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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am thinking about trying Stans Olympic Disc rim to build up a race only wheelset. I weigh 185lbs and have been pretty light on my components over the years. At my weight should I stick with the heavier rims (385g) or would I be fine running the lighter weight rims? I am not hearing anyone complaining about the American Classic rims which weigh 350g.

I also posted this on the weight wennie board as below
Thanks,
KMan

Race wheelset build - questions and recommendations

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Back issues have finally force the sale of my single speed so I thought I might spend some of the money from the sale and finally buy myself a race specific wheelset (disc) for my Turner Flux. Currently have been using King ISO hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, alloy nipples & Mavic 3.1 ust rims (same build on my SS as well). Wheelset has been perfect! Not a single broken spoke, never once had to be trued and is still in perfect true/round. Weight is from what I recall about 1750grams for the set. Been running regular tires with goop.

I weigh 185 lbs, race expert XC and have been (knock on wood) very light on components over the years.

Looks like my best options are:
1. American Classic MTB350 - if I go with Sapim CX-rays weight should be around 1400 grams....but price looks to be about $750

2. Custom build
AMClassic hubs, Stans ZRT Olympic rim, CX-Rays - around same weight as the 350's I am "guessing this set would coust in the neighborhood of $600-$650?????
At my weight am I ok using Stans lighter 345g rim or should I stick with the 385g rim??

Also per http://www.wheelbuilder.com/thumbna...&deep=2&cid=129 it looks like the Sapim CX-Rays ($2.10) are less expensive in the US than the DT Swiss Aerolite ($2.75) so the sapims seem the most cost effective choice.

I did a search on the site to get some reviews and found some info, but it seemed to be a bit older.

Any thoughs, suggestions or something I may be way off base with?

Thanks,
KMan
 

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I love Pisgah
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My 2 cents.

You know everyones gonna say go with the 385s, but I say for "race only" and at your weight, the 347 Olympics will be ok, being about the same as a 717 in strength, dent resistance, etc. Theres plenty of riders at 185lb or more on those. This past season I raced(sometimes thrashing them) some Lazerlite(04 AC) hubs, supercomps, Olympics(344, 348gm), alum nips(1443gm), in 12hr endurances, rocky as hell Firewater 50 miler, 8-9 XC races, TTs, and training rides. I'm 175lb before gear. Been using'm on a FS and HT race bikes, alot of the time with low volumn tires(twisters). The rear was bent from a collision 300yrds into its very first race(and first ride ever for that matter) and has since suffered from very differing spoke tensions to make it track straight. Still going strong tho after all the above races. The front has yet to even need a truing. As well as the rear still being straight after its "fix"(wacking against wall/floor, etc:() done last spring.

I use yeller tape, no strips, goop(Karma DTC rear, Conti Explorer Pro front atm).

Mine were way way waaaay cheaper from Mike Garcia.
 

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I would suggest using a 385 in the rear and a 345 in the front. You would have a slightly stronger and stiffer rim in the rear where you need it and a lighter rim in the front were it does not take as much abuse.
 

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Rims

The 347 should be fine. I use them almost everday on a long travel bike over ruff terrain. In reality the diff. in weight is only 20 grams the 385's usally weigh 360-370 at most. Hardly enough to make a diffrence.
 

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Some suggestions....

(disclaimer: I build wheels and therefore have some biases in my opinion I'm sure.)

First off, I would not consider using Sapim CX-Ray spokes for a build on Stan's rims, unless you just like the way they look. The advantage to using a forged spoke like the CX-Ray is that it has better tensile strength than the round spoke it is made from. Stan's rims have a very low maximum tension limit of 85-95kg. This is well within the strength range of a cheaper round spokes of comparable weight like the DT Revolution, Wheelsmith XL14, or Sapim's own Lazer model. Buying an extremely expensive bladed spoke to get additional tension bearing capacity isn't practical on a wheel where you can't use the additional tension.

The American Classic rim is manufactured from a proprietary Niobium/Aluminum T-10 alloy which is stronger than the off-the-shelf 6061 T-6 Stan uses. Also the Am Classic rim is designed to be narrower and deeper than a standard MTB rim to maximize it's vertical stiffness. Even though these products are comparable in weight they aren't all that similar in design.

For us, the American Classic's 2005 hubs have been nothing short of a fiasco this year in terms of reliability. We have suffered through failure of poor quality bearings that had to be upgraded, inproperly manufactured end caps that caused the wheel to sit cock-eyed in the drop-outs, a recall on the hub mechanism, and even the upgraded bearings failing within 200 miles...and that is just so far this year. The design may be sound but the execution thus far has been pretty depressing for a hub in this price range. The 2005 model also has substantially smaller bearings than the earlier edition (still being sold as the WTB Lazer Disc Lite).

Despite being cheaper, the improved-for-2005 WTB Laser Disc Lite hubs are much more reliable and we have been having very good results from them this year. However, both the Am Classic and WTB hubs have minimal seals to reduce rolling resistance. As a result they are not as well-suited to extensive use in wet conditions as most other MTB hubs. It isn't like they dissolve if you splash them or they get rained on...but I would choose something else if you spend lots of time in wet/muddy/slushy/snowy conditions, do lots of deep stream crossings, etc.

If you DO ride the wet stuff a lot, I'd recommend the DT Swiss 240S as being a better choice for an ultra-light disc set-up. Sadly these are quite expensive, but they are better made than either the WTB or Am Classic products. Maybe save the bucks from the CX-Rays and put them into some DT hubs?

My suggestion on the rim would be dependent on where you live and what your race courses look like. If it relatively smooth stuff and you spend your time on the ground then I would try the 350g rim and consider bracing it up with a stiffer spoke, ideally DT's Supercomp model which uses stronger 15 gauge aluminum nipples.

Build like that with the WTB hubs should be just under $500 shipped. DT 240s would run about six and a quarter (thanks to the %#[email protected] exchange rate with Europe).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mike - Thanks for the info - More.....

Mike,
Thanks for your info it is always appreciated especiall since you would be building the wheelset for me!

So are you saying the American Classic rims are "stronger" (notice I did not say better) than Stans olympic rim?

Since Stans rims require to be built with a lower spoke tension does this mean the wheelset will be less durable? What does building with a lower spoke tension due to a build quality??

Which would create a stronger and more durable build (removing hubs from the equation): (or will they be pretty equal in tearms of strength)
1. AC350 wheelset using the CX-Ray spokes
or
2. Stans Olympic rim using your recommendation of DT Revolution, Wheelsmith XL14, or Sapim's own Lazer model

I guess I would need to decide which rim I want to use. Using the American Classic I would also need to run Stans 38 g rim strip which would now bring the weight up to the same as Stans 385g rim that does not need the strip.

Also I am absolutely nervious about running the AC hubs due to past (and probably current) quality issues, but I really do not want to spring for more expensive hubs. As I mentioned this is a race wheelset only which would see only about a dozen rides a year.

KMan

bianchi4me said:
(disclaimer: I build wheels and therefore have some biases in my opinion I'm sure.)

First off, I would not consider using Sapim CX-Ray spokes for a build on Stan's rims, unless you just like the way they look. The advantage to using a forged spoke like the CX-Ray is that it has better tensile strength than the round spoke it is made from. Stan's rims have a very low maximum tension limit of 85-95kg. This is well within the strength range of a cheaper round spokes of comparable weight like the DT Revolution, Wheelsmith XL14, or Sapim's own Lazer model. Buying an extremely expensive bladed spoke to get additional tension bearing capacity isn't practical on a wheel where you can't use the additional tension.

The American Classic rim is manufactured from a proprietary Niobium/Aluminum T-10 alloy which is stronger than the off-the-shelf 6061 T-6 Stan uses. Also the Am Classic rim is designed to be narrower and deeper than a standard MTB rim to maximize it's vertical stiffness. Even though these products are comparable in weight they aren't all that similar in design.

For us, the American Classic's 2005 hubs have been nothing short of a fiasco this year in terms of reliability. We have suffered through failure of poor quality bearings that had to be upgraded, inproperly manufactured end caps that caused the wheel to sit cock-eyed in the drop-outs, a recall on the hub mechanism, and even the upgraded bearings failing within 200 miles...and that is just so far this year. The design may be sound but the execution thus far has been pretty depressing for a hub in this price range. The 2005 model also has substantially smaller bearings than the earlier edition (still being sold as the WTB Lazer Disc Lite).

Despite being cheaper, the improved-for-2005 WTB Laser Disc Lite hubs are much more reliable and we have been having very good results from them this year. However, both the Am Classic and WTB hubs have minimal seals to reduce rolling resistance. As a result they are not as well-suited to extensive use in wet conditions as most other MTB hubs. It isn't like they dissolve if you splash them or they get rained on...but I would choose something else if you spend lots of time in wet/muddy/slushy/snowy conditions, do lots of deep stream crossings, etc.

If you DO ride the wet stuff a lot, I'd recommend the DT Swiss 240S as being a better choice for an ultra-light disc set-up. Sadly these are quite expensive, but they are better made than either the WTB or Am Classic products. Maybe save the bucks from the CX-Rays and put them into some DT hubs?

My suggestion on the rim would be dependent on where you live and what your race courses look like. If it relatively smooth stuff and you spend your time on the ground then I would try the 350g rim and consider bracing it up with a stiffer spoke, ideally DT's Supercomp model which uses stronger 15 gauge aluminum nipples.

Build like that with the WTB hubs should be just under $500 shipped. DT 240s would run about six and a quarter (thanks to the %#[email protected] exchange rate with Europe).
 

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KMan said:
Mike,
Thanks for your info it is always appreciated especiall since you would be building the wheelset for me!

So are you saying the American Classic rims are "stronger" (notice I did not say better) than Stans olympic rim?

Since Stans rims require to be built with a lower spoke tension does this mean the wheelset will be less durable? What does building with a lower spoke tension due to a build quality??

Which would create a stronger and more durable build (removing hubs from the equation): (or will they be pretty equal in tearms of strength)
1. AC350 wheelset using the CX-Ray spokes
or
2. Stans Olympic rim using your recommendation of DT Revolution, Wheelsmith XL14, or Sapim's own Lazer model

I guess I would need to decide which rim I want to use. Using the American Classic I would also need to run Stans 38 g rim strip which would now bring the weight up to the same as Stans 385g rim that does not need the strip.

Also I am absolutely nervious about running the AC hubs due to past (and probably current) quality issues, but I really do not want to spring for more expensive hubs. As I mentioned this is a race wheelset only which would see only about a dozen rides a year.

KMan
I'll stay out of the rim/hub debate other than to say that if you want to convert them to tubeless, the AC rims will need the standard rim strips that are about 52g each. Since the inner rim cavity is more narrow than most rims, you will need to lubricate the rim strips with soapy water or something similar for easier installation.
 

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Master of the Face Plant
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stans

I have the 347 gram rims with white industry hubs and DT swiss spokes. They were built by Dave at speedreams. I am 200 pounds and I ride them every week on an NRS composite. They are still as true as the day I installed them after over 1000 miles and some pretty hard hits. I don't think you can lose either way but keep in mind the builder makes the wheel and Dave is a great builder. If you get a poor buildup any wheel is gonna suck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK - How's this...

I know the chance I am taking with AC hubs - but I think that is the route I am going to go.
I can also see your point with using CX-Ray spokes. You built me a corss wheelset last year using a combo of Wheelsmith AE15/XE14 spokes. I like the aethetic looks of bladed spokes and the extra durability so I think I will go that route again with this build.

Stans Olympic rims 350g front & 380g rear
American Classic Disc hubs - silver
Wheelsmith XE14 spokes - silver- Combo with AE15? (Wheelsmith says the XE14 is more durable)
Blue Alloy nipples

Remember I weigh aroud 185lbs so I would be nervous using 2.0 x 1.5 x 2.0 spokes

KMan
 
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