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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am wondering if the 2007 line up of 7 Point's were checked over by a blind man

1. On the small the forks collide with the frame

2. The rocker arm on the non drive side rubs against the rear triangle as it goes through it's travel.



I have contacted Ska Tod at IH, sent photos, and 5 weeks later still waiting for a result.



DW ? Ska Tod ?

Do you care about your product or is it a case of get them out the door and get the money in ?

:madman:
 

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I have been in contact with your distributor about this a couple weeks ago. He had advised you were informed of the leadtime for receiving warranty parts. Please check with him on this.

-ska todd
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ska todd said:
I have been in contact with your distributor about this a couple weeks ago. He had advised you were informed of the leadtime for receiving warranty parts. Please check with him on this.

-ska todd
and still waiting, lead time on warranty parts :madman:

step 1: Get parts off a production bike

step 2: Send them

step 3: Take care of customers with faulty bikes
 

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Not encouraging

The quality control issues of IH bikes have well documented on this forum. I was hoping the IH got the message and been a little more careful with the 07 models. I'm still hoping that, and hoping that your case is a fluke. But criminy, if it turns out that they released a bunch of product with similar problems, it's gonna make it hard to stay loyal to this brand, DWL notwithstanding.
 

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Appendage said:
The quality control issues of IH bikes have well documented on this forum. I was hoping the IH got the message and been a little more careful with the 07 models. I'm still hoping that, and hoping that your case is a fluke. But criminy, if it turns out that they released a bunch of product with similar problems, it's gonna make it hard to stay loyal to this brand, DWL notwithstanding.
This issue exists only on about 5 total small 7POINT frames, all of which were supposed to be returned to the frame factory and have new frames sent out.

If you would like a job travelling to Iron Horse's factories in Asia and USA, inspecting and documenting every single frame that comes off of every production line you should drop todd an e-mail. Right now Iron Horse relies on their factories and their in-house quatly control departments to build product to spec after samples have been confirmed through a scrutineering process, mechanical testing, and ride testing. This is the norm for every company that I have ever heard of. Sometimes people make mistakes. I do not like it, but as someone who has built a LOT of different things, inside bikes, but mostly outside of bikes, that is something that you have to deal with and try to correct as it happens. No manufacturing operation is ever perfect. EVER.

No matter how detailed a print, regardless of the tolerances that are applied and how much engineering work went into it, manufacturing is not a constant process. The problem on these 5 7POINTS, is on a part that the factory has built correctly several thousand times over the past few years. They messed up 5 of them. I am sorry that the parts got to a customer, but I have no control or input whatsoever over that.

It can be very frustrating...

Dave
 

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_dw said:
This issue exists only on about 5 total small 7POINT frames, all of which were supposed to be returned to the frame factory and have new frames sent out.

No matter how detailed a print, regardless of the tolerances that are applied and how much engineering work went into it, manufacturing is not a constant process. The problem on these 5 7POINTS, is on a part that the factory has built correctly several thousand times over the past few years. They messed up 5 of them. I am sorry that the parts got to a customer, but I have no control or input whatsoever over that.

It can be very frustrating...

Dave
Yes, we live in an imperfect world. Mistakes happen all the time. I don't think anybody expects IH to be any different. The real question, though, to me, is: Did BW end up getting taken care of? From his posts it sounds as if his distributor is not doing much for him.
 

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5 out of several thousand ain't bad, but...

...I was not referring to occasional hiccups in the production process. I understand that's going to happen. As I mentioned, I was hoping that BW's case was exactly that, and am glad to hear that it is (although that doesn't help him any).

I was referring to poor quality built into a bike as a result poor component selection, inadequate testing, etc. The problems with the 05 MkIII were not due (primarily) to an imperfect production process. It was simply a product that was rushed to market too quickly. Well worth the trouble it took to get it right, though. In fact, Mark the Third and I are off on another adventure right now!

_dw said:
This issue exists only on about 5 total small 7POINT frames, all of which were supposed to be returned to the frame factory and have new frames sent out.

If you would like a job travelling to Iron Horse's factories in Asia and USA, inspecting and documenting every single frame that comes off of every production line you should drop todd an e-mail. Right now Iron Horse relies on their factories and their in-house quatly control departments to build product to spec after samples have been confirmed through a scrutineering process, mechanical testing, and ride testing. This is the norm for every company that I have ever heard of. Sometimes people make mistakes. I do not like it, but as someone who has built a LOT of different things, inside bikes, but mostly outside of bikes, that is something that you have to deal with and try to correct as it happens. No manufacturing operation is ever perfect. EVER.

No matter how detailed a print, regardless of the tolerances that are applied and how much engineering work went into it, manufacturing is not a constant process. The problem on these 5 7POINTS, is on a part that the factory has built correctly several thousand times over the past few years. They messed up 5 of them. I am sorry that the parts got to a customer, but I have no control or input whatsoever over that.

It can be very frustrating...

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
_dw said:
This issue exists only on about 5 total small 7POINT frames, all of which were supposed to be returned to the frame factory and have new frames sent out.

If you would like a job travelling to Iron Horse's factories in Asia and USA, inspecting and documenting every single frame that comes off of every production line you should drop todd an e-mail. Right now Iron Horse relies on their factories and their in-house quatly control departments to build product to spec after samples have been confirmed through a scrutineering process, mechanical testing, and ride testing. This is the norm for every company that I have ever heard of. Sometimes people make mistakes. I do not like it, but as someone who has built a LOT of different things, inside bikes, but mostly outside of bikes, that is something that you have to deal with and try to correct as it happens. No manufacturing operation is ever perfect. EVER.

No matter how detailed a print, regardless of the tolerances that are applied and how much engineering work went into it, manufacturing is not a constant process. The problem on these 5 7POINTS, is on a part that the factory has built correctly several thousand times over the past few years. They messed up 5 of them. I am sorry that the parts got to a customer, but I have no control or input whatsoever over that.

It can be very frustrating...

Dave
Then maybe you can explain to me the problem with the non drive side rocker arm colliding with the rear triangle as it goes through it's travel.

I have in my store

2 x 7.5 that share the same problem

1 x 6.6 that has the same problem

1 x sachem 4.0 with play in the hardware (same as the warrior last year)

1 x warrior 6.0 with play in the hardware (same as last year)

This is out of a total of 10 bikes i purchased.

If you would like a job travelling to Iron Horse's factories in Asia and USA, inspecting and documenting every single frame that comes off of every production line you should drop todd an e-mail.
I have already offered my services, i have 2 years experience fixing and diagnosing your
poor quality bikes.

Last season it was the dw link you had to redesign because as it went through it's travel it hit the bottom of the shock and bent the lower shock mounting hardware.

You released the red dw link as an upgrade when really it was a fix for the original which was machined wrong.

The list goes on and on....
 

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Bike Whore said:
Last season it was the dw link you had to redesign because as it went through it's travel it hit the bottom of the shock and bent the lower shock mounting hardware.
On what bike?

And the red link (for the Sunday) was to allow clearance for a Fox DHX.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dogboy said:
On what bike?

And the red link (for the Sunday) was to allow clearance for a Fox DHX.
that was to pull the wool over your eyes :thumbsup:

the original link was incorrectly made and hit the bottom of the shock as it went through it's travel bending the bottom shock hardware, and the red was the "fix"

it's easier to say this is an upgrade than saying we stuffed up the link.
 

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I did not own a 2005 Sunday, so I can't speak to the validity of your claim - although I will say that I have never heard that claim before. I will say that I had a 2006 Sunday with zero issues and I'm on a 2007 Sunday now.
 

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Bike Whore said:
that was to pull the wool over your eyes :thumbsup:

the original link was incorrectly made and hit the bottom of the shock as it went through it's travel bending the bottom shock hardware, and the red was the "fix"

it's easier to say this is an upgrade than saying we stuffed up the link.
What are you talking about???

The 2006 DHX link and the 2005 5th element link are the EXACT SAME FORGING. They came off the same exact forging tool, a 400 lb piece of hardened steel, with the only difference being that the red links were machined to fit a DHX. Otherwise there is literally zero difference. The color was made red so Iron Horse could tell the difference apart in pictures from shops and customers.

Not sure where you were going with the link bending a shock causing some hardware damage. I haven't seen that before, and that's with 6 very good test riders giving constant feedback. THe 07 links are designed to reduce weight, use the 10mm hardware standard, and look sweet / refreshing. You should believe in a conspiracy theory though. Its much more dramatic that way...

I'm not a spokesman for Iron Horse, but it sounds to me like you should consider another option, becuase if you are a dealer and coming online to a bike chatroom complain about the product that you yourself are trying to sell, it just doesn't seem right. Thats just my personal opinion though. I guess I'd just go about things in a different way.

Good luck with your issues. I wish you the best.
 

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Chris2fur said:
Yes, we live in an imperfect world. Mistakes happen all the time. I don't think anybody expects IH to be any different. The real question, though, to me, is: Did BW end up getting taken care of? From his posts it sounds as if his distributor is not doing much for him.
Sounds like he did not get taken care of, but I don't really know. I am just a contracted engineer, I live on an island 350 miles away from the IH office.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
_dw said:
What are you talking about???

The 2006 DHX link and the 2005 5th element link are the EXACT SAME FORGING. They came off the same exact forging tool, a 400 lb piece of hardened steel, with the only difference being that the red links were machined to fit a DHX. Otherwise there is literally zero difference. The color was made red so Iron Horse could tell the difference apart in pictures from shops and customers.

Not sure where you were going with the link bending a shock causing some hardware damage. I haven't seen that before, and that's with 6 very good test riders giving constant feedback. THe 07 links are designed to reduce weight, use the 10mm hardware standard, and look sweet / refreshing. You should believe in a conspiracy theory though. Its much more dramatic that way...

I'm not a spokesman for Iron Horse, but it sounds to me like you should consider another option, becuase if you are a dealer and coming online to a bike chatroom complain about the product that you yourself are trying to sell, it just doesn't seem right. Thats just my personal opinion though. I guess I'd just go about things in a different way.

Good luck with your issues. I wish you the best.
Regard to the dw link used with the 5th element, the dw link would come into contact with
the bottom of the 5th element shock, when it did it put a lot of force onto the lower shock hardware and bend the pins and damage the bottom of the shock body.

the fix i was sent was the same link with cut outs on it to bypass the 5th element shock body.These cut outs were still not enough to bypass the shock and we had to file out a further 5 mm either side for clearance.

the only "fix" if running the stock shock (the 5th element) was the red link

This is the only way i can get light on the issues as i have taken pics last season and this
and sent emails and had very poor service and half assed "fixes"

This year it is the rocker arms rubbing against the rear triangle as it goes through it's travel.
 

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Ryan,

As has been noted to you directly before, these issue are being resolved. Please contact your distributor Flo Cycles for updates and for all communications directly with Iron Horse.

The issue at hand regarding downtube contact affects one size of frame (small) for frames that have already been shipped (1 in total...to NZ...you have it!). All of the other small frames were being held in Taiwan or at distributors until new lower race was completed. Getting new parts made in Taiwan will generally take 45 days MINIMUM.

For the swingarm contact issue, as was discussed w/ Flo Cycles, the use of a <1mm washer will fix this problem in the short term. New swing arms with corrected bearing bore tolerance (we're talking less than .33mm) are in production and will be shipped to distributor as soon as they are available. This issue does not affect bikes shipped to other destinations from what we know as the NZ bikes came from a separate short production.

-ska todd
 

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I'll do it!

_dw said:
If you would like a job travelling to Iron Horse's factories in Asia and USA, inspecting and documenting every single frame that comes off of every production line you should drop todd an e-mail.
Dave
Hey, that sounds great, would I get to do test rides? I'd be into that, and I think asian chicks are hot, so that would be great too.

Call me Todd!

Don
 

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This may be the wrong thread, but since it is fresh I'm going to post and see where it goes. I have a '99 G-Out with a lot of play in the rear triangle due to wore parts on the lower pivot point. I tried contacting IH a few times, and as soon as they saw an upset customer I never receive any other replies or fixes for my problem. I keep the bike for sentimental reasons and would like it to function the way it should.
 

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Hey Bike Whore- Sorry you are having problems with IH. I would also like to thank you for pointing out flaws in their bikes. I value as much knowledge as possible when making an expensive bike purchase.

With that said, TODD (and the good people at Iron Horse) should be commended on TRYING to make things right! TRYING to make the customer happy! TRYING to improve their products. LISTENING to what IH riders want (ie. 07 MKIII geometry/07 6points) ........ and then producing them!

I too had a minor customer service issue. Todd BENT OVER BACKWARDS to fix the problem. I forgot to mention, he was 3,000 miles from the office at the time! Thanks Todd! I won't forget!

All I am trying to say is the guy is trying!
 
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