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Slovakia (Europe)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for new brakes, more powerful than my current 2006 Hope M4 (those in the picture), 180/160 mm rotors. I'm 83 kg w/o gear and in steep descents there's not enough power to stop me safely. I never boiled them, they never faded, but sometimes I feel lack of maximal power.
I would prefer Hope over other brands (e.g. Formula The One) due to simple maintenance, reliability, modulation and pretty nice look. I also consider Tech V2 with 180/180 rotors, but they are a bit heavy for my quite light build. Can anybody compare those Mono M4 with latest Tech M4 from the point of maximal stopping power? SteveUK, any experience or advice?
 

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Double-metric mtb man
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I'm a 100kg+ rider running '06 M4's (203/180) and have gobs of power, even at the local bike park. I've got friends who had M4's in the past but didn't feel they made enough power...until they have tried mine and just about endo'd when they grabbed a little brake.

I've found that they are quite finicky to set up, but I spent a little extra time on mine (I'm a perfectionist, I know it) and they have been absolutely golden. I can one-finger lock up front and rear on bare asphalt, even with my generous weight.

If you need more oomph, a rotor and couple adaptors are cheap compared to a totally new system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for your reply. I'm a perfectionist too ;) , so no doubts about brake setup and bleeding. It's curious, that some riders from this forum have the same experience as you have (e.g. SteveUK) and some others feel lack of power like me (e.g. Krolik).
I was also thinking about larger rotors and adaptors, but new Tech levers look beautifully.
 

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Switching to 200/180 should allow the M4 to perform as it should for somebody of your weight, and, as Mike has already said, can be tried for the price of a 200mm* rotor and a couple of +20mm adaptors.

How much have you played around with the lever throw, Peter? Even a quarter turn of the adjuster can move the lever far enough to transform the feel of the brake. I notice from the picture in your OP that the brass barrel is set quite low on the adjuster pin. This is going to position the lever quite close to the bar - a position best suited to those with smaller hand or fingers.



*If your front caliper is IS then it's the 200mm rotor you'll need, not the 203mm. Just a minor detail.
 

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PeterG your brakes look great, the new ones might be better but I do like the red and black.

Steve what do you mean by the brass barrel being set low? In my eyes I don't see how it could go any higher without interfering with the pivot bolt. Here's a picture of my levers before install and you can see where the brass barrel is. I have quite large hands/fingers. If I push the lever blade to its upper highest position and then tighten the pivot bolt I get a knocking sound which isn't smooth before it engages the fluid/bite point so I've had to set it a few mm's lower than it's highest point. But if anyone knows where I'm going wrong please let me know as it's less than ideal having the lever blades closer, even though it's only a few mm's.



I added one 0.1mm shim/washer to stable each lever blade so maybe this washer is stopping the blade from sitting at it's highest point. Anyone got some pointers? Hopefully my pic helps.
 

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"Steve what do you mean by the brass barrel being set low?"

The further up (as in away from the MC) the brass barrel sits on the adjuster pin, the further out from the bars the lever is positioned. You have the opposite set-up on your lever, where the adjuster pin would appear to be either flush with the brass barrel or even slightly inside. On Mike's lever, the brass barrel is positioned quite a long way down the pin...

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In my experience, such a set-up would result in the bite point being felt much too close to the bar/grip to equate to good braking leverage.
 

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FWIW, even when I was using the M4 in the front and briefly all around, it was fine on 183's for my weight (I ride at over 100kg with equipment). Sorry to say, but I wish I was down to 83kg to ride! That's not heavy for these brakes.

I would imagine the suggestions for a 200 rotor would be valid. I also run a V2 203 vented up front. It wasn't because I really needed it, but I happened across a good deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
SteveUK said:
Switching to 200/180 should allow the M4 to perform as it should for somebody of your weight, and, as Mike has already said, can be tried for the price of a 200mm* rotor and a couple of +20mm adaptors.
I was looking for 200mm saw red floating rotor, but haven't found any (neither at CRC nor at Wiggle), I've found only 203mm ones. That's why I couldn't try this setup.

SteveUK said:
How much have you played around with the lever throw, Peter? Even a quarter turn of the adjuster can move the lever far enough to transform the feel of the brake. I notice from the picture in your OP that the brass barrel is set quite low on the adjuster pin. This is going to position the lever quite close to the bar - a position best suited to those with smaller hand or fingers.
For 1 finger braking I always set the lever position so that if the forefinger is straighten, I reach the lever exactly with the 1st knuckle-bone of the finger to catch the lever safely. When the lever is fully depressed, there still remains 23mm* (rear) and 30mm* (front) gap between lever and handlebar grip. I'm not sure, whether the lever on the picture is already set or not, because I took the picture immediately after upgrade of the brakes. Note please, that I used carbon levers, that are ca. 10 mm shorter then alu ones, but also with ca. 1mm smaller pivot to brass barrel axis distance. That makes a bit smaller leverage, but also with original levers the stopping power wasn't sufficient.

* - rear brake is softer then the front one and that can't be set

SteveUK said:
*If your front caliper is IS then it's the 200mm rotor you'll need, not the 203mm. Just a minor detail.
Of course I noticed that. Front caliper is No. 3 (IS 180mm), rear is the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
chinaman said:
i have a sneaking suspicion :skep: you have already decided to get the tech m4 but is only trying to find a reason ... hmm :winker:
Good observation ;) , nothing secret (see the first sentence of the 1st post), just wanted to be sure, that they are more powerful that Mono M4 :) ...
 

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Double-metric mtb man
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Jerk_Chicken said:
FWIW, even when I was using the M4 in the front and briefly all around, it was fine on 183's for my weight (I ride at over 100kg with equipment). Sorry to say, but I wish I was down to 83kg to ride! That's not heavy for these brakes.

I would imagine the suggestions for a 200 rotor would be valid. I also run a V2 203 vented up front. It wasn't because I really needed it, but I happened across a good deal.
I am in the same boat...the 180 would likely have been enough for me, but the 200 was what they had. Even at the local bike park, I can get the M4's hot enough that they are pinging but they still have plenty o' power. I did the upgrade as my previous brake was not enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
UK-FLATLANDER said:
Out of interest where did you get your carbon levers? I was under the impression that the newer Hope ones wouldn't fit.
They fit, but you also need new 6mm dia. brass barrel (mine is DIY on lathe, the original one is 8mm) and some very thin sliding shims on the pivot for smooth lever blade movement w/o play are recommended too. I got them on eBay.
 
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