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I dig trails!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am wondering if the a 145mm Manitou Nixon is too big for an 04 HollowPoint?

The Nixon is a low height long travel fork. My current Manitou Black 120 has an Axle to Crown of 490mm and a Nixon has a max AC of 518mm, which is a difference of 1.1 inches. By comparison, a Fox Vanilla & Manitou Minute have an AC of 505mm for a difference with my current fork of .59 inches.

So the question is, will the 1.1 inches of added height risk frame damage? Or be out of the parameters of the frame (a lot or a little)?

The 04 HP has a headtube angle of 71 degrees (using a mystery fork). KevinB posted that his HT is about 70 degrees with a Fox Vanilla 130. My guess is that with Nixon the HT angle would be ~69 degrees. I would be happy with a 69 degree HT angle.

Thanks,

Mr. P
 

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OldTeen
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Don't know about risk of frame damage, but going to that size fork would change the effective HT angle. Your choice if this is good or bad. FWIW- I have an 03 HP (19") with an adjustable fork (80-108mm) which I set to about 85mm for most riding (aggressive XC). Going to 108mm is too slack for me.
 

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Mr.P said:
I am wondering if the a 145mm Manitou Nixon is too big for an 04 HollowPoint?

The Nixon is a low height long travel fork. My current Manitou Black 120 has an Axle to Crown of 490mm and a Nixon has a max AC of 518mm, which is a difference of 1.1 inches. By comparison, a Fox Vanilla & Manitou Minute have an AC of 505mm for a difference with my current fork of .59 inches.

So the question is, will the 1.1 inches of added height risk frame damage? Or be out of the parameters of the frame (a lot or a little)?

The 04 HP has a headtube angle of 71 degrees (using a mystery fork). KevinB posted that his HT is about 70 degrees with a Fox Vanilla 130. My guess is that with Nixon the HT angle would be ~69 degrees. I would be happy with a 69 degree HT angle.

Thanks,

Mr. P
I'm going to try out a BLACK 80 SPV with axle-crown of 450. The two bikes would look interesting next to each other.
 

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I dig trails!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ashwinearl said:
I'm going to try out a BLACK 80 SPV with axle-crown of 450. The two bikes would look interesting next to each other.
LOL. No kidding.

I think you will like the SPV for racing. Give some time to try different combinations of settings, I took about 6 months to settle in on a set up.

I converted an old MTB to singlespeed and it has changed how I ride the geary, a lot more stand and mashing. And I am having a lot more fun on the ups now. The SPV helps a lot in that regard.

It also helps with brake dive, cornering consistency and fork height on descents.

Mr. P
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OldTeen said:
Don't know about risk of frame damage, but going to that size fork would change the effective HT angle. Your choice if this is good or bad. FWIW- I have an 03 HP (19") with an adjustable fork (80-108mm) which I set to about 85mm for most riding (aggressive XC). Going to 108mm is too slack for me.
Interesting. Makes me rethink this. I can do 90mm (RTWD fork) and I feel it is too steep. 100 is good tho.

One of the 04 HPs came with a 130mm Minute so the frame should handle an A-C height of 505mm and the Nixon would be 13 more mm. Doesn't seem like much but it could be.

"They" say that 20 more mm is good for 1 degree slacker HT.

I dig the fork I have now, I just want to try a bit more slack, I don't care about the amount of travel just the HT angle. I rode a buddie's Kona Dawg and it had a 68 degree angle and I enjoyed how it carved around turns. Kinda layed over.

I have serious upgraditis...

But hey, it beats a crack habit.

Mr. P
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
_dw said:
The HP will ride great with the Nixon on there. There shouldn't be a structural problem with the 518 AC fork, and you will end up with about a 69.5 HA. It will make for a very nice trail bike.

Dave
Thanks dw, that was the vote of confidence that I needed.

I am going to get the RTWD version so I can ride the fork at lower levels for XC stuff anyway and when the going gets steep, roll out the front end carpet.

Mr. P
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ashwinearl said:
I'm going to try out a BLACK 80 SPV with axle-crown of 450. The two bikes would look interesting next to each other.
Here is a pic of a 5.5 with a Nixon. The 5.5 has a similar head tube angle to the 04 HP, this is what got me thinking in this direction. You can see that the bike is not "choppered out", nor out of proportion.

My plan is to get an RTWD with coil so I can ride at lower height for XC, get coil performance and then add SPV for the damping.

Mr. P
 

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kneecap
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Mr.P,
Did you put the nixon on your hollowpoint? If so, what length travel do you use more often, & how does the bike handle with a longer fork? Any trouble with steep climbs? I'm running a reba u-turn, & even @ 115 mm still feels like I could use more.
I have an 03 Z1SL (130mm fixed travel) I'd like to try, but kinda a hassle to swap forks due to running a Hopey steering damper. Your inputs might save me some time wasted, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
kneecap said:
Mr.P,
Did you put the nixon on your hollowpoint? If so, what length travel do you use more often, & how does the bike handle with a longer fork? Any trouble with steep climbs? I'm running a reba u-turn, & even @ 115 mm still feels like I could use more.
I have an 03 Z1SL (130mm fixed travel) I'd like to try, but kinda a hassle to swap forks due to running a Hopey steering damper. Your inputs might save me some time wasted, thanks.
Hey Kneecap,

no fork yet. I am also looking at a Pike. I will be waiting a few more months to pick up a new fork (tho deals are pretty stellar right now) as drivetrain costs are hitting me right now.

The plan is to run the fork at 115mm for local foothill XC stuff then run 145mm for the downhill runs and the Sierra. But as always that is thoery until I put the fork on and see how I adjust to it.

If you put the Zoke 130mm on, let me know how you like it. The Zoke probably has a similar A-C hight as the Nixon at 145mm.

Mr. P
 

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trail "cleaner"
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exact set-up as mine

kneecap said:
Mr.P,
Did you put the nixon on your hollowpoint? If so, what length travel do you use more often, & how does the bike handle with a longer fork? Any trouble with steep climbs? I'm running a reba u-turn, & even @ 115 mm still feels like I could use more.
I have an 03 Z1SL (130mm fixed travel) I'd like to try, but kinda a hassle to swap forks due to running a Hopey steering damper. Your inputs might save me some time wasted, thanks.
i've got an '03 Z1 SL on my '04 hollowpoint and absolutely love it! The increase axle to crown height from the original Fox Talas 125 has made the descents much more manageable and I haven't noticed any weakness on the steep climbs. The front end is still tracking straight. That's with the ETA off :) I'd say go for it!
 

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Mr P did you try the the nixon on your hollowpoint and how did they go?I have a Marz all mountain 1 on the way 130-150mm and are currently useing a Marz Marathon XC at 120mm which works fine i wonder how thet will go at 130mm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
bigdamo said:
Mr P did you try the the nixon on your hollowpoint and how did they go?I have a Marz all mountain 1 on the way 130-150mm and are currently useing a Marz Marathon XC at 120mm which works fine i wonder how thet will go at 130mm?
Yes indeed. I haven't done full testing as the season is not yet on. But so far it is stellar.

The bike feels much more controlled at speed.

Climbing is the same from my previous Manitou 120mm fork, except very steep seated climbs take more attention or wheelie. So far normal climbs feel unaffected and standing climbs are the same.

I'll be posting a full review soon.

I'd describe it as very worthwhile.

Mr. P
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I now have a few more rides under my belt that are a bit more challenging. The Nixon TPC Comp is stellar on a trail with smallish bumps - it just floats. The new position makes technicals seem much easier. I feel like the speed has slowed down as I don't feel at the cusp of my limits - I always feel like I have a little room to blow it, and recover. Rather than blow it and fell the pain as I did before.

But the HTA slacks out from 71* to 69.4* (using Photoshop measurements)

The change from Black 120 to Nixon 145 has made my riding faster and more secure. I feel like I can eat up anything. I am also a part time SSer, and have adopted the stand and mash for the HP. I set the low speed compression on the fork to max and I feel like SPV at about minimum. Which is where I set it anyways, the bonus is turning it down for the downs. Great upgrade.

A few downsides for me: The BB is higher which I am not so jazzed about. And the Nixon is less jazzed about high speed square bumps - but that may be my settings I want to play with the rebound some more then noodle the damper oil as I have it a bit on the high side right now.

Also I have 2" riser bars which makes the position a bit upright and wandery for steep uphills. I might mod the Comp level fork to a Rapid Travel version that would allow me to drop the fork by an inch. I haven't tested on technical ups yet.

I was able to demo a 36 on some slow, steep technical terrain, then follow up with my Nixon. In that terrain, I am missing nothing in the 36.

I also have the abilty to tune the high speed compression shim stack on my own, so if the high speed square bumps issues is beyond a knob twist or oil level, I can tweek the damping to fix it.

For me, it's been a worthwhile upgrade, a few tweaks and all will be golden.

Mr. P
 

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I dig trails!
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mr.P said:
Nixon is less jazzed about high speed square bumps - but that may be my settings
A follow up. The Nixon TPC rebound damper took a dump and I was only getting 75mm of travel to harsh bottom! No wonder those square bumps felt harsh at speed! A 2 minute call to Manitou and a new damper is on it's way to the LBS. I'll be riding it again this weekend.

Last Sunday's ride was with a Black 120 in the Nixon's place, and, boy, did I miss the slacker head angle. Turns were more twitchy with the 120 keeping my focusing my attention on steering, compared to the Nixon where I could rail into turns focusing on "flow" and any shizzle I want to add for bonus fun.

One last update after I rebuild the Nixon and give it a few weeks.

Mr. P
 
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