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on my 3rd wind...
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 14/15G DB spoke laced on 819 rim with CK ISO hub. I had it custom built by a reputable wheel builder. I wanted a tough/durable wheel w/o being too heavy on CK hub. The wheel bulider told me that DB spoke will be more durable since it allows the wheel to give and as a result it will stay true & last longer as well. I took his advice. I am almost happy with the wheel but I feel this wheel flex that I don't care for. It's on the same bike as the one crossmax xl was on. With crossmax xl, I never had this flex feel from the wheel. Since crossmax xl and 819 are same rim, am I feeling this sensation due to db spoke? Also, is it true that 14/15G spoke wheel is more durable than 14g straight spoke wheel but at the expense of wheel stiffness? If not so, I may have the wheel relaced with 14G spoke.

STH
 

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on my 3rd wind...
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
shiggy said:
Yes, it does make a more durable and a more flexible wheel.

You must be very large and/or ride REALLY hard to be able to feel the difference in stiffness.
Thx Shiggy for the quick reply. Now I have to decide which is more important to me. I may go with 14G straight spoke if it does not effect the longetivity of my CK hub...'cause rim is much cheaper.

Anywho, I only weigh 150lbs and I do enjoy charging technical terrain. I also tend to notice slightest setup diff on my bike (i.e. 2-3psi diff on tire pressure).

STH
 

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If you are that sensitive to changes even straight 14g spokes are going to ride differently than the Crossmax XL. It has fewer spokes and they are aluminum, not steel.

Many riders find your new setup to ride stiffer than the CM XL.
 

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on my 3rd wind...
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
shiggy said:
If you are that sensitive to changes even straight 14g spokes are going to ride differently than the Crossmax XL. It has fewer spokes and they are aluminum, not steel.

Many riders find your new setup to ride stiffer than the CM XL.
I do remmember my wheel my wheel builder telling that my new wheel won't be as stiff as my crossmax xl, however. He said even though crossmax is same rim as 819 and has less spoke count but spoke is made out of zicral aluminum. Crossmax xl has less spoke count ,24, verses 32 on new wheel but spoke is is made out aluminum not steel spoke so crosxxmax xl will be sitffer. I didn't think it would make that much diff but it does to me.

So you think if I relace the wheel 14G, I won't notice that much improvement in wheel stiffness or as equal to crossmax xl?

STH
 

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SingleTrackHound said:
I do remmember my wheel my wheel builder telling that my new wheel won't be as stiff as my crossmax xl, however. He said even though crossmax is same rim as 819 and has less spoke count but spoke is made out of zicral aluminum. Crossmax xl has less spoke count ,24, verses 32 on new wheel but spoke is is made out aluminum not steel spoke so crosxxmax xl will be sitffer. I didn't think it would make that much diff but it does to me.

So you think if I relace the wheel 14G, I won't notice that much improvement in wheel stiffness or as equal to crossmax xl?

STH
I do not know if or how much difference you would notice.

As I wrote before, some riders feel that the CM is less stiff than a wheel with 32 14/15 spokes.
 

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shiggy said:
I do not know if or how much difference you would notice.

As I wrote before, some riders feel that the CM is less stiff than a wheel with 32 14/15 spokes.
I would tend to agree, that wheel should be stiffer than the X-Max.

Larry
Mountain High Cyclery
 

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Is the spoke tension on your wheels sufficiently high and consistent? I agree with the others that your wheel shouldn't feel flexy compared to the Crossmax XLs, particularly at your weight. Most importantly check to see that there's decent tension on the non-drive side rear spokes.
 

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on my 3rd wind...
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
BipedZed said:
Is the spoke tension on your wheels sufficiently high and consistent? I agree with the others that your wheel shouldn't feel flexy compared to the Crossmax XLs, particularly at your weight. Most importantly check to see that there's decent tension on the non-drive side rear spokes.
I do know that CK hub are laced with less tension than other hubs due to their aluminum hub shell design. I read CK hub review in mtbr that some riders ran into trouble with CK hub when spoke tension was set to what was considered to be normal for other brand hub. Anywho, I wonder if my wheel builder took this into a consideration when buidling my wheel and used less tension than other brand.

I feel flex in both front and rear. Front, during slow techical situation or front wheel drop-in. Rear, also in slow technical riding but mostly in high speed cornering when I load the rear end and lean hard into apex. But the rear wheel flex could be coming from the frame rear end. I haven't replaced the rear pivot bearings in one and half year since I have sharing the ride time with other bikes I own.

I find that crossmax xl wheel to be a very tough and stiff wheel for sub 2000gram. I will check the tension on my CK wheel. However, I am somewhat reluctant to mess with spoke tension unless wheel needs truing.

STH
 

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SingleTrackHound said:
I do know that CK hub are laced with less tension than other hubs due to their aluminum hub shell design.

I find that crossmax xl wheel to be a very tough and stiff wheel for sub 2000gram. I will check the tension on my CK wheel. However, I am somewhat reluctant to mess with spoke tension unless wheel needs truing.

STH
Hate to be the one that breaks the news... MOST hubs out there are Aluminum hub shells. My WTB hubs, my Nuke Proof, Hayes (Hügi rebadged) and my Shimanon hubs are all aluminum hub shells.

I'd check tire pressure, skewer tension, and spoke tension as likely targets. If those fail... something isn't right. A good 14/15 wheel can be plenty stiff. Doubly so when with a good hub and rim.

Have you done a visual inspection to make sure there are not any cracks on the rim or hub. It's unlikely but would most definitely produce a 'soft spoke' feeling.

Good luck,

JmZ
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
JmZ said:
Hate to be the one that breaks the news... MOST hubs out there are Aluminum hub shells.

JmZ
You are correct. I meant to say is that CK aluminum hub shell is thiner than others. This is what I read in mtbr review when I deciding on the hub for the new wheel build. I don't know how true that is or what other brand is being compared to. Some riders had hub failure when spoke tension on CK was too high and pulled the alumininum shell away from bearings/internal.

STH
 

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SingleTrackHound said:
You are correct. I meant to say is that CK aluminum hub shell is thiner than others. This is what I read in mtbr review when I deciding on the hub for the new wheel build. I don't know how true that is or what other brand is being compared to. Some riders had hub failure when spoke tension on CK was too high and pulled the alumininum shell away from bearings/internal.

STH
I call BS on this one. I have never heard of a CK hub (not laced radial) that has had flange failure from spoke tensions in high but normally used ranges.

Also spoke tension, is it is anywhere in a function tension range - even on the low end of the scale -, has little, if any, affect on the stiffness of the wheel.

I suggest you find a new wheel builder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
shiggy said:
I call BS on this one. I have never heard of a CK hub (not laced radial) that has had flange failure from spoke tensions in high but normally used ranges.

Also spoke tension, is it is anywhere in a function tension range - even on the low end of the scale -, has little, if any, affect on the stiffness of the wheel.

I suggest you find a new wheel builder.
Maybe so. However, I read several CK review from mtbr that I had to keep that in mine. Yeah, one day, I will build my own wheel and dump my wheel builder. I can true and retension all my wheel right now but don't want to build my first wheel on ck hub. Damn thing is too expensive!

Luckly, I was able to have comeplete 819/CK wheel with black spokes & alloy nipples combo built for mid $500 from a reputable bike shop so I didn't mine.

Thx for the replies to all! My original question have been answered. 14/15g wheel is more durable but not as stiff as 14G straight gauge wheel. Now I just need to figure out why my 14/15g, 819/CK wheel feel flexier than my old wheelset (xmax xl).

STH
 

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shiggy said:
I call BS on this one. I have never heard of a CK hub (not laced radial) that has had flange failure from spoke tensions in high but normally used ranges.

Also spoke tension, is it is anywhere in a function tension range - even on the low end of the scale -, has little, if any, affect on the stiffness of the wheel.

I suggest you find a new wheel builder.
I have to agree with Shiggy here. I've never seen one fail. I've personally built hundreds of King hubs, and I definitely tend to run tensions on the high end of the spectrum, never had a single problem. I certainly don't think they require using lower tension than any of their competitors.

Larry
Mountain High Cyclery
[email protected]
 
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