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Building another front Hope pro / Arch wheel for 165 lbs XC use.
Can get a good deal on 2.0/1.8 spokes but like to go lighter.
Will the difference be noticeable?
Is the wheel really stronger with the heavier spokes?
 

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Schipperkes are cool.
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Straight gauge spokes are less elastic but are heavier.
Double butted spokes are more elastic, lighter. 2-1.7-2 "revolution spokes" are not a good idea for a 29" wheel. The bike will not ride straight.
I would still build anyone, over 150lbs, on 2mm straight gauge spokes. You could do a 1.8mm straight gauge spoke.
 

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banks said:
Straight gauge spokes are less elastic but are heavier.
Double butted spokes are more elastic, lighter. 2-1.7-2 "revolution spokes" are not a good idea for a 29" wheel. The bike will not ride straight.
I would still build anyone, over 150lbs, on 2mm straight gauge spokes. You could do a 1.8mm straight gauge spoke.
I would disagree with you sir. :) (Being the internet, I can't tell if you're joking or not.)
 

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banks, revolutions are 2.0 1.5 2.0. Comps are 2.0 1.8 2.0mm. The comps would be a great choice for a arch rim build. I'd do revo's but i'm 155lbs. It will "ride straight" that is for sure!

Back to topic, dt comps in the 2/1.8/2 format would be bomb proof with arch rims at your weight. If you built a set with revos you have to understand they won't take drops etc..Might not last as long esp. if you go with a 355 rim.

The min weight loose from going from comps to revo's might not save enough to really matter. Comps with arch rims will be set it and forget it. Super comps might be a good choice too. Weight is in the middle of revos and comps . Here is the dt info

http://www.dtswiss.com/getdoc/02e74b95-35e2-4408-9ee5-48a7c0d70dd9/TechnicalDatasheet.aspx

Wheelsmith make the 2.0/1.7/2.0?? Barely lighter then a dt comp?

Aerolights or cx-rays would be over kill for mtn use.

Off topic, do you have a hope rear hub? How do you like it? I've only ridden dt and kings but i'd like to try a set of hopes out. PM if you'd like.
 

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cx-rays, at 3 times the cost i just can't justify it. But if money wasn't a concern then yes it would be the way to go. I'm not 100% sure but i don't think 355's or archs can really handle the tension that cx-rays need. Even with normal spokes (comps) 355's are likely to crack at the nipple holes after a couple seasons, depending on usage.
 

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hellocook said:
2.0 1.7 2.0 maybe supercomps? I had great experiences with them at least on 26ers.

why cx-rays overkill? much stronger than revolutions at about same weight.
Supercomps are 2.0/1.7/1.8.

The main problem with CX Rays is that they typically need higher tensions to maintain stiffness, Stans rims run lower tensions, the 2 would be a poor combo.

To the OP, your best bet is probably supercomps.
 

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Either one can be built plenty strong.

I've built a 26" front wheel with Revolution spokes, and it was fine. You have to work with it a bit to deal with spoke wind-up. My current wheels have 14/15g (2.0/1.7mm) in the front (DT on a CR-18 rim) and 14/16 g (2.0/1.6mm) in the back (Wheelsmith "DB 14" and Mavic A719 rim). 14/16 comes out to 2.0mm/1.7m/2.0mm.

The 14/16g spoked rear wheel with 36 spokes has been bombproof. I wouldn't bother with thinner spokes than this. More $$$, more trouble with wind-up, and less durability. That said, the heavier 14/15g spokes wouldn't add a heck of a lot of weight- about 50 grams, I guess. I don't think DT spokes come in 14/16, so they don't appear on the chart. If you're building them yourself, you might have an easier time with 14/15g.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/spokes.asp
 

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banks said:
Straight gauge spokes are less elastic but are heavier.
Double butted spokes are more elastic, lighter. 2-1.7-2 "revolution spokes" are not a good idea for a 29" wheel. The bike will not ride straight.
I would still build anyone, over 150lbs, on 2mm straight gauge spokes. You could do a 1.8mm straight gauge spoke.
Gotta disagree with everything here...
I assume by "revolution spokes" you mean DT Revolutions, which are either 2.0/1.5/2.0 or 1.8/1.5/1.8. I laced VXCs to Halo SixDrives with Revos (2.0/1.5/2.0) a year ago for Texas XC racing and they have been bombproof... they ride 'straight' (are you kidding?), haven't needed truing once, and (are you ready for this?) I weigh 200 lbs.
Double butted spokes are hands down a better choice than straight gauge in ANY application, unless you can't afford the extra $30, which seems a little silly if you're buying a custom wheelset. If you care to argue that point, I'd be curious to see your rationale. No quality wheelbuilder that I know would take that position.
Aluminum spokes are designed not to strain (flex) at all because aluminum can not flex w/out cracking and ultimately failing. Therefore they give a much harsher ride than stainless spokes. In a blind (if that's possible) back-to-back riding test, I'd bet that 10 out of 10 riders would pick double butted stainless spokes over aluminum of any brand... sapim, mavic, or I9.
hellocook said:
what about aerolite Dts or X-rays?

would these build up better with stronger rims like arch instead of 355?
aerolites? on a mountain bike? really? uh... why?
 

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meltingfeather said:
aerolites? on a mountain bike? really? uh... why?
They're stronger than 14/16 DB (same weight) and build nicely at high tensions - the only thing not to like is the price (which is my reason for picking Revolutions instead of CX-Ray). An added bonus is that you can visibly see the wind-up without adding tape or whatever other tricks for round spokes.
 

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Vortechcoupe said:
cx-rays, at 3 times the cost i just can't justify it. But if money wasn't a concern then yes it would be the way to go. I'm not 100% sure but i don't think 355's or archs can really handle the tension that cx-rays need. Even with normal spokes (comps) 355's are likely to crack at the nipple holes after a couple seasons, depending on usage.
I've built more than a few wheelsets using CX-Rays to Arches, they tension and hold up fine. 355's are another story - lightweight spokes need higher tension, not an option with 355's.

CX-Rays are somewhat cost prohibitive when compared to DT Comps, which, as stated, are 2.0/1.8/2.0. You can build a lightweight, dependable wheelset with DT Comps.
 

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jmoote said:
They're stronger than 14/16 DB (same weight) and build nicely at high tensions - the only thing not to like is the price (which is my reason for picking Revolutions instead of CX-Ray). An added bonus is that you can visibly see the wind-up without adding tape or whatever other tricks for round spokes.
cool. could you point me to the link that shows a higher tensile strength for the aerolites? fyi: DT manufactures all of their spokes to the SAME tensile strength spec (1000-1100 N).
what does "build nicely at high tensions" mean?
if you're paying 3x for a spoke so you can see the wind up, you'll come out ahead by paying an experienced wheelbuilder... who won't need tape or other 'tricks' to build up a bombproof wheel with revos.

orion_cycles said:
because they are lighter than revolutions, and very strong.
lighter than revolutions? 8 grams for 64 spokes? tolerances will vary more than that.
very strong, as in as strong as any spoke DT makes? revolutions are just as strong. so other than a slight aerodynamic edge, which i'd say is moot on a mountain bike, what is worth paying 3x for?
 

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meltingfeather said:
cool. could you point me to the link that shows a higher tensile strength for the aerolites? fyi: DT manufactures all of their spokes to the SAME tensile strength spec (1000-1100 N).
what does "build nicely at high tensions" mean?
if you're paying 3x for a spoke so you can see the wind up, you'll come out ahead by paying an experienced wheelbuilder... who won't need tape or other 'tricks' to build up a bombproof wheel with revos.

lighter than revolutions? 8 grams for 64 spokes? tolerances will vary more than that.
very strong, as in as strong as any spoke DT makes? revolutions are just as strong. so other than a slight aerodynamic edge, which i'd say is moot on a mountain bike, what is worth paying 3x for?
I'm not trying to convince you. Call DT if you don't believe me. 5 seconds with google produced this:

"The company's spoke line also has new additions. The Aerolite is a new lightweight, butted and bladed spoke. The blackened spokes have a higher tensile strength that DT's Revolutions because of the cold working done during the blading process. But the technology carries a hefty price. One Aerolite spoke with alloy nipple retails for $3.50, compared to $1.50 for a Revolution spoke and nipple."

They are lighter. They are stronger. It's up to you to decide if it's worth the added $. I've had quite a few people requesting them, and seeing people drop a couple hundred bucks on ceramic bearings for decreased rolling resistance, it wouldn't surprise me if, even mtber's, are buying them for their aerodynamic properties.

Again, I'm not arguing for or against them, just stating that they ARE lighter than revolutions, they ARE stronger than revolutions, they ARE more aerodynamic than revolutions, and they most certainly ARE more expensive than revolutions.

peace:thumbsup:
 

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the spokes that you need to go with hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sapim cxrays
these are the strongest spokes on the market
they may be a bladed road spoke
but they have higher breaking points than any other spoke on the market period
they weigh 4.34 grams for a 260mm
 

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I want to hijack this thread since the OP didn't really include what kind of spokes he's planning on buying, I'm 180 lbs, on an XC 29er, should I go with DT Revos (2.0-1.5-2.0), Supercomps (2.0-1.7-1.8) or just regular Comps (2.0-1.8-2.0)? What are the benifits of each, and why shouldn't I lose the weight. I'll be building this wheel myself, with Hadley's and Mavic TN 719s, so the extra cost of one spoke over another isn't really a concern of mine; I want to do it right.
 

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orion_cycles said:
I'm not trying to convince you. Call DT if you don't believe me. 5 seconds with google produced this:

"The company's spoke line also has new additions. The Aerolite is a new lightweight, butted and bladed spoke. The blackened spokes have a higher tensile strength that DT's Revolutions because of the cold working done during the blading process. But the technology carries a hefty price. One Aerolite spoke with alloy nipple retails for $3.50, compared to $1.50 for a Revolution spoke and nipple."

They are lighter. They are stronger. It's up to you to decide if it's worth the added $. I've had quite a few people requesting them, and seeing people drop a couple hundred bucks on ceramic bearings for decreased rolling resistance, it wouldn't surprise me if, even mtber's, are buying them for their aerodynamic properties.
Could you provide a link? It's not that I don't believe you, but I couldn't find that quote after 10 minutes of searching. I'll buy it if it's true now. In the past all of DT's tensile strength specs were the same.
8g out of 278 is <3% (278g for Aerolites vs. 286g for Revos). I'd bet you that we could find a set of 64 Revos that are lighter than a set of 64 Aerolites, which would make your statement untrue. Have you ever weighed a part and compared it to the manufacturer's claim? Have you ever weighed two "identical" rims? My point is that while you may be technically correct that, going off of website claims, you can theoretically shave 8g from your bike for $128, manufacturing tolerance will probably negate that and 8g on a 29er mtb doesn't matter. Do you think it does?

Does it make sense to wear a TT helmet on a mtb? Maybe you're onto the next thing?
orion_cycles said:
Again, I'm not arguing for or against them, just stating that they ARE lighter than revolutions, they ARE stronger than revolutions, they ARE more aerodynamic than revolutions, and they most certainly ARE more expensive than revolutions.

peace:thumbsup:
Bottom line: recommending Aerolites for a 29er mtb over Revolutions to someone w/out any justification doesn't make sense. That was my point to start and that is still my point.
Revos are strong enough to build bombproof wheels that can stand up to XC and AM racing and loaded touring. They are as light as the lightest spokes in existance. Aerodynamics on a mountain bike don't matter. If you build a customer a mtb wheel with Aerolites and don't mention that they could have just as strong and dependable a wheel for more than $100 less, you're doing them a disservice, IMO. They might have read a couple of mtbr threads and think straight gauge is the way to go, or that CX-Rays are worth the money for performance. The smart ones trust real, experienced wheelbuilders to set them straight... and we do. The others use 355s laced to AMC hubs with Aerolites.
 
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