[Phoenix864]

Hi all,

A friend of mine was recently cleaning out their garage and was looking to get rid of an old Yeti DJ. As it was a complete bike and only needs a bit of love to get back on the trails, I decided to pick it up.

Its currently got a 2008 RS Lyrik 2-Step up front. Amazingly, the fork does seem to work - rebound, compression, and the travel adjust all seem to work fine. the stanchions are pretty clean, with only a minor nick on one of the stanchions. That said, I would assume the fork could at least use a lowers service, if not a full teardown and rebuild. I'm a bit hesitant of the 2-Step system, it seems that it's not very reliable and makes servicing more difficult.

With a fork this old, is it worth trying to service it (I've never serviced suspension before, but it seems like this could be a good learning opportunity), or should I just sell it for very cheap and look at buying another used but slightly newer and more reliable fork?

Thanks.

 

[kapusta]

I am not familiar with the 2-step internals, but I’ve done a full rebuild of a 2013 Lyrik Dual Position Air and it was really quite easy if you are even moderately mechanically inclined and can follow directions.

The rebuild kit was under $50, and you can get a decade’s worth of damper and lower oil for $30 (I buy Maxima).

The only “special” tool you really need is snap ring pliers. A 24mm socket is nice for the top caps, but a crescent wrench will do.

All of the RS forks I have rebuilt (2007 Reba dual air, 2004 Pike I-turn coul, 2013 Lyric DPA) are super easy to rebuild to a like-new condition.

The only thing that would make me NOT want to do a rebuild would be if there is play in the bushings in the lowers.

TL;DR..... unless the bushings are worn, Rebuild it. Totally worth it, IMO.

 

[Phoenix864]

I am not familiar with the 2-step internals, but I've done a full rebuild of a 2013 Lyrik Dual Position Air and it was really quite easy if you are even moderately mechanically inclined and can follow directions.

The rebuild kit was under $50, and you can get a decade's worth of damper and lower oil for $30 (I buy Maxima).

The only "special" tool you really need is snap ring pliers. A 24mm socket is nice for the top caps, but a crescent wrench will do.

All of the RS forks I have rebuilt (2007 Reba dual air, 2004 Pike I-turn coul, 2013 Lyric DPA) are super easy to rebuild to a like-new condition.

The only thing that would make me NOT want to do a rebuild would be if there is play in the bushings in the lowers.

TL;DR..... unless the bushings are worn, Rebuild it. Totally worth it, IMO.

Thanks for the info - it sounds like a rebuild is worth a shot. I can't really feel much bushing play when holding the front brake and rocking the bike, so hopefully the bushings are in acceptable shape. I haven't worked with suspension before, but this should be a good learning opportunity, speaking it's an old and free fork.

After looking at some more photos online I'm no longer exactly sure of the year of the fork. It seems like the 2008 and 2010 look exactly the same. Is there a good way to date a fork to ensure that I get the correct year's service parts? Building on that, I wouldn't mind swapping the 2-air damper for a simpler one (maybe the u-turn coil?). Is there a good spot to look for parts like that for older forks?

Thanks.

 

[kapusta]

Thanks for the info - it sounds like a rebuild is worth a shot. I can't really feel much bushing play when holding the front brake and rocking the bike, so hopefully the bushings are in acceptable shape. I haven't worked with suspension before, but this should be a good learning opportunity, speaking it's an old and free fork.

After looking at some more photos online I'm no longer exactly sure of the year of the fork. It seems like the 2008 and 2010 look exactly the same. Is there a good way to date a fork to ensure that I get the correct year's service parts? Building on that, I wouldn't mind swapping the 2-air damper for a simpler one (maybe the u-turn coil?). Is there a good spot to look for parts like that for older forks?

Thanks.

I am going to guess with 98% certainty that the rebuild kit for a 2008 and 2010 would be the same.

Regarding parts for a U-turn conversion.... Those parts are pretty hard to come by, but it is doable. Probably the best thing to do (if you really want to do it) is find an old trashed u-turn lyric. The coil and related parts should still be fine, there is nothing to really wear out. I have wanted to convert my DPA to U-Turn coil, but have thus far been unwilling to pay what people are asking for used forks, especially since the coils are hard to find in the event that the one I get does not have the right spring weight. You would think that coils would be easily available since they last indefinitely and do not wear out, but I have not found that to be the case. I often look on Pinkbike, and have a saved search on e-bay that has turned up nothing for the past year.

If you decide to go for a solo air conversion, check to see if it is compatible. I have heard that there is small difference in the stanchions between the coil and solo air versions of at least some Lyriks. There is apparently a small divot in the solo air fork to allow the pressure in the positive and negative chambers to balance. I do not know this from experience, though. My DPA does not have that divot.

 

[Phoenix864]

Yeah, it seems that parts are pretty rare for the older Lyriks. Getting a used one for parts does look to be pretty expensive for the hassle, it seems that just buying a working used fork and then refreshing it would be a better option.

I actually saw that worldwide cyclery offers some parts for the older Lyirks.

Solo air spring internals: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...2013-lyrik-spring-internals-left-solo-air-170

Mission control DH damper: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...und-damper-mission-control-mission-control-dh

I would think that these both could be installed in a single fork, since one is air side and the other is damper side, but Rockshox's rather confusing list of dampers and air/coil springs from that time make it hard to tell if both of these are compatible. I would guess that a fork with both of these installed would be a solo air fork with mission control DH damping?

Of course, that still raises the question if the 2-air forks are compatible with a solo air spring. If everything is compatible, $200 isn't a bad price to pay to get rid of the unnecessary complexity of the 2-air system (I'll probably never end up using it anyways) while also getting a fresh damper and air spring.

 

[kapusta]

Yeah, it seems that parts are pretty rare for the older Lyriks. Getting a used one for parts does look to be pretty expensive for the hassle, it seems that just buying a working used fork and then refreshing it would be a better option.

I actually saw that worldwide cyclery offers some parts for the older Lyirks.

Solo air spring internals: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...2013-lyrik-spring-internals-left-solo-air-170

Mission control DH damper: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...und-damper-mission-control-mission-control-dh

I would think that these both could be installed in a single fork, since one is air side and the other is damper side, but Rockshox's rather confusing list of dampers and air/coil springs from that time make it hard to tell if both of these are compatible. I would guess that a fork with both of these installed would be a solo air fork with mission control DH damping?

Of course, that still raises the question if the 2-air forks are compatible with a solo air spring. If everything is compatible, $200 isn't a bad price to pay to get rid of the unnecessary complexity of the 2-air system (I'll probably never end up using it anyways) while also getting a fresh damper and air spring.

Why would you need the rebound damper? The fork you have already has one. In fact, I am pretty sure it is the same as the one you linked to.

You could probably ask on this forum more specifically about the compatibility of the upper tubes on spring side of the Solo Air and 2-step. I would be interested to know this myself. I might be tempted to try a solo air spring in mine for the simplicity, and also the ability to use volume tokens.

 

[scottzg]

I'm a huge OG lyrik fan. I have 2 of them, one of them has >10,000 miles on it. In rc2dh form it might be the best non-custom fork i've used.

The 2-step forks can be converted to solo air fairly easily. IIRC you need a solo air piston head and top cap? The version of solo air you have isn't known for reliability, but if yours is working... whatever! Regardless, the air spring is pretty easy to rebuild. You'll read old complaints about the air forks being too linear, but really that's just headroom for tuning the compression, and there's room on the damper side to tweak the bottom-out behavior with oil height like an old marzo.

If you install a DH damper you need both the compression and rebound. I've owned a mission control fork with rc2dh compression; it doesn't work right. There is a floodgate removal mod that emulates the rc2dh fairly well. Definitely well enough to suit the speeds a hardtail sees.

The fork has an emulsion damper and the damper oil ages more quickly than in modern forks. Replace it every other lowers service. It's stupid-easy and will make you question sealed dampers.



It's a really good fork. If i were in your shoes i would lube the air spring, remove the floodgate, and replace the bath and damper oil. That's it. At some point in the future it might warrant a rebuild, but if nothing is leaking, no problem. This is a crazy-easy fork to work with/on. It's a pleasure to rebuild or tweak.

 

[kapusta]

The 2-step forks can be converted to solo air fairly easily. IIRC you need a solo air piston head and top cap?

Do you have any insight on the divot in the air tube I was talking about in the solo air? It is something I read once but I was not sure if it applied to all models, or it might have even been for a different solo air fork entirely.

You'll read old complaints about the air forks being too linear, but really that's just headroom for tuning the compression, and there's room on the damper side to tweak the bottom-out behavior with oil height like an old marzo.

Have you tried replacing the top cap with one from a Pike Solo Air and using bottomless tokens?

There is a floodgate removal mod that emulates the rc2dh fairly well. Definitely well enough to suit the speeds a hardtail sees.

I did this. Very simple, and I liked the results.

 

[scottzg]

Do you have any insight on the divot in the air tube I was talking about in the solo air? It is something I read once but I was not sure if it applied to all models, or it might have even been for a different solo air fork entirely.

I performed the conversion on a customer's bike about 10 years ago. I'm going off memory, but i'm almost positive that's what i did. Pikes work how you describe.

Have you tried replacing the top cap with one from a Pike Solo Air and using bottomless tokens?

Yes, but i'm not running any tokens. I put the top cap on cuz i had it. There's a tolerance in the damper oil volume that's sufficient for my needs, and more precise than tokens.

 

[Phoenix864]

I'm a huge OG lyrik fan. I have 2 of them, one of them has >10,000 miles on it. In rc2dh form it might be the best non-custom fork i've used.

The 2-step forks can be converted to solo air fairly easily. IIRC you need a solo air piston head and top cap? The version of solo air you have isn't known for reliability, but if yours is working... whatever! Regardless, the air spring is pretty easy to rebuild. You'll read old complaints about the air forks being too linear, but really that's just headroom for tuning the compression, and there's room on the damper side to tweak the bottom-out behavior with oil height like an old marzo.

If you install a DH damper you need both the compression and rebound. I've owned a mission control fork with rc2dh compression; it doesn't work right. There is a floodgate removal mod that emulates the rc2dh fairly well. Definitely well enough to suit the speeds a hardtail sees.

The fork has an emulsion damper and the damper oil ages more quickly than in modern forks. Replace it every other lowers service. It's stupid-easy and will make you question sealed dampers.

It's a really good fork. If i were in your shoes i would lube the air spring, remove the floodgate, and replace the bath and damper oil. That's it. At some point in the future it might warrant a rebuild, but if nothing is leaking, no problem. This is a crazy-easy fork to work with/on. It's a pleasure to rebuild or tweak.

I've found this for a RS service manual for 2008: http://www.sportgen.ru/files/manuals/rock_shox_manual.pdf. I would assume that this has the information that I would need to rebuild the fork? Everything looks pretty easy, no bleeding - just replacing some seals and oil. Is it really that easy? It looks way easier than the damper service for my DVO Diamond. I would assume I would follow the 'remove lowers step", then "2-air service", before doing the "mission control damper service", and then putting the lowers back on?

I would guess that this is the floodgate mod: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/technical-tuesday-lyric-mod-2010.html. It doesn't look to hard so I'll give it a shot when doing the rebuild.

Would it be best to leave it at just replacing oil, or should I also look into getting some fresh seals as well?

Just in case my fork is not a 2008, does anyone know if there's a good spot to find RS service manuals for 2009 or 2010?

If I were to do the solo air conversion and install fresh seals, I would assume I need the stuff below:

If I were to eventually do the solo air conversion, I would assume I would need this part: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...2013-lyrik-spring-internals-left-solo-air-170.

For the seals for the rebuild - I think I would use these: https://www.jensonusa.com/SKF-Rockshox-Seal-Kit

And finally, I think that this kit has all the remaining seals for the damper: https://www.amazon.com/RockShox-Damper-service-07-09-Lyrik/dp/B0028MSIY8

I'm a bit iffy on the last one - does that cover both damper and air side, or just damper side seals?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[scottzg]

I've found this for a RS service manual for 2008: http://www.sportgen.ru/files/manuals/rock_shox_manual.pdf. I would assume that this has the information that I would need to rebuild the fork? Everything looks pretty easy, no bleeding - just replacing some seals and oil. Is it really that easy? It looks way easier than the damper service for my DVO Diamond. I would assume I would follow the 'remove lowers step", then "2-air service", before doing the "mission control damper service", and then putting the lowers back on?

I would guess that this is the floodgate mod: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/technical-tuesday-lyric-mod-2010.html. It doesn't look to hard so I'll give it a shot when doing the rebuild.

Would it be best to leave it at just replacing oil, or should I also look into getting some fresh seals as well?

Just in case my fork is not a 2008, does anyone know if there's a good spot to find RS service manuals for 2009 or 2010?

If I were to do the solo air conversion and install fresh seals, I would assume I need the stuff below:

If I were to eventually do the solo air conversion, I would assume I would need this part: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/co...2013-lyrik-spring-internals-left-solo-air-170.

For the seals for the rebuild - I think I would use these: https://www.jensonusa.com/SKF-Rockshox-Seal-Kit

And finally, I think that this kit has all the remaining seals for the damper: https://www.amazon.com/RockShox-Damper-service-07-09-Lyrik/dp/B0028MSIY8

I'm a bit iffy on the last one - does that cover both damper and air side, or just damper side seals?

Thanks for the advice.

Not sure about the later service manuals, but i wouldn't worry to much. It really is as easy as it appears. Compared to modern high-end it's confusingly easy. You could just dismantle it, clean, and reassemble, using only the oil volumes and weights chart.

Yep, that's the floodgate mod!

Personally, i don't replace seals unless they're not sliding smoothly or they're leaking. One of my lyriks hasn't been rebuilt in 7000 miles, and you'd never guess. But i service them fairly punctually, and replace the wiper seals every couple years. Actually, that's worth mentioning- the old lyriks originally used a lip seal under the dust seals. They can be replaced with modern RS 35mm foam rings if you so choose. There are advantages and disadvantages.

Yeah, that's a solo air conversion. It's better to use the 160mm version if you're going to shorten the fork.

That seal kit only covers the damper side.

 

[kapusta]

Here is the information I found regarding the dimple in the lowers of the Solo Air:

https://rockshox.zendesk.com/hc/en-...r-fork-to-a-Dual-Position-fork-or-vice-versa-

You can't change a Dual Position Air spring type to Solo Air without changing the CSU (Crown-Steerer-Upper assembly), and the air spring assembly. The Solo Air CSU has a small dimple in the stanchion which allows for air bypass when setting up the air chambers properly in the solo air system. The Dual Position Air CSU has no dimple- a dimple in this CSU would not allow the Dual Position spring to function properly by by-passing air when it shouldn't. So, if changing from a Solo Air version to a Dual Position version and vice versa, you would need the Dual Position internals plus the corresponding CSU to make the swap.

OK, big deal, you have a 2-Step, not a DPA. Well......

Looking at a 2012 parts catalogs (which has listings for both Lyrik 2-Step and Lyrik DPA models in 2010-2012 years), it appears that DPA and 2-Step use the same CSU. Solo Air and Coil use another, and U-turn a third kind (I assume due to the travel gradations on the side of the stanchions).

See page 52: https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/2012_rockshox_spc_rev_c.pdf

The 2010 catalog does not have the DPA, but for 2007-2010, it shows the same part number for all the CSUs for the Solo Air and Coil forks, and a different set of part numbers for the 2-Steps.

Pages 76-83: https://www.cycleservicenordic.com/media/105589/2010-rockshox-spc_rev-c.pdf

Add all of this up together and I would have some reservations about buying the Solo Air spring without first determining for certain that either a) your CSU has the dimple indicated or b) you don't actually need it for a 2007-2010 Solo Air.

OR I would want to know that the FAQ only applies to newer forks. Perhaps DPA or Solo Air has changed in this regard since 2007-2012 models.

 

[Phoenix864]

Good info there - it sounds like it would be best to just start by cleaning the fork up and think about any conversions later.

After watching SRAM's actually very helpful service videos for the damper and the air side, it seems that it seems that I could just remove lowers, replace the outer seals, remove the 2-step cartridge, dump the oil and refill, and then remove the damper top cap and dump its oil and refill. That looks pretty easy.

Scottzg - I know it's normally advised to replace the dampers/air side seals after running them for awhile, but you seem pretty ok with using the same seals as long as they arn't damaged. Would you say it would be advisable to fully disassemble the damper and air side to ensure that everything is in alright shape, or would it be acceptable to just start with a quick oil change?

The RS tech videos are from 2009, they look to be exactly what I'll need to do to get the fork up and running.

Damper:

Air side:

Thanks for all the help - this fork looks to be an absolute gem. Decently tunable and ridiculously easy to service.

 

[scottzg]

Here is the information I found regarding the dimple in the lowers of the Solo Air:

https://rockshox.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...or-vice-versa-

You can't change a Dual Position Air spring type to Solo Air without changing the CSU (Crown-Steerer-Upper assembly), and the air spring assembly. The Solo Air CSU has a small dimple in the stanchion which allows for air bypass when setting up the air chambers properly in the solo air system. The Dual Position Air CSU has no dimple- a dimple in this CSU would not allow the Dual Position spring to function properly by by-passing air when it shouldn't. So, if changing from a Solo Air version to a Dual Position version and vice versa, you would need the Dual Position internals plus the corresponding CSU to make the swap.

OK, big deal, you have a 2-Step, not a DPA. Well......

Looking at a 2012 parts catalogs (which has listings for both Lyrik 2-Step and Lyrik DPA models in 2010-2012 years), it appears that DPA and 2-Step use the same CSU. Solo Air and Coil use another, and U-turn a third kind (I assume due to the travel gradations on the side of the stanchions).

See page 52: https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/..._spc_rev_c.pdf

The 2010 catalog does not have the DPA, but for 2007-2010, it shows the same part number for all the CSUs for the Solo Air and Coil forks, and a different set of part numbers for the 2-Steps.

Pages 76-83: https://www.cycleservicenordic.com/m...-spc_rev-c.pdf

Add all of this up together and I would have some reservations about buying the Solo Air spring without first determining for certain that either a) your CSU has the dimple indicated or b) you don't actually need it for a 2007-2010 Solo Air.

OR I would want to know that the FAQ only applies to newer forks. Perhaps DPA or Solo Air has changed in this regard since 2007-2012 models.

Impressive research!

Regarding zendesk- that's for the current generation of pike/lyrik/etc.

In 2012 the solo air spring designed changed, fwiw. I know the 2012+ solo air spring used a shrader valve at the top of the air piston to equalize the chambers, but i don't recall what the previous version did. Probably the same thing. I'd be shocked if it was a dimple, since i remember doing the conversion and i don't think the dimple was introduced until 2014 or so.

All your looking at the CSUs is identifying which forks have travel adjust and which ones don't. It's because of the printing on the outside.

 

[kapusta]

Impressive research!

Regarding zendesk- that's for the current generation of pike/lyrik/etc.

In 2012 the solo air spring designed changed, fwiw. I know the 2012+ solo air spring used a shrader valve at the top of the air piston to equalize the chambers, but i don't recall what the previous version did. Probably the same thing. I'd be shocked if it was a dimple, since i remember doing the conversion and i don't think the dimple was introduced until 2014 or so.

All your looking at the CSUs is identifying which forks have travel adjust and which ones don't. It's because of the printing on the outside.

Thanks, this answered my question.... it looks like it is the Solo Air that changed. This is good info, as I have pondered trying the Solo Air to replace the DPA spring in my 2013 fork, because I would like to try a less progressive spring rate. What I REALLY want is a u-turn coil assembly, but those are getting really hard to find, and extra springs even harder.

 

[Phoenix864]

Not sure about the later service manuals, but i wouldn't worry to much. It really is as easy as it appears. Compared to modern high-end it's confusingly easy. You could just dismantle it, clean, and reassemble, using only the oil volumes and weights chart.

Yep, that's the floodgate mod!

Personally, i don't replace seals unless they're not sliding smoothly or they're leaking. One of my lyriks hasn't been rebuilt in 7000 miles, and you'd never guess. But i service them fairly punctually, and replace the wiper seals every couple years. Actually, that's worth mentioning- the old lyriks originally used a lip seal under the dust seals. They can be replaced with modern RS 35mm foam rings if you so choose. There are advantages and disadvantages.

Yeah, that's a solo air conversion. It's better to use the 160mm version if you're going to shorten the fork.

That seal kit only covers the damper side.

Thanks for the info - I know it's normally advised to replace the dampers/air side seals after running them for awhile, but you seem pretty ok with using the same seals as long as they arn't damaged. Would you say it would be advisable to fully disassemble the damper and air side to ensure that everything is in alright shape, or would it be acceptable to just start with a quick oil change?

The oil change looks super simple - doing that in addition to the floodgate removal should be a cinch.

 

[scottzg]

Thanks, this answered my question.... it looks like it is the Solo Air that changed. This is good info, as I have pondered trying the Solo Air to replace the DPA spring in my 2013 fork, because I would like to try a less progressive spring rate. What I REALLY want is a u-turn coil assembly, but those are getting really hard to find, and extra springs even harder.

Dude serious. I am running one of mine lowered to 140mm; i'd love to run a coil instead. As i mentioned before, there's a tolerance in the damper fluid volume. It's only a few cc's, but running the minimum oil volume can have a surprising impact on the bottom of the stroke. Basically you need to have the compression piston covered in oil, and no more.

Thanks for the info - I know it's normally advised to replace the dampers/air side seals after running them for awhile, but you seem pretty ok with using the same seals as long as they arn't damaged. Would you say it would be advisable to fully disassemble the damper and air side to ensure that everything is in alright shape, or would it be acceptable to just start with a quick oil change?

The oil change looks super simple - doing that in addition to the floodgate removal should be a cinch.

If you're paying someone to service your fork, yeah, pull it apart and replace the seals. It sucks for the everyone to do a service and then have a problem. DIY.... meh. So long as they slide smoothly and don't leak i don't see the point.

It's worthwhile to pull the air spring so you can grease it properly, but i wouldn't bother on the damper side. Just cycle the rebound a bunch to get the oil out from behind the piston.

Yup, super simple.

 

[Phoenix864]

Dude serious. I am running one of mine lowered to 140mm; i'd love to run a coil instead. As i mentioned before, there's a tolerance in the damper fluid volume. It's only a few cc's, but running the minimum oil volume can have a surprising impact on the bottom of the stroke. Basically you need to have the compression piston covered in oil, and no more.

If you're paying someone to service your fork, yeah, pull it apart and replace the seals. It sucks for the everyone to do a service and then have a problem. DIY.... meh. So long as they slide smoothly and don't leak i don't see the point.

It's worthwhile to pull the air spring so you can grease it properly, but i wouldn't bother on the damper side. Just cycle the rebound a bunch to get the oil out from behind the piston.

Yup, super simple.

I am planning to try servicing it myself - I'll definitely pull apart the 2-air system to check that everything is working alright. If the seals are in good shape I'll leave them be, but if they do need replacement do you know anywhere where I could find them? I found this kit at Worldwide Cyclery for the 2-step air spring, but it costs more than buying an entire new solo air spring: (https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/rockshox-2010-2011-lyrik-new-2-step-air-service-kit). I can't imagine it costs $100 just to refresh a 2-step air spring. The solo air spring costs $88, and has service kits available for less than $30.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[scottzg]

I am planning to try servicing it myself - I'll definitely pull apart the 2-air system to check that everything is working alright. If the seals are in good shape I'll leave them be, but if they do need replacement do you know anywhere where I could find them? I found this kit at Worldwide Cyclery for the 2-step air spring, but it costs more than buying an entire new solo air spring: (https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/rockshox-2010-2011-lyrik-new-2-step-air-service-kit). I can't imagine it costs $100 just to refresh a 2-step air spring. The solo air spring costs $88, and has service kits available for less than $30.

Thanks for all your help.

My forks are solo air; i haven't worked on a 2-step system in 10 years. The fact that it's working is a sufficient indicator the seals are OK to me. I'd just pull the assembly so i could regrease it. Kick that can down the road. I'm on vacation and can't check supplier inventory for seal kits.

 

[Phoenix864]

My forks are solo air; i haven't worked on a 2-step system in 10 years. The fact that it's working is a sufficient indicator the seals are OK to me. I'd just pull the assembly so i could regrease it. Kick that can down the road. I'm on vacation and can't check supplier inventory for seal kits.

Sure, I'll stick with just pulling it and cleaning it up for now. Thanks again.