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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted this in the Turner forum also but thought I would get some input from the non Turner dh'rs.
So.. the plan was to sell the DHR and Fox 40 for other reasons and then build up a mini dh/ park bike to play around with and do the local race series. The 40 has sold but the DHR is hanging around. I guess asking $1600 for the frame is just too much. I don't want to lose that much cash if I can.
I wanted to get a Transition TR250 for my dh/play bike but that may not happen. is it a bad idea to put a Fox 36 180 on the front of my DHR? 20mm less travel and 6mm difference in a2c. Will there be a notice difference in ride? I've only seen 1 picture of this done but no ride reports. Also, would a Cane Creek Double Barrel Air be a good idea? I'm not schooled in suspension design and how an air shock works with different frames
I would rather sell the frame than bastardize like this but this may be my only option
 

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There is a guy that rides a DHR at Bromont with the Float. He says the only time he misses a larger fork was on straight out speed sections. He said that he found he lost a little stability a high speeds on one trail that is smooth and very fast. Otherwise, he really enjoyed the bike with the single crown.
Another bonus of the single crown on the Turner was that is looked incredible. I almost went with a Van for my DHR but I was able to sell Van just before the season started and got a great deal on a boxxer.
I don't think that the CCDB air will fit the Turner. There is not enough room for the Vivid unless you dremmel the linkage. Contact Fanatik bikes about it as they do the mod to fit the Vivid.

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Right on. That was the info I was hoping for. I didn't even think about fitment issues with an air shock. Guess I'll get a Ti spring and count that as some weight saving. Cash as well.
 

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The CCDB air definitely fits the DHR. If you scroll down on this link you'll see a pic of it mounted on the frame:

» Preview: 2012 Cane Creek Double Barrel Air DBAir - Sick Lines ? mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

Now, would I recommend it? Probably not. I haven't tried an air shock on my DHR but it sounds like the progression built into the frame's leverage curve as well as the progressive nature of an air shock wouldn't gel. What you would end up having was a shock that would never use full travel and feel overly harsh on the travel you did use. With the right tune on an air shock like the Vivid Air or the correct combination of settings on something super adjustable like the CCDB Air, you may be able to get the shock feeling good. Also, the CCDB has the option of the XV (extra volume) air can which effectively makes the shock less progressive so you could very well get the shock to perform like a coil. However, is all that extra effort worth saving 100 grams? I don't think so, but that's your call.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Whoa....100 grams is all? I thought it would be more weight savings. Oh well. I'm not much of a tinkerer..er on my suspension. I tend to set it and forget unless I feel like it's not running right.
Thanks for the info
 

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100 grams sounds off. the DB air is 60 grams heavier then the DB coil w/o spring. Spring weight will vary based on material and size. I have a hard time believing you will find a 160 gram spring.
 

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Whoa....100 grams is all? I thought it would be more weight savings. Oh well. I'm not much of a tinkerer..er on my suspension. I tend to set it and forget unless I feel like it's not running right.
Thanks for the info
Sorry, my math was a bit off:

CCDB Air 9.5 x 3.0 = 560 grams

Fox DHX RC4 9.5 x 3.0 = 450 grams
400lb steel spring = 580 grams
400lb ti spring = 400 grams
Total weight = 1030 grams (steel) 850 grams (ti)

So with the air you save 470 grams from a shock with steel spring and 290 grams with a ti spring. That's a decent chunk of weight, but think of it in these terms: If you keep your current shock and get a ti spring, you save about 200 grams and spend 150 bucks. (You can get cheap springs from Ti-Springs.com). If you get the Air, you save 470 grams but spend 600 bucks for a shock that you may not like and at the very least will take a lot of tinkering to get it to feel good.

On a whole other note, you can find a 400lb ti spring closer to the 300 gram range but I don't know of anyplace that reliably sells them. Every once in a while one will pop up used, but obviously you can't count on it, and they will be pricey, more likely in the 200-300 dollar range. And if you're dropping that much coin on a spring, then the air shock suddenly becomes a little more appealing...

That said, I get the whole weight shaving and upgrade fever state of mind. And it's pretty tempting to shave off a pound by just swapping one component. So if you wanna do it, go for it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'll just go the Ti spring route. I would rather ride than mess with my shock trying to get setup right. Especially when it's already running smooth
 

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If it ain't broke don't fix it, is a good rule of thumb here.

What was the original point of getting the 36..to make the DHR more of an all rounder? I think it would be a waste, the DHR is a full blown race rig. Putting a 36 180mm isn't going to turn it into something you can pedal around easier etc etc. You would just be losing the confidence inspiring stiffness that a dual crown gives you and for minimal weight loss, and lose an inch of travel as well. I would definitely stick with a dual crown 8 inch fork.

From what I read, most rear shock experimenters prefer the RC4, but there are a few who prefer something else. I know Iggz runs an X Fusion Vector air and loves it, but he also has a shim stack that is not stock. As far as rear shock choices go, proceed with caution...it would suck to drop some serious dough on something different only to be displeased.

For some weight savings whilst maintaining the current feel of the bike, ti springs front and rear will make a difference that you can actually feel when on the bike. Obviously an air fork will save lots of weight, but I prefer coils on my dh bike. I'm about to start my 3rd season with my DW DHR, and I run a 40 and RC4. Wouldn't change a thing. I have a ti spring in the fork, and would love one on the RC4 some day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The original reason I put all this up for sale was to take care of other things in life right now. Then when I was able to spend cash on a dh bike either get another full dh bike or get a mini dh/park bike like the Transition TR250. The Fox 40 sold and the frame isn't. Even though the money could be used elsewhere right now I don't want to lower it too much and lose a lot of money. I don't know if people don't understand how sick of a bike the DHR is but there isn't any interest.
Anyway, I'm going to get a Ti spring, mount the 36 and ride. That's the only thing that will give me a break from the stress of life.
Thanks for the info
 

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The original reason I put all this up for sale was to take care of other things in life right now. Then when I was able to spend cash on a dh bike either get another full dh bike or get a mini dh/park bike like the Transition TR250. The Fox 40 sold and the frame isn't. Even though the money could be used elsewhere right now I don't want to lower it too much and lose a lot of money. I don't know if people don't understand how sick of a bike the DHR is but there isn't any interest.
Anyway, I'm going to get a Ti spring, mount the 36 and ride. That's the only thing that will give me a break from the stress of life.
Thanks for the info
Yeah, just get out and ride! Sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the latest bling, but what's important is to just enjoy.

Sorry you haven't been able to sell the frame at your preferred price point. DHR is one of the raddest frames out there, but it can be had pretty cheap. I think you can get a brand new frame with a RC2 shock for around 1600. That's probably why you haven't had any nibbles.
 

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The original reason I put all this up for sale was to take care of other things in life right now. Then when I was able to spend cash on a dh bike either get another full dh bike or get a mini dh/park bike like the Transition TR250. The Fox 40 sold and the frame isn't. Even though the money could be used elsewhere right now I don't want to lower it too much and lose a lot of money. I don't know if people don't understand how sick of a bike the DHR is but there isn't any interest.
Anyway, I'm going to get a Ti spring, mount the 36 and ride. That's the only thing that will give me a break from the stress of life.
Thanks for the info
Can't fault ya there. And yeah I'm surprised how the DW DHR doesn't get more buyers, I think people think its a heavy plow bike but its really not. Super nimble and flickable, yet still able to plow through anything. It really is the best DH bike out there. I was talking to the owner of Vorsprung(a very respected suspension tuner in Whistler) and this is what he had to say about the DHR

"No worries! The DHR is in my opinion the best DH bike on the market in terms of ride quality. The reason for this is that, in amongst making it pedal well and handle well, DW has basically idiot-proofed the suspension setup to the largest possible degree by creating a leverage rate curve that is extremely easy to work with - the initial stroke is at quite a high leverage ratio so very supple, the mid stroke is linear so it isn't ramping up too hard or forcing a super soft/wallowy setup on you, then the end stroke ramps up so you don't have to compromise in most of the bump-eating travel in order to resist bottom out. This means that unless you're hitting a lot of jumps, you can just err on the low side with the compression settings, which is way easier than trying to nail down a precise balance of settings. "
 

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Can't fault ya there. And yeah I'm surprised how the DW DHR doesn't get more buyers, I think people think its a heavy plow bike but its really not. Super nimble and flickable, yet still able to plow through anything. It really is the best DH bike out there.
I think it's sadly a matter of marketing, namely that Turner doesn't sponsor a hard-hitting DH team. Imagine the world's top riders on a DHR. My pick would be to see vintage Sam Hill on the DW-Link DHR!
 

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The op got me thinking, which can get expensive. I contacted both Turner and Cane Creek about using the CCDB air on the DHR.

CC's response: That bike is designed for a coil shock, so ultimately the coil will give the best all around performance. The Air can be set up to work well with the DHR but it will definitely ride differently than the coil. Also keep in mind the air shock will require air seal maintenance about every 50 hrs use, damper service every 100 hrs were the coil is just damper service every 100 hrs.
Dave Turner's response: The Vivid requires grinding of the upper link as the air can is larger in diameter than the spring. The CCDB sounds like it fits better from reading the forums. All our demo and personal bikes use coils as none of us are racers just chair riders so we run the bikes with Vivid coil or RC4s.
 

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I think it's sadly a matter of marketing, namely that Turner doesn't sponsor a hard-hitting DH team. Imagine the world's top riders on a DHR. My pick would be to see vintage Sam Hill on the DW-Link DHR!
I've always wondered what Sam's opinion on it would be, I've got to imagine he would love it. But yeah if a major WC team rode DHR's it would do wonders for its popularity. I know quite a few privateer's use them, which says alot. Not being tied down to a specific frame sponsor, they choose to spend their hard earned money on a DHR which is significantly more expensive than a Demo, Session, Glory etc.

Rugbyred - For DH applications I think a coil is the better choice no matter what frame its on. I'd say 85%+ of the world cup field rides coils, the feeling of a coil shock is just so much better than air(in my opinion). The two main benefits of air are infinite spring rate range and weight. I know that most of the Yeti employee's use coil RC4's on their personal SB66's. Thirion did win on that Bos air shock, but he would have won that race anyway. It was great exposure for the potential of an air shock but in the end, air shocks are always trying to replicate the feel of a coil. I prefer to save weight elsewhere. That being said, I am building a 6 Point for trail riding and have spec'd a Lyrik air and Vivid air. Will be my first experience owning air platform shocks, I'm excited to see how I get on with them. The number one most important aspect of a downhill bike though is suspension performance, and going air is selling yourself short in that regard(only my opinion of course).
 

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I recently picked up a CCDB coil at a price I couldn't refuse to try on my DHR in place of my 2013 RC4. It is a much greater improvement than I expected. With the RC4 the rear end had a harshness to it that I just attributed to a normal feel of hitting stuff at speed. The CCDB feels like I am running a lighter spring (but without the negative effects) and all the harshness is gone. For reference, my 6Point with an Avy tuned ROCO WC felt better over high speed chatter than the DHR/RC4.
 

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The guy I bought my frame from had a single crown fork and CCDB Air shock on it:

bikes Photo Album - Pinkbike

You may want to contact him there for feedback. He seemed to like the CCDB on the bike and from what he said, it didn't spike on the high speed mid travel stuff.

I really dig this bike, but it's not perfect (in my experience anyway). Initially I installed a DHX-3 (tuned for another bike) and that spiked. Immediately bought an Elka tuned for DW-DHRs and that had a bit of spiking too so I left the HSC and LSC at full open. I just purchased a softer spring now and hopefully I can finally dial in the suspension. It's definitely not a set-it-and-forget-it kind of bike.

As an aside, I also got a poo-poo DHX-5 Air shock (which will now be my spare) and weighed it against the Elka with Cane Creek springs (to all weight weenies, the CC springs are 100 grams lighter than Fox). It's practically a 500 gram difference. I'll let you know how that poo-shock does on the DHR when I get a chance. It felt fine when sitting down (squish-squish). =)
 

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I recently picked up a CCDB coil at a price I couldn't refuse to try on my DHR in place of my 2013 RC4. It is a much greater improvement than I expected. With the RC4 the rear end had a harshness to it that I just attributed to a normal feel of hitting stuff at speed. The CCDB feels like I am running a lighter spring (but without the negative effects) and all the harshness is gone. For reference, my 6Point with an Avy tuned ROCO WC felt better over high speed chatter than the DHR/RC4.
I've heard similar feedback from others. Apparently the RC4 is on the progressive side for a coil and gives the frame a harsher ride. I believe this has been somewhat remedied with the 2014+ RC4 that has a smaller shaft diameter.

YMMV. My friend has no complaints on his RC4 and others here seem to like it. I swapped my RC4 out of my frame and replaced it with a DW-Link tuned X-Fusion Vector shock before I ever rode the RC4 so I can't comment on it myself.
 

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I have directly compared and adjusted my 2012 RC4 and a 2011 cane creek DB on my DHR, and the RC4 was definitely harsher at northstar but did give me more pop on doubles than the CCDB. however from what I've heard, the newest RC4 would probably work better than my 2012.
 
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