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Bnerd
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lots of words and pics.

So, I am now going to add my impressions about the Knolly DT on an already overfilled forum of DT loving!

These impressions are my opinions and, as such, you can take what you would like from them.

A little info about myself and about my DT. I am 6'6" and 240ish lbs with gear. My DT is a large and is built up as more of a pedalable freeride bike. My DT weighs in at a little over 42lbs. Suspension duties are taken by a 66ATA fork and a DHX5 coil shock. My riding area is Whistler and the surrounding areas. I also am a coach in the bike park.
I have been riding the DT for two months with approximately seven days off the bike. And, as stated previously, I have ridden this bike everywhere in the Sea to Sky corridor (Whistler and Bike Park, Squamish, Pemberton, North Shore) as well as a seven day trip to Vancouver Island (Victoria, Sooke, Duncan, Cumberland)

Overall I am very happy with the ride and performance of the bike. All of the previous reviews and info about the DT are spot on with how solid the frame is and how well it pedals. And how it handles everthing from mellow pedals to crazy gnar lines. I definitely agree with all that info.

I am stoked about the head angle and the wheelbase adjustability that is available to me on this bike! The fork, 66ATA, with its adjustable travel compliments the bike very well. I can set the bike up to how and where I am going to ride.

In the park it is in the slackest position with the longest wheelbase. It is very stable at speed and is stable when in the air. I am somewhat suprised at how well I can jump this bike. I say this because when I first started riding it the back end of the bike felt heavier than the front of the bike. But after the first couple of jumps and drops on the DT that feeling went away and now it is just me, the rider, trying to figure out technique to do fancier tricks while jumping and dropping!
In the park the bike feels super solid under me. I have cracked and broken a few other bikes riding in the park. The DT feels indestuctable compared to those other bikes. Not that those other bikes were bad. There is no frame flex that I can detect and rear suspension is buttery smooth. There was a day in the park that I thought I felt some back end frame flex but it turns out that I needed to put more air in my rear tire. The tire was giving a wobbly feeling when I was preloading for jumps. Remeber I am a big guy!

When I am riding the DT on a pedaling ride I set the head angle to the middle setting and bring the wheelbase in either half way or to the shortest setting possible. I have pedaled with the HA setting at the steepest setting but I find the middle setting is best for what I ride outside of the park. The way I use the fork is to bring it to its lowest travel (140mm) for pedaling up and then raising it to its highest travel (180mm) for the down. Every now and then I will leave the travel at its lowest setting for the entire ride but my thought is I have the availability of all this travel so why not use it! (Why didn't Marz keep the 66ETA?!) As for the wheelbase settings I do like the shortest length for pedaling up, super tech trails and railing through corners but I find that when I get moving at a fast speed the short wheelbase makes the bike want to bounce around through the bumps/chop/chunder. So, I have been playing with the wheelbase lengths for pedaling to find a good middle ground to get the attributes for climbing and tech as well as for handling speed. It would seem the setting is somewhere around the middle.

There is one small issue that arose because of changing the wheelbase. The button head screws (or are they called bolts?) for the sliding dropouts stripped. I had read on a previous post of that happening so I was careful about loosening and tightening these screws but eventually they stripped out. This happened a day before my week long bike trip to Vancouver Island. When I contacted Noel he was very helpful in giving me the info I need to find replacement screws quickly. He even offered to mail me some. But I lucked out and found some at Canadian Tire in Squamish on the way to the ferry. The bonus is I now have screws that are a matching colour to my frame! Yes, I am a bike nerd! The new screws are the 6mm socket head type so there is much more puchase for the hex wrench.

I am not going to lie and say that I don't feel the weight of the bike when I am pedaling. Because I do feel the weight on extended climbs. Yes, I could have a lighter build but then I would be worried about those components giving out on me at the wrong time (is there ever a right time for things to break?). I am a tall and heavy person so all my bike builds are somewhat if not totally burly. The DT is my do everything bike - bike park and pedaling. Overall though I can't say it has taken any enjoyment out of my pedaling expereince. The weight is something that I am very much willing to over look. Here is a little rant: Why is the DH world now so obsessed with trying to get weights down to XC levels of weights? I understand that there isn't a need for bikes to be like tanks but when the weights are starting to be listed at 36lbs for a DH complete bike I feel, as a heavy giant, that I probably would destroy some of those bikes riding them in the park! And not because I am a hack.

The DT does pedal very well. I have been adjusting the propedal setting on the shock for when I am in the park (no propedal) and when I am pedaling (between 1 and 5 clicks). I find that I can run the propedal at 1 or 2 clicks for pedaling and have no real pedal bob happening. The DT pedals very well!

I have one other issue that has recently arisen. I realize that it is not directly related to the DT but aren't bikes the sum of their parts? My 66ATA has started to leak oil into the PAR chamber which is making the fork feel stiffer than it should. Up until this point in my history of using Marz forks I have never had an issue. Even with last year's forks! It is very disappointing. I know I should get it looked at right away but that would mean I won't have a bike to ride. And seeing that my job requires a bike I am somewhat at a loss as to how to sort this situation out.
I understand that Knolly is a separate company completely and I still have the utmost faith in Knolly but as I stated earlier I feel that a bike is the sum of its parts. Because if those parts don't work then the bike as a whole doesn't work. My feellings toward Marz definitely colours my opinion because I do have a history with Marz running back a few years. I was using the WC Rocco for three seasons - a new one every season - which promptly blew up on me. Every summer I would get them 'fixed' by Tom from Marz when he showed up at Crankworx or sent to Marz in North Van but that did not seem to work.

I would like to give mad props to Bryan at Knolly for his wheel building skills. Correct me if I am wrong Bryan but when I spoke with you before I picked up my DT on May 1 you told me you were building my wheels up. The build is amazing! I have ridden the DT hard as any bike should be ridden! I have jumped it, dropped it and ridden it through roots and rock gardens. The wheels have stayed very true. Currently the wheels do need a very slight trueing but it is unbelievable that they are still running straight after a guy of my size has thrashed them as I have! If you have any extra time outside of working for Knolly I would suggest starting a business as a wheelsmith!

To sum up, my overall impression of the DT is great! The bike delivers everything that is promised of it. It pedals uphill very well and holds its own in the craziest of line choices! Riding the DT has given me the confidence to push my skills to the next step. I realize that where I am at it is mostly a mind game of confidence but I feel that because I have great confidence in the DT that it is helping me push my riding.

I will leave you with some photos from my trip on Vancouver Island. My SO is also going to be included even though she rides a Kona Minxy. I do realize this is a Knolly forum but she deserves props no matter the forum. She rides almost all the stuff I ride and she is definitely better than me at the elevated skinnies! When we ride she lets me ride the gnar stuff first so she can pick the better line and make it look way smoother than I do!

My SO rolling a steep rock face at Hartland outside of Victoria
Bicycle wheel Mountain bike Bicycle wheel rim Bicycle Bicycle tire

Me rolling a rock face at Broom Hill in Sooke
Clothing Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel Helmet Mountain bike

My SO hitting a gap at Broom Hill
Clothing Bicycle wheel Tire Bicycle frame Wheel

My SO hitting a drop at the Zoo in Duncan
Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel Mountain bike Natural environment Downhill mountain biking

Me hitting a drop at the Zoo
Bicycle wheel Bicycle frame Mountain bike Natural environment Mountain biking

Me cornering in Cumberland
Bicycle frame Tire Bicycle wheel Wheel Helmet

Me dropping at the Zoo
Tire Wheel Bicycle wheel Bicycle frame Mountain bike

Riding an elevated bridge at the Zoo
Natural environment Forest Trail Wilderness Trunk

My SO dropping at the Zoo
Clothing Bicycle frame Mountain bike Bicycle wheel Bicycle helmet

And two of the best things in life. Although, my SO is way better than these will ever be!
Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel rim Fluid Drinkware Bicycle part
 

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That's a great review and looks like your SO hits it harder than most guys do. It's interesting to hear how other riders are setting the bike up for where they ride. I too went to canuck tire and got some black M6 bolts to replace the ones that strip easily. Black bolts on a black frame is a subtle detail that looks nice.
 

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Wow - nice work on the Talisker 18yo! Unfortunately due to production shortages, it is starting to become a hard whisky to find these days which is a shame because it's one of the absolute best bottles on the market!

Thank you for all of the comments and I'm glad that you're stoked on your DT - hopefully we'll see you in Whistler soon!

Cheers!
 

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shh. don't tell the wife
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After months of riding, dialing adjustment knobs, waiting for the snow to melt and getting enough saddle time to write a real review I have to say that I'm unbelievably impressed with my DT (specs are all posted in the DT build thread).

I'm 200lbs, 6'4" and spend most of my time riding with a masochistic 150lb Scottsman that has a predilection for "interesting climbs" (read = death ascents). This was fine when I was an XC guy, but after a week in Whistler last year I knew that FR was for me this year.

First, the DT as a climbing bike. Yes, once you sort out your Propedal it will climb. It will climb at as steady a pace as you can manage but don't kid yourself. A big bike, with coils, big wheels and big tyres ain't no Ferrari of hill climbing. Still, if you have the heart and lungs for it, it won't let you down.

Now, going down. This bike is exactly as promised. It is stable, solid and fast without feeling like a heavy straight line bike. It will respond to minute rider inputs and help you get out of, or into as much trouble as you want :D

I'm amazed at how I've been able to go from being a dedicated XC rider to someone that's hitting 5'-6' gaps and looking good while doing it. Its like the DT wants to rail berms and eat air on its own and I'm just lucky enough to be along for the ride.

I love that I don't have to think about the bike. If I man up and commit to whatever the trail throws at me I know my DT will be there for me and as long as I don't point the front tire at a tree or grab a fistful of front brake all will be well.

This isn't the most eloquent of reviews but it doesn't have to be. The DT's truth is in the ride. All you have to do is listen.
 

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Bnerd
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Once you start typing...

There is always more to add! I have a 'few' more observations to add to my already lengthy review.

I have seen posted many times on this forum the issue of sizing. I am a tall person. 6'6" tall and, I feel, well proportioned! I don't have massively long legs and super short arms! Everything looks good ;) ! (I thought I was never going to use a smiley but there it is!!)

I chose a large DT frame because of the type of riding I do. I pedal but to get to what, I guess, is termed as freeride trails and ride in the bike park in Whistler regularly. The large is a great size for what and how I ride. I was concerned with the length of the stem initially (50mm - this is the shortest stem I have ever used) but after riding everything I normally ride as well as newer trails the cockpit is a very good fit size wise. Yes, my seat towers over the bars when it is a pedaling height but on every bike I have owned that has been the case.
If I was going to be a bike for full on pedaling I would have bought an Endo! I like the smaller size because I can make handle exactly how I need the DT to handle. I did do a parking lot test ride of an XL frame size DT but the bike felt just too big. I think XL size would be good if I was going to more of trail pedaler but then, as I said, why wouldn't I have got the Endo?

One other small issue has happened in the time I have had the DT. The Chromag bars that I have, the black with all the fancy white graphics, has lost almost all of its graphics. This started two weeks into riding the bike. I sent off an email to Ian Ritz at Chromag and he told me that I could swap out the bar at no charge for a new one in July. He told me that the new run of bars with the large amount of graphics was having issues with holding the graphics. The next run of bars should have the issue sorted.

Also my seat post is scratched liked crazy because there were some metal burrs in the seat tube where the top tube meets the seat tube. I managed to lightly file the burrs down (it was moderately hard work to figure something out to reach that far down the seat tube) so now the seat post slides smoothly. But the aesthetic damage has been done.

I have also changed a few things on my DT. I went for white cable housing to add a little bling to the white fork sliders (I removed the stickers on the fork). And my next purchase will be white Kona WahWah pedals. This will add to the white highlights!
I also switched, briefly, my rear tire. Originally I had Minion DHR's on the back. I was 'luckily' handed the new WTB 2.3 Dissents to ride. I put the new tire on the back because riding the park regularly wears the rear tire very quickly. The 2.3 Dissent is an okay tire for the park but it really shines in the pedally freeride stuff outside of the park. However, after pinch flatting the rear tire three times in a week in the Dissent has now come back off! I found for riding in the park I needed the Dissent to be inflated to a very high pressure to not pinch flat which negated any of the performance properties it had. Namely, grip! The 2.3 Dissent is rated as a DH/Freeride tire on the WTB site. I think they should reevaluate the rating they give this tire. I beleive the single ply side walls are not doing this tire any favours! So, the Minion DHR's have gone back on.

The last picture with the DT and the Talisker is a homage to the single malt drinkers in the Knolly world. I am a big fan of single malts. I don't have a solid favourite yet but the Talisker is one as well as the 16 year old Lagavulin. I don't know if this would be considered sacrilege in the whisky sipping world but I am now branching out into North American ryes and bourbons. There are definitely a few I have tried that are worth trying again.

Now, for more pictures! Here are some shots from a night ride that my SO and I did a couple of weeks ago here in Whistler. The trails are referred to as the Zappa trails.

My SO riding some bridge work
Light Darkness Midnight

Me on a rock roll
Darkness Light

Me and the moon
Night Atmosphere White Darkness Atmospheric phenomenon

Me on a rock roll
Green Atmosphere Light Darkness Space
 

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shh. don't tell the wife
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RideEverything said:
The last picture with the DT and the Talisker is a homage to the single malt drinkers in the Knolly world. I am a big fan of single malts. I don't have a solid favourite yet but the Talisker is one as well as the 16 year old Lagavulin. I don't know if this would be considered sacrilege in the whisky sipping world but I am now branching out into North American ryes and bourbons. There are definitely a few I have tried that are worth trying again.
For Scotch have you tried Highland Park or Auchentoshan? Those are probably my 2 favourite single malts.
 

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Bnerd
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
jitenshakun said:
For Scotch have you tried Highland Park or Auchentoshan? Those are probably my 2 favourite single malts.
Yes, I have tried a 12yo Highland Park. Very enjoyable! I am also partial to Macallan but the Lagavulin and Talisker are my faves.

Oops, I seem to be derailing my own thread!
 

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Outcast
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"My 66ATA has started to leak oil into the PAR chamber "

RideEverything, there is a simple fix for that. The PAR piston has an inner and outer O-ring; they need to be replaced. You can call marzocchi for replacements.
 

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Bnerd
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Renegade said:
"My 66ATA has started to leak oil into the PAR chamber "

RideEverything, there is a simple fix for that. The PAR piston has an inner and outer O-ring; they need to be replaced. You can call marzocchi for replacements.
Thanks for the info. Although, I don't have the space - no indoor workshop - to do the repairs myself. Nor do I have the confidence to pull the fork apart and put it back together again without messing something up.
So, I believe my option is limited to either bringing the fork directly to Marz in North Van or shipping to Marz. Driving would be cheaper but a little harder to organize.
 

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Hi there,
it seems that some people chose a smaller size for their DT frame....:skep:
perhaps an M would fit me well with my 6'2" height instead of an L....:madman:

Steve, from France.
 

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Bnerd
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
pit said:
Hi there,
it seems that some people chose a smaller size for their DT frame....:skep:
perhaps an M would fit me well with my 6'2" height instead of an L....:madman:

Steve, from France.
Sorry, I can't answer your question or make your decision for you. I made my choice of frame size based on how, what and where I ride. As well I did a parking lot demo ride of an XL size and felt the large would be the best choice. Lo and behold it was!
 

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pit said:
Hi there,
it seems that some people chose a smaller size for their DT frame....:skep:
perhaps an M would fit me well with my 6'2" height instead of an L....:madman:

Steve, from France.
You might email Knolly this question for an official answer, but I am 5'8" and ride a medium with a 60mm stem and find it fits me very well. The M might be a little small for you.
 

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pit said:
Hi there,
it seems that some people chose a smaller size for their DT frame....:skep:
perhaps an M would fit me well with my 6'2" height instead of an L....:madman:

Steve, from France.
I think you're a candidate for a large--unless you are only using it as a park bike and want something to throw around a little easier. The large will fit you better when climbing, and the frame is quite "small" with the seat dropped.

K (5' 11" on a large).
 

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pit said:
Hi there,
it seems that some people chose a smaller size for their DT frame....:skep:
perhaps an M would fit me well with my 6'2" height instead of an L....:madman:

Steve, from France.
Hi Steve:

Rest assured that you are on the correctly sized frame. As Kristian mentioned, the only reason to ride a medium would be if you intentionally wanted to ride a smaller frame for strictly park or dirt jump riding. However, at 6'2" tall you should be a textbook large frame fit and you would find a medium frame too cramped for pedaling and it probably wouldn't be possible to get enough seat post extension. Additionally, I'm also 6'2" and the large frame was more or less designed to fit me :)

If you have any other questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Cheers!
 

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knollybikes.com said:
Hi Steve:

Rest assured that you are on the correctly sized frame. As Kristian mentioned, the only reason to ride a medium would be if you intentionally wanted to ride a smaller frame for strictly park or dirt jump riding. However, at 6'2" tall you should be a textbook large frame fit and you would find a medium frame too cramped for pedaling and it probably wouldn't be possible to get enough seat post extension. Additionally, I'm also 6'2" and the large frame was more or less designed to fit me :)

If you have any other questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Cheers!
Thanks a lot Noel :thumbsup:
i just didn't want to make a mistake in my choice....

Best regards,

Steve.
 

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'All over it!'
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Excellent review.....

RideEverything said:
Lots of words and pics.

So, I am now going to add my impressions about the Knolly DT on an already overfilled forum of DT loving!

These impressions are my opinions and, as such, you can take what you would like from them.

A little info about myself and about my DT. I am 6'6" and 240ish lbs with gear. My DT is a large and is built up as more of a pedalable freeride bike. My DT weighs in at a little over 42lbs. Suspension duties are taken by a 66ATA fork and a DHX5 coil shock. My riding area is Whistler and the surrounding areas. I also am a coach in the bike park.
I have been riding the DT for two months with approximately seven days off the bike. And, as stated previously, I have ridden this bike everywhere in the Sea to Sky corridor (Whistler and Bike Park, Squamish, Pemberton, North Shore) as well as a seven day trip to Vancouver Island (Victoria, Sooke, Duncan, Cumberland)

Overall I am very happy with the ride and performance of the bike. All of the previous reviews and info about the DT are spot on with how solid the frame is and how well it pedals. And how it handles everthing from mellow pedals to crazy gnar lines. I definitely agree with all that info.

I am stoked about the head angle and the wheelbase adjustability that is available to me on this bike! The fork, 66ATA, with its adjustable travel compliments the bike very well. I can set the bike up to how and where I am going to ride.

In the park it is in the slackest position with the longest wheelbase. It is very stable at speed and is stable when in the air. I am somewhat suprised at how well I can jump this bike. I say this because when I first started riding it the back end of the bike felt heavier than the front of the bike. But after the first couple of jumps and drops on the DT that feeling went away and now it is just me, the rider, trying to figure out technique to do fancier tricks while jumping and dropping!
In the park the bike feels super solid under me. I have cracked and broken a few other bikes riding in the park. The DT feels indestuctable compared to those other bikes. Not that those other bikes were bad. There is no frame flex that I can detect and rear suspension is buttery smooth. There was a day in the park that I thought I felt some back end frame flex but it turns out that I needed to put more air in my rear tire. The tire was giving a wobbly feeling when I was preloading for jumps. Remeber I am a big guy!

When I am riding the DT on a pedaling ride I set the head angle to the middle setting and bring the wheelbase in either half way or to the shortest setting possible. I have pedaled with the HA setting at the steepest setting but I find the middle setting is best for what I ride outside of the park. The way I use the fork is to bring it to its lowest travel (140mm) for pedaling up and then raising it to its highest travel (180mm) for the down. Every now and then I will leave the travel at its lowest setting for the entire ride but my thought is I have the availability of all this travel so why not use it! (Why didn't Marz keep the 66ETA?!) As for the wheelbase settings I do like the shortest length for pedaling up, super tech trails and railing through corners but I find that when I get moving at a fast speed the short wheelbase makes the bike want to bounce around through the bumps/chop/chunder. So, I have been playing with the wheelbase lengths for pedaling to find a good middle ground to get the attributes for climbing and tech as well as for handling speed. It would seem the setting is somewhere around the middle.

There is one small issue that arose because of changing the wheelbase. The button head screws (or are they called bolts?) for the sliding dropouts stripped. I had read on a previous post of that happening so I was careful about loosening and tightening these screws but eventually they stripped out. This happened a day before my week long bike trip to Vancouver Island. When I contacted Noel he was very helpful in giving me the info I need to find replacement screws quickly. He even offered to mail me some. But I lucked out and found some at Canadian Tire in Squamish on the way to the ferry. The bonus is I now have screws that are a matching colour to my frame! Yes, I am a bike nerd! The new screws are the 6mm socket head type so there is much more puchase for the hex wrench.

I am not going to lie and say that I don't feel the weight of the bike when I am pedaling. Because I do feel the weight on extended climbs. Yes, I could have a lighter build but then I would be worried about those components giving out on me at the wrong time (is there ever a right time for things to break?). I am a tall and heavy person so all my bike builds are somewhat if not totally burly. The DT is my do everything bike - bike park and pedaling. Overall though I can't say it has taken any enjoyment out of my pedaling expereince. The weight is something that I am very much willing to over look. Here is a little rant: Why is the DH world now so obsessed with trying to get weights down to XC levels of weights? I understand that there isn't a need for bikes to be like tanks but when the weights are starting to be listed at 36lbs for a DH complete bike I feel, as a heavy giant, that I probably would destroy some of those bikes riding them in the park! And not because I am a hack.

The DT does pedal very well. I have been adjusting the propedal setting on the shock for when I am in the park (no propedal) and when I am pedaling (between 1 and 5 clicks). I find that I can run the propedal at 1 or 2 clicks for pedaling and have no real pedal bob happening. The DT pedals very well!

I have one other issue that has recently arisen. I realize that it is not directly related to the DT but aren't bikes the sum of their parts? My 66ATA has started to leak oil into the PAR chamber which is making the fork feel stiffer than it should. Up until this point in my history of using Marz forks I have never had an issue. Even with last year's forks! It is very disappointing. I know I should get it looked at right away but that would mean I won't have a bike to ride. And seeing that my job requires a bike I am somewhat at a loss as to how to sort this situation out.
I understand that Knolly is a separate company completely and I still have the utmost faith in Knolly but as I stated earlier I feel that a bike is the sum of its parts. Because if those parts don't work then the bike as a whole doesn't work. My feellings toward Marz definitely colours my opinion because I do have a history with Marz running back a few years. I was using the WC Rocco for three seasons - a new one every season - which promptly blew up on me. Every summer I would get them 'fixed' by Tom from Marz when he showed up at Crankworx or sent to Marz in North Van but that did not seem to work.

I would like to give mad props to Bryan at Knolly for his wheel building skills. Correct me if I am wrong Bryan but when I spoke with you before I picked up my DT on May 1 you told me you were building my wheels up. The build is amazing! I have ridden the DT hard as any bike should be ridden! I have jumped it, dropped it and ridden it through roots and rock gardens. The wheels have stayed very true. Currently the wheels do need a very slight trueing but it is unbelievable that they are still running straight after a guy of my size has thrashed them as I have! If you have any extra time outside of working for Knolly I would suggest starting a business as a wheelsmith!

To sum up, my overall impression of the DT is great! The bike delivers everything that is promised of it. It pedals uphill very well and holds its own in the craziest of line choices! Riding the DT has given me the confidence to push my skills to the next step. I realize that where I am at it is mostly a mind game of confidence but I feel that because I have great confidence in the DT that it is helping me push my riding.

I will leave you with some photos from my trip on Vancouver Island. My SO is also going to be included even though she rides a Kona Minxy. I do realize this is a Knolly forum but she deserves props no matter the forum. She rides almost all the stuff I ride and she is definitely better than me at the elevated skinnies! When we ride she lets me ride the gnar stuff first so she can pick the better line and make it look way smoother than I do!

My SO rolling a steep rock face at Hartland outside of Victoria
View attachment 467612
Me rolling a rock face at Broom Hill in Sooke
View attachment 467613
My SO hitting a gap at Broom Hill
View attachment 467614
My SO hitting a drop at the Zoo in Duncan
View attachment 467616
Me hitting a drop at the Zoo
View attachment 467611
Me cornering in Cumberland
View attachment 467619
Me dropping at the Zoo
View attachment 467617
Riding an elevated bridge at the Zoo
View attachment 467615
My SO dropping at the Zoo
View attachment 467618
And two of the best things in life. Although, my SO is way better than these will ever be!
View attachment 467620
I am about 6ft 4 and about 230lb. I fancy the large DT but was wondering what weight spring you use and exactly how much seatpost you use for pedalling purposes. Many thanks
 
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