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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A few things:

I got smacked by a car on my road bike this summer and have this windfall that I just need to spend on a nice bike.

I have, and still can win Cat1 XC races, and have been primarily an XC rider in the past.

I'm getting older, XC racing has lost its luster, and I want to switch up my game, get a bike that will allow an entirely different style of riding, one that I will have to evolve into, and not be a badass from day 1.

I still will do climbs that are 5000' at a pop and some 10,000' backcountry days this summer.

Will a Delirium with a 66 be too much to climb with? I'm thinking more geometry than weight, as I've got strength a plenty to push just about anything up a hill.

Also, no chance of a demo, as there is no dealer in NM. I'm gonna buy sight unseen and hope for the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
NoahColorado said:
Not for a Cat. 1 winning XC racer. You'll be fine. :thumbsup:
Turning the pedals isn't going to be an issue, even at 35-37 pounds.

I wanna know if I can keep the front wheel on the ground with a 50mm stem and 180mm fork.

I really do like the fact that Knollys come with nice short head tubes. I'll probably run one of those Sunline flat bars. In my (limited) experience, a low bar makes up for all kinds of slackness and travel on steep climbs, and helps me weight the front on looser corners. Though, this will be the slackest longest travel bike I've owned by far, so what do I know?
 

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juan_speeder said:
Turning the pedals isn't going to be an issue, even at 35-37 pounds.

I wanna know if I can keep the front wheel on the ground with a 50mm stem and 180mm fork.

I really do like the fact that Knollys come with nice short head tubes. I'll probably run one of those Sunline flat bars. In my (limited) experience, a low bar makes up for all kinds of slackness and travel on steep climbs, and helps me weight the front on looser corners. Though, this will be the slackest longest travel bike I've owned by far, so what do I know?
Climbing with a 180mm fork on the DT is no problem. I've been riding mine with a Totem here in New England for over a year. Everything from long boring fireroad grinders to real steep techy climbs and I have no problem keeping the front end down. Sure it's not optimal but it's worth it for everything else this frame brings to the table. I run mine with a 60mm stem and a set of 2" riser bars and a 2 spacer stack under the stem. If you're worried about the geo you could get a flush headset to drop things down even further. I say go for it.
 

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You will be fine

The 2010 DT has a much more upright seated postion, much more comfortable for long climbs. Its also a pound lighter but with a 66 you are going to have a pretty tough time hitting 35-37 lbs unless you are on small frame with an airshock. I think closer to 40 lbs for a respectable build with a 66. Regardless, it sounds like you could push a sherman tank up the hill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
woodyak said:
Climbing with a 180mm fork on the DT is no problem. I've been riding mine with a Totem here in New England for over a year. Everything from long boring fireroad grinders to real steep techy climbs and I have no problem keeping the front end down. Sure it's not optimal but it's worth it for everything else this frame brings to the table. I run mine with a 60mm stem and a set of 2" riser bars and a 2 spacer stack under the stem. If you're worried about the geo you could get a flush headset to drop things down even further. I say go for it.
Perfect. I just wanted someone to chime in and say "it's doable".

Now, to pull the trigger.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
craigstr said:
Regardless, it sounds like you could push a sherman tank up the hill.
Heh.

40 is no biggie either, but I bet I get closer to 37 with appropriate parts (ti coil f&r), as my settlement check is pretty big.

For training I used to pull my 2 kids, in one of those child trailers, up the local 4000' road climb.

People would actually get pissed off as I passed them :thumbsup:
 

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juan_speeder said:
Perfect. I just wanted someone to chime in and say "it's doable".

Now, to pull the trigger.

Thanks.
More than do-able. I think it climbs quite well actually. I have the older frame and mine chimes in at 38 lbs. with a Totem coil, CCDB w/TI spring, Mavic 721's, etc. The newer frame could easily be brought down to the 36, 37 lb. range with a less burly build.
 

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OT: Welcome to the world of Ultimate All-Mountain. As mentioned above, its absolutely doable. You get a comfy ride, and performance when you turn downhill or onto rough terrain in general. The long rides you talk about are not doable even on a light XC bike if the rider is not fit. A fit rider like yourself can do 'em on light bikes or heavy bikes, its just a matter of changing riding style.

I would even go as far as saying that you don't get tired more on a heavier bike, but rather lose a bit on average speed.. you just get forced into a different 'zone'. Naturally if you try to keep high speed on flat terrain you will get more tired, but like i said, its a different style of riding.. a rewarding one imo. Actually, i even read somewhere that the steeper the climb, the less weight plays a role.
Geometry on the DT is totally pedal friendly, but a travel adjust fork is useful if you have reeeally steep climbs, keep that in mind.

I ride a 41lb bike with dual ply tires and an older travel adjust 66 for all day riding, and i know why i do it. If you think that's the thing for you as well, go for it!!

ps. 37lbs is certainly not impossible to achieve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
PsyCro said:
OT: Welcome to the world of Ultimate All-Mountain. As mentioned above, its absolutely doable. You get a comfy ride, and performance when you turn downhill or onto rough terrain in general. The long rides you talk about are not doable even on a light XC bike if the rider is not fit. A fit rider like yourself can do 'em on light bikes or heavy bikes, its just a matter of changing riding style.

I would even go as far as saying that you don't get tired more on a heavier bike, but rather lose a bit on average speed.. you just get forced into a different 'zone'. Naturally if you try to keep high speed on flat terrain you will get more tired, but like i said, its a different style of riding.. a rewarding one imo. Actually, i even read somewhere that the steeper the climb, the less weight plays a role.
Geometry on the DT is totally pedal friendly, but a travel adjust fork is useful if you have reeeally steep climbs, keep that in mind.

I ride a 41lb bike with dual ply tires and an older travel adjust 66 for all day riding, and i know why i do it. If you think that's the thing for you as well, go for it!!

ps. 37lbs is certainly not impossible to achieve.
That all sounds good to me.

Any time I lose on the climb, I'll make up on the DH :p

I know it doesn't work that way, but I think I can climb with a >35 <40 pound rig without much handicap, as long as I'm not racing someone on a 20 pound hardtail to the top.

That said, with what my skills are right now, I know I'm buying too much bike, but I merely see it as an opportunity for growth.
 

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Hi juan_speeder!

As others have said here, you will definitely be able to achieve what you're looking for, especially with an intelligent build on the bike.

As you might know, in 2004, 2005 and 2006 we had approximately a dozen customers who "raced" the Test of Metal XC race in Squamish BC on V-tachs! The course is about 65 - 70km long, and has over 4000' of climbing in it (www.testofmetal.com). One customer even achieved a 3 hour, 45min time in the race, coming in the top 10% of riders in the non-pro men's division (yes, he is a freak!). So, it is doable for sure.

On top of that, the 2010 Delirium has (as craigstr mentions) - by far - the best pedaling position of any longer travel bike that we've designed. IMHO this frame climbs better with a fixed travel 180mm fork on it (i.e. 66 or Totem) than the 2009 frame climbs with a 160mm fork. In fact, i would probably state that it climbs as well as the 2009 frame can climb with a travel adjustable fork in the 140mm position: yes, the seated climbing position and pedaling is that much better. Of course, NONE of the technical performance of the frame has been compromised - in fact, it's even slightly better in serious descents as well!

Also, as you mentioned, with a 1.125 steerer on the 66, you should be able to run a zero stack headset which will help keep the front end reasonably low to help get over the front of the bike.

Just be conscious of your build and if you are at all planning to have DH tires, you might want to have a second set of single ply tires for those days with a lot of climbing in them :)

Cheers!
 

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Not to derail. But if you really want to get a DT to #36-37, you should make a thread inviting a build up suggestions for a no limit DT build.

If I were doing that I would include:
-XTR drivetrain (strong enough, and durable for the roadie in you)
-Point1 stem (phenomenal!) and pedals (not tested)
-Easton Carbon DH bar (I don't trust anyone else for carbon)
-66Ti
-Thompson seatpost (although I have been testing a knockoff Eriksen post made in China, so far I still have my privates...)


others can chime in with wheelsets, tire choice etc. Tires in particular are terrain specific. Lots of choices re: tubeless, vs ghetto-tubeless, vs standard etc
 

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I have no idea why but everytime I read a Knolly topic like this my mouth starts filling with saliva. Man I wish I had one..
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
knollybikes.com said:
Hi juan_speeder!

Also, as you mentioned, with a 1.125 steerer on the 66, you should be able to run a zero stack headset which will help keep the front end reasonably low to help get over the front of the bike.

Cheers!
I could have sworn, that in another thread, you stated that a 66's crown/knobs might hit the downtube in this configuration. Or was that with the pre-'10 frames?
 

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GaryM said:
Yes, the curved downtube on the '10's has improved fork clearance.
Yup, exactly.

Two differences in the 2010 Deliriums are that - as Gary mentioned - the curved down tube provides better fork crown clearance; and secondly the front derailleur cable guides are now located on the top of the down tube instead of underneath it.

These two changes mean that there is a lot more fork crown clearance underneath the down tube now. However, you will STILL want to check fork crown / down tube clearance with any zero stack headset as fork manufacturers seem to have a bit of a habit of changing knob heights throughout production runs. Also, some forks like the Totem have knobs with parts that pop up, or like previous gen 66 ATAs can flip open: this will obviously further decrease fork / down tube clearance.

Also, because the angle of the down tube changes for every frame size, not every frame will have the exact same clearance. I guess what I'm saying is that we've done our best to ensure that the major forks on the market will work with zero stack headsets on the new Deliriums: however, be smart and ensure that you know exactly what your situation is when you build up your bike.

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
knollybikes.com said:
Yup, exactly.

Two differences in the 2010 Deliriums are that - as Gary mentioned - the curved down tube provides better fork crown clearance; and secondly the front derailleur cable guides are now located on the top of the down tube instead of underneath it.

These two changes mean that there is a lot more fork crown clearance underneath the down tube now. However, you will STILL want to check fork crown / down tube clearance with any zero stack headset as fork manufacturers seem to have a bit of a habit of changing knob heights throughout production runs. Also, some forks like the Totem have knobs with parts that pop up, or like previous gen 66 ATAs can flip open: this will obviously further decrease fork / down tube clearance.

Also, because the angle of the down tube changes for every frame size, not every frame will have the exact same clearance. I guess what I'm saying is that we've done our best to ensure that the major forks on the market will work with zero stack headsets on the new Deliriums: however, be smart and ensure that you know exactly what your situation is when you build up your bike.

Cheers!
Hey Noel,

Since I seem to have a better chance of getting answers here in lieu of via email - not that I care, it's the holidays and all...

Do you know what the BB height will be, in the lowest setting, with a 180mm 66 and a zerostack headset?

Are we still looking at March availability?

What's the bottom point on which the seat tube length is based?

Raw will be a color option, no?

What spring rate for someone 175 lbs all geared up?

Thanks,

Juan
 

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juan_speeder said:
Hey Noel,

Since I seem to have a better chance of getting answers here in lieu of via email - not that I care, it's the holidays and all...

Do you know what the BB height will be, in the lowest setting, with a 180mm 66 and a zerostack headset?

Are we still looking at March availability?

What's the bottom point on which the seat tube length is based?

Raw will be a color option, no?

What spring rate for someone 175 lbs all geared up?

Thanks,

Juan
LOL - yes, the office was closed last week - we're now back in full force and getting caught up on e-mails!

OK - answers:

BB Height: can't say exactly, but I would imagine it would be right around 14" +/- 0.1" depending upon fork / headset, etc... However, that is an educated guess and I haven't measured this out.

We are still on our production schedule.

The seat tube length is the distance from the center axis of the BB shell to the top of the seat tube.

Yes, raw will be an option.

Spring rate may slightly change based upon which shock you choose with your frame, but most likely you'll use a 400# spring.

Cheers!
 

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just to chime in

After a season of riding and climbing on my '09 DT I found that by the end of the year I was climbing better with my Lyrik U-Turn in the 160mm position and my head tube in its slackest position. In fact, the steepest HT setting and lowest for weight felt too far forward, even when climbing.

Noel: Do you think I would be just as well of with a 180mm 66 Ti on my '09 Frame?

I'm not a Cat 1 by any stretch of the imagination but I can pedal. The sad thing is that the hurt I lay down on my friends on the road gets paid back in spades on the trail. I need to figure that one out somehow :confused:
 
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