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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I currently 8-speed drivetrain with standard HG rear hub, Shimano Acera 8 speed derailleur and matching shifter.
I replaced original Shimano 11-34t cassette with Sunrace 11-40t and installed Wolftooth derailleur hanger extender. Shifting is OK, but I think there is not much clearance between 40t cog and derailleur. There is pressure on the shifter when I try to switch to 40t gear and I can see that derailleur is trying to bend a very short piece of chain and probably applies excessive side pressure on it. New Shimano chain snapped after 50 miles of riding. Maybe because of my poor shifting skills or maybe my derailleur setup is not good. I can probably play more with extender mounting angle. Maybe try increasing chain size by 2 links... or I can just change the drivetrain.

I want to switch to a derailleur that is designed to work with 11-42t cassette (or wider) without extender. It kind of pushes me into 10 speed range. I could not find any decent wide range 8-speed systems. After some research I found these drivetrains that should work for me:

1) Microshift Advent X 10-speed derailleur, matching Advent X 10-speed shifter and Microshift Advent X 10-speed 11-48t cassette .
Good reviews. Very wide range. The cassette is not easy to find so I might use some other 10-speed cassette like Shimano or Sunrace. They have 10-42t range and should work with Advent X derailleur, but Microshift strongly recommends 46 or 48t lower cog for best performance.

2) Shimano M6000-GS derailleur (10-speed, 11-42t range), matching Shimano shifter and Shimano Deore 11-42t cassette. Range is wide enough for me. LBS has all the parts in stock.

Any recommendations? Are there any other 10-speed wide range Shimano drivetrains I should consider?
Also not sure which 10-speed chain to buy. I was considering KMC X10 for both setups.


PS: I am not considering conversion to 11 or 12 speed.
 

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Why are you dead set against 11 speed? The major 11 speed systems are compatible with HG hubs, and you can get up to a 51t cassette. I converted my old 3x9 ride to 1x11 a couple of months ago.

There's plenty of info here about drivetrain upgrades. Use the forum search.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Why are you dead set against 11 speed? The major 11 speed systems are compatible with HG hubs, and you can get up to a 51t cassette. I converted my old 3x9 ride to 1x11 a couple of months ago.

There's plenty of info here about drivetrain upgrades. Use the forum search.
I thought that I need different hub for 11 speed cassette. Not true ?
 

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Universal cycles had Microshift advent x cassettes in stock as of a week or two ago when I got mine. I think I paid $57 or something like that.

I went microshift simply because the range, and cost of consumables. Personally I find it hard to justify spending $230 on a GX eagle cassette, when the $57 microshift cassette covers so much of the same range.

And, in comparison to Shimano Deore 11 speed, it’s again, very similar range, and half the price, and half the weight.

I haven’t installed it yet, as it’s waiting for a frame. But I’m thinking it should be at least as good as the NX 11 speed I’m used to :)
 

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What model acera derailleur do you have, M3000 or is it an older one? Realise this is a bit of a tangent, sounds like potentially your chain is too short assuming you've screwed the b tension in enough for the jockey wheel to clear the largest cog. I say that as I have a Alivio M4000 derailleur working fine with a 11-40 cassette, however if you have an older model acera then possibly it's not the right size like you say.

What's your overall goal, least cost to get a wider range drivetrain, want a bigger range, want a more sturdy drivetrain? Possibly a smaller chainring could meet most of your needs??
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Universal cycles had Microshift advent x cassettes in stock as of a week or two ago when I got mine. I think I paid $57 or something like that.

I went microshift simply because the range, and cost of consumables. Personally I find it hard to justify spending $230 on a GX eagle cassette, when the $57 microshift cassette covers so much of the same range.

And, in comparison to Shimano Deore 11 speed, it’s again, very similar range, and half the price, and half the weight.

I haven’t installed it yet, as it’s waiting for a frame. But I’m thinking it should be at least as good as the NX 11 speed I’m used to :)
Thanks! I agree, but Shimano is just a well known higher end brand and it feels like a safer choice. I don't mind trying Microshift and I am also OK with paying 1.5x more for a mid level Shimano setup (but not 3x more).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What model acera derailleur do you have, M3000 or is it an older one? Realise this is a bit of a tangent, sounds like potentially your chain is too short assuming you've screwed the b tension in enough for the jockey wheel to clear the largest cog. I say that as I have a Alivio M4000 derailleur working fine with a 11-40 cassette, however if you have an older model acera then possibly it's not the right size like you say.

What's your overall goal, least cost to get a wider range drivetrain, want a bigger range, want a more sturdy drivetrain? Possibly a smaller chainring could meet most of your needs??
I did not change B-tension at all. Only installed hanger extender. I will try that and longer chain before changing drivetrain. Just want to know my options. Also the shifting is slow and unreliable on middle cogs and I cannot fix it with cable tension adjustment. I thought maybe it is time to update drivetrain.
Not 100% sure which derailleur I have, but it looks just like Acera M360. The bike was purchased around 2012 and wiki says that M3000 came out later.
Overall goal... I want to use single chainring (currently 42t) and still have some lower gears. Large jumps between gears is OK. Reliable shifting would be nice. Sturdy is always good, but I am not even sure which setup can be considered sturdy.
 

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Not sure what counts as sturdy for drivetrains. But the Microshift advent X cassette is also available in an all steel version, which is both cheaper, and probably lasts much longer than most other cassettes, if that matters at all.

The deore 11 speed was high on my list. But I couldn’t find it in stock anywhere, for months. So I decided to try something else this time around.
 

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I've had 11 speed Deore and 10 speed Advent X. Both are great drivetrains. Advent is cheaper and probably around 200g lighter. Shimano "feels" like it shifts quieter/smoother but the difference is more nuanced than drastic. Range on both are great.

Deore opens up using the older 11 speed XT shifter which is one of my favorite shifters with the instant release and double upshifts and 4x downshifts. Those can still be had new for less than $60 and is a significant improvement over either the Deore or Advent shifter. I might actually like the Advent shifter over the Deore if we don't want to include the XT shifter into the equation. Between Deore and Advent X I would get whatever was in stock. If both are in stock and budget isn't an issue then Deore since that opens up using the XT shifter.
 

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1x11 Box One systems are like $200 on sale. Better than MicroShift and easily on the level of Deore. I had MicroShift 1x9 and it was solid amd bulletproof. Nothing fancy but it worked. Upgraded to Box One 1x11 and wow! Loved it and got that 51 ring for climbing. New bike came with Deore 12 speed and other than the Hyperglide+ on the Shimano the Box One was almost as nice at about half the cost and much lighter than the MicroShift which is heavy. Box 1x11 works great on HG hubs.
 

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For the least number of changes you could realistically just get a suitable shimano 10 speed derailleur like the deore M6000 and a suitable 8 speed cassette (if you're not adverse to ordering from Aliexpress/ebay something like this). You might need a new chain if the current one isn't long enough. Shifter will still work fine so only need 2 or 3 new parts.

Actually might need to double check cassette capacity on the M6000, it will happily run a 42cog so I assume a 46 would be ok but maybe see if there's other internet comments that confirm it's capacity is ok.
 

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Nice. Now I have too much choice. :ROFLMAO:
Shimano has 11sp Deore M5100, SLX M7000 and XT M8000. Not sure if higher model number means better...
I think the derailleurs aren’t wildly different, not enough for me to pay XT/R prices. The cassettes do get considerably lighter when you step into XT and the shifter starts to do fancy things like double up shifts (XT) with more force on the levers. The mech for 11spd isn’t terribly more for XT. Not compared to the cost of the bike. That’s the direction I’ll go: SLX derailleur, XT cassette, XT or SLX shifter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
For the least number of changes you could realistically just get a suitable shimano 10 speed derailleur like the deore M6000 and a suitable 8 speed cassette (if you're not adverse to ordering from Aliexpress/ebay something like this). You might need a new chain if the current one isn't long enough. Shifter will still work fine so only need 2 or 3 new parts.

Actually might need to double check cassette capacity on the M6000, it will happily run a 42cog so I assume a 46 would be ok but maybe see if there's other internet comments that confirm it's capacity is ok.
It would be great if I could use M6000 derailleur with my current 8 speed cassette and 8 speed shifter, but I don't think it is possible. Lower cog size is not a problem. I have 11-40t cassette and M6000-GS has capacity for 42t or even more.
But M6000 is a Dyna-Sys derailleur with shift ratio 1.2:1 while my 8 speed Acera derailleur has 1.7:1 ratio.
Cable pull for 8 speed shifter (2.8mm) is smaller than for 10 speed MTB shifter (3.4mm).
So with my current 8 speed setup the chain moves 2.8mm x 1.7 = 4.8mm per 1 shifter click.
With mixed M6000 + 8sp shifter setup, chain will move 2.8mm x 1.2 = 3.4mm per 1 shifter click.
I don't think it will shift correctly.
I found these numbers online. Not sure if they are correct, but many people say 10 and 11 speed Shimano MTB derailleurs will not work with Shimano 8 speed shifters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thank you guys! A lot of very useful information!

Another question...
Anybody knows if 8 speed systems in general are considered stronger (more durable) than 10 ? And 10sp is sturdier than 11sp? or maybe it is more important to select heavier components (steel vs aluminum) for durability?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I checked my 8 speed setup again and compared to a couple of other bikes with Shimano drivetrains. Actually, with hanger extender there is plenty of clearance between derailleur and 40t cog. My chain snapping issue is probably not related to derailleur at all. But unstable shifting between gears 5 and 6 is likely caused by the extender. The distance between derailleur (jockey wheel) and cogs 5 - 8 is very big. I will try to remove extender and use longer B-tension screw. It might work better.
I still want to change drivetrain some time later so all your advices are very useful! Thanks again.
 
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