[p0Ke'[email protected]]

Pardon if I missed a previous thread, but my LBS is touting Shimano 10-speed drivetrains which I thought might only be beneficial for road bikes. The newer Shimano 10-speed chains seem obviously thinner (??and weaker)as one broke while trying it on my 9-speed cassette! and they promptly replaced it with a SRAM PC-99. So the question remains....why do we need 10-speed drivetrains on mtn-bikes; is it just market hype to combat competition or patent expiration; is it the "next logical step"; what about increased cassette wear and ghost shifting problems; and what gear ratios will be available(11-32, or 12-34, or others?). I guess soon we'll have a computer chip in the rear DR.

 

[willtsmith_nwi]

The next step ...

Pardon if I missed a previous thread, but my LBS is touting Shimano 10-speed drivetrains which I thought might only be beneficial for road bikes. The newer Shimano 10-speed chains seem obviously thinner (??and weaker)as one broke while trying it on my 9-speed cassette! and they promptly replaced it with a SRAM PC-99. So the question remains....why do we need 10-speed drivetrains on mtn-bikes; is it just market hype to combat competition or patent expiration; is it the "next logical step"; what about increased cassette wear and ghost shifting problems; and what gear ratios will be available(11-32, or 12-34, or others?). I guess soon we'll have a computer chip in the rear DR.

The REAL next step are internally geared hubs like Rohloffs Speedhub (14 gears on one shifter). Getting the gears inside a hub protects them from the elements and eliminates ALL adjustment problems. One need only change the oil every year.

As far as I'm concerned, 10 speeds would only be useful if they increase the difference between the top and bottom gear. More intermediate gears really don't help. It's just more shifting to get to the gear range you want.

Aside from that, the "real" action seems to be in shifter technology. Shimano is pushing their funky "flippy-shifty" stuff that eliminates the ease of buttons for a brake lever that requires unnatural wrist movements.

 

[bulC]

marketing driven of course

7 sp. was fine. 8 sp. is perfect. 9 sp. is problem-plagued crap. 10 is just counting on the continued stupidity of the consuming public, which is a pretty good bet.
It's like all the recreational newbie roadies pedaling around with a 53/11 high gear, with a cogset that costs close to $200 to replace when it wears out prematurely because the cogs are so thin.

 

[B R H]

Agree that 8 speed is perfect for MTB.

I went "backwards" from 9 speed to 8 speed and have been much happier since. 8 speed weighs less and has fewer troubles shifting when dirty. The gear range and steps are just perfect for me with an 11-30 cassette and 44-34-22. Availability of cassettes may be an issue in the future, especially if you want the lighter stuff (XTR).

Don't own a road bike yet though so I can't comment on that except to say that it seems that 10 speed offers nothing over 9 since the overall range is the same. Maybe the smaller increments are useful on the road, but I find anything less than about 15% just plain irritating on a MTB.

 

[willtsmith_nwi]

The effect of smaller increments ...

I went "backwards" from 9 speed to 8 speed and have been much happier since. 8 speed weighs less and has fewer troubles shifting when dirty. The gear range and steps are just perfect for me with an 11-30 cassette and 44-34-22. Availability of cassettes may be an issue in the future, especially if you want the lighter stuff (XTR).

Don't own a road bike yet though so I can't comment on that except to say that it seems that 10 speed offers nothing over 9 since the overall range is the same. Maybe the smaller increments are useful on the road, but I find anything less than about 15% just plain irritating on a MTB.

The effect of smaller increments are extra shifts to get to the gear you really want. On a thumbshifter that means 2 swings to get 4 clicks instead of just one for 3 clicks.

I could imagine that since roadbiking is such an uber-aerobic activitity that maintaining a stable pedal cadence is about the most important thing in the world. Smaller increments might help to get that one gear that keeps your legs moving at their most efficient tempo. They also have less need for aggressive shifting since the only obstacle in rode riding are hills that can be seen and anticipated well in advance.

 

[Shayne]

I think the MTB world needs to get back to closer ratios

The effect of smaller increments are extra shifts to get to the gear you really want. On a thumbshifter that means 2 swings to get 4 clicks instead of just one for 3 clicks.

I could imagine that since roadbiking is such an uber-aerobic activitity that maintaining a stable pedal cadence is about the most important thing in the world. Smaller increments might help to get that one gear that keeps your legs moving at their most efficient tempo. They also have less need for aggressive shifting since the only obstacle in rode riding are hills that can be seen and anticipated well in advance.

I would be happy if Shimano, SRAM, or whoever went back to the spec of 10-15 yrs ago and the 12-28 cassette was the norm. I dont have a problem buying a Dura-Ace cassette and throwing it on my bike as the quality/durability is the same but I think that gearing should be a standard option.
Well to tell you the truth I ride Campy on all but one of my MTBs so I have 12-26 or 11-24 cogsets but you get the idea.
I think if 10 spd does come to MTB land that the extra cog should fall in the middle of the spread and not widen the ratios anymore. Spinning and smooth jumps between gears (ie 1 or 2 teeth) are just as important on the trails.
And to speak to the durability I have run 10spd on a 'cross bike for 3 yrs now and have had no issues with it. It has been through more mud, water, snow, and crap than any of my MTB's have seen. I dont know how well Shimano's 10 spd parts will be though since their overall quality/durability has been on a downward slide ofer the past few years.