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2010 Marzocchi TST2 AIR 140mm - Lockout failure

10453 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by CharacterZero, Dec 30, 2009

MarkHL

Discussion Starter · Dec 23, 2009 (Edited)

2010 Marzocchi TST2 AIR 140mm; 18 rides on it...
I rarely use my lockout, but engaged it last night in the garage and found it is no longer functioning correcly. It takes about 4 pumps to get it to lock but then it's only locking half the fork travel (i.e., the first 2-3 inches of fork travel is not locked). I tried it a couple of times during the ride today - same story.

Otherwise, the fork working really well. While I really don't have a need for the lockout, it sure doesn't inspire too much confidence in the fork. It has less than 30 hours of riding on it.

3 year warranty on this fork; if it continues to function well in the non-locked out mode, I'll just wait until it needs service to deal with it.

I know many of you are familar with the inner workings of this fork. Any idea what happened?

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davep

· #2 · Dec 23, 2009

Beause of the complete lack of tech documentation (as well as admittedly not paying much attention to Marz since about 06) I dont know the exact layout of the internals...

But what you describe, screams a loss of damper fluid. The lock out is in simple terms, a port or hole that oil flows through. When you lock the fork, you close the port. If the oil level drops. the port can be in the air above the oil....since air is compressable, the lock no longer works untill you compress the fork such that the port is back submerged in the oil.

The TST cartrage has had a long history of leaking and I would guess this is what happened to your fork.

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MarkHL

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 23, 2009 (Edited)

I've taken Marz forks apart before; I reviewed the disassembly instructions on the TST2 posted on this forum for a 55. The hardware looks similar. It doesn't look too difficult to access and open the cartridge (I thought the inner tube for holding the cartridge was a great idea and would work in other applications as well).

It must be difficult to up with a design that can withstand a full compression blast without the extreme pressures having to go somewhere; I suspect I've also lost a bit of full travel due to the cartridge oil contaminating the oil bath. As long as I don't lose my rebound dampening or too much of the fork travel, I'll catch this problem at the next oil change.

thanx

Mark

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jeffj

· #4 · Dec 24, 2009

That happened to my 2010 44 TST2 Air a few weeks ago. It was the TST being a tad low on fluid. Marz is close by so I took it in and let them top it off (actually I think the fluid on that side is a measured amount rather than filling it to a specific measured point, but you should call Marz to confirm that). Been working great ever since.

There was no evidence of a "leak" (at least externally), so I don't know why it was suddenly too low to function properly.

Exactly how it was done? IDK, but the TST2 was not 'broken'.

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MarkHL

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 25, 2009

Where did the fluid go?

I think davep explained it pretty well. The right leg has two fluid reservoirs. One is in the cartridge and the other is a oil bath that is external to the cartridge. What possibly happened was under high compression (or repeated compression) some of the fluid in the cartridge got expelled to the external oil bath. This is why you didn't see any leaks. Marz probably just refilled your cartridge (and possibly removed some oil from your bath). Unfortunately, it may just be a temporary fix. The oil in the cartridge will probably blow through the seals (again) and you'll have the lockout problem repeat itself.
Your TST2 may not be broken, however it may not be well either... Time will tell.

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09Reign

· #6 · Dec 26, 2009

They need to drop TST2. It's total crap and it takes Marz 8 weeks to fix it and send it back when it dies. It's unbelievable that a company can have repeated issues with something and still produce it and act like nothing is wrong. Lame product, lame company.

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Bikesair

· #7 · Dec 26, 2009

09Reign said:
They need to drop TST2. It's total crap and it takes Marz 8 weeks to fix it and send it back when it dies. It's unbelievable that a company can have repeated issues with something and still produce it and act like nothing is wrong. Lame product, lame company.

Sounds like you should get a nice maintenance free, bombproof Rock Shock with their excellent LBS only rma program.
Here's my suggestion : World record? Rockshox Revelation 2010 failed after 1 Minute of riding

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xxxlucaxxx

· #8 · Dec 28, 2009 (Edited)

i have a similar problem....lockout don't blok completely the travel of the fork....in other words, the travel is only slowed but the fork is not completely blocked (use full travel)...the tst cartrige was good bleeded...i have also changed the o'rings of the compression piston....
i asked me, if i put any spessor between spring and piston, i make the spring more hard..and the oil don't pass...it's true? it is a possible solution? anybody have tray it?
or are the costruction of blow off system that don't blok completely the fork? (in this case there is nothing to do...)
The idea i was found:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4274847&postcount=29
on
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=393052&page=2

Thanks @ esxpert that response!

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MarkHL

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 30, 2009 (Edited)

I fixed (temporarily?) my problem...

I made the original post asking why my lockout had stopped working on my new 2010 Marz TST2 Air 140mm...

davep had it right; oil was no longer covering the lockout orfice in the damper assembly.

There's definitely a correlation between the lockout failing to actuate and also losing full fork travel. My 140mm of travel was now about 120mm (or less).

So... I tore into it tonight. Added enough 2.5wt oil to the damper assembly to make sure it was above the mechanical orifice and then removed the same amount of oil from the oil bath. I now had full lockout again and full fork travel.

Thought I'd share some knowledge:

The assembly looks very similar to the 55 instructions posted elsewhere on this forum. However, there is no spring in the left stanchion.

1) I released all the air from the left stanchion and unscrewed the top cap. Unscrewing the cap may not be necessary but it keeps it from having suction develop making it difficult to work on the right one.

2) I used a screwdriver to (gently) pry off the red lever. There are now three bits of plastic to remove.

3) Unscrew the damper from the right stanchion

4) Unscrew the nut that holds the compression/lockout lever in place

Here, I removed the fork from the bike because I could not get the inner-tube clamp idea to work for me...

5) I held the damper assembly in a small vice with plastic jaws. I didn't want to squeeze the damper housing too tight, so when it began to spin in the plastic jaws. I gave the socket wrench a gentle smack with the palm of my hand and the assembly started to unscrew.

6) I pulled the lockout assembly out of the housing and put enough 2.5 wt oil in it so it would cover the lockout assembly once reinstalled. I read somewhere else on this forum to use 2.5 wt in the damper. (I believe 7.5 wt is used for the oil bath).

7) I then emptied out the same amount of fork bath from the right stanchion (the oil I lost from the damper assembly had to go somewhere- it didn't externally leak out.).

Re-assembled in reverse order and everything was working well again.
With just a little air in the left stanchion I checked to see if I was getting full travel again. I was; I engaged the lock out and it was solid with no play.

Do I feel good? Well yes and no... My fork is working again, however I didn't do anything that would prevent it from happening again. I suspect the oil will leak out of the damper again and I'll be back to having to repeat this procedure. I figure it'll take me about an hour to do it next time; faster if I can figure out a way to hold the damper assembly without having to remove the fork.

I contacted the Marz tech department by email and told them what I did and questioned whether my damper may be defective. I haven't received a reply back. I'm hoping I get more of a response than "I voided my warranty..."

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MarkHL

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 30, 2009

jeffj said:
That happened to my 2010 44 TST2 Air a few weeks ago. It was the TST being a tad low on fluid. Marz is close by so I took it in and let them top it off (actually I think the fluid on that side is a measured amount rather than filling it to a specific measured point, but you should call Marz to confirm that). Been working great ever since.

There was no evidence of a "leak" (at least externally), so I don't know why it was suddenly too low to function properly.

Exactly how it was done? IDK, but the TST2 was not 'broken'.

Oil levels for all marz forks can be found here:
http://www.marzocchi.com/template/contenuto.asp?LN=UK&IDFolder=777

For the 2010 Marz 44 TST2 Air it's 120cc in the left, and 50cc in the right (7.5 wt oil). I suspect the damper assembly has to be high enough to cover the lockout orifice... No level specified;

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CharacterZero

· #11 · Dec 30, 2009

Bikesair said:
Sounds like you should get a nice maintenance free, bombproof Rock Shock with their excellent LBS only rma program.
Here's my suggestion : World record? Rockshox Revelation 2010 failed after 1 Minute of riding

[email protected] The joke is on you.

The reality is that all products can and will fail at some point.

SRAM takes care of customers quickly and efficiently - they have taken care of my fork issues 2x in 3 years with a week turnaround each time. And I wasn't the original owner. And they know this.

So, go with SRAM and have a failure rate of 1%, or go with Marz and run a seemingly 15x higher rate of failure. When people ask for comparisons between RS and Marz, it often turns into a Marz support thread where more experienced users/mechanics try and instruct others how to resolve the issue. Please note that this thread we are posting in is now in that classification too.

The reality is that SRAM has stepped up their product quality and offerings, whereas Marz has done the opposite. An enthusiastic user community is a great resource, but I'd rather have someone else fix it than have to do it myself.

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