustment. I can't see a reason for the locked out "Climb" mode and the "Trail" and "Descend" mode didn't seem that different.
The actuation lever on the Giant Contact Switch post was a bit awkward to engage for me but maybe if it were rotated back a quater turn towards me it would've been more natural. I didn't know Stan's was selling bars now. This felt nice an wide.
